Challenge-II-03

Denniz

Where's my breakfast?
Hall of Fame Staff
Retired Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
11,102
Location
Dallas
[IMG=right]http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/images/greatgeneral.jpg[/IMG]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we are running series of games called the Hall of Fame Challenge Series. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings of one of the games will be counted towards the Challenge.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:
  • Victory Condition: Diplomatic (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
  • Difficulty: ANY
  • Starting Era: Ancient
  • Map Size: Standard
  • Map Type: Inland Sea
  • Speed: Epic
  • Required: One City Challenge, No Vassal States
  • Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians, Random Personalities, Permanent Alliances
  • Civ: Germany (Bismark)
  • Opponents: Must include America (Franklin Roosevelt), China (Qin Shi Huang), France (Louis XIV), Inca (Huayna Capac), Rome (Augustus Caesar), Russia (Stalin)
  • Version: 3.19.003
  • Date: 10th May to 10th September 2010
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.
 
Hereditary Rule was my key to this one. Huayna, and Louis favor HR. Qin Shi Huang favors Bureaucracy, also easy for an OCC. Stalin is your typical psycho idiot, state property shouldn't interfere with Roosevelt's preference for Free Market since he won't be likely to run it. Roosevelt is generally peaceful, but can be really hated. Augustus Caesar favors representation. He may be the one you want to run away with population due to representation his lack of favorite civic diplo points.

I added Pacal and Joao for their preference of Hereditary Rule. I love Joao, but if he ends up next to you, he may run away with the population and that would not be good.

My start had three hills pigs, one gold on a river, a lot of forests, just under half river tiles, one flood plain and stone in the third culture expansion ring. I eventually picked up corn and ivory too. Settling on stone or marble would be ideal, for the hammer boost and potential wonder spam. I would avoid the Great Wall to prevent Great Spy poison. Since 6 of my 8 opponents were industrious, I figured the wonders would go quick and I didn't try for any of them. In my game, I popped BW, so I could have tried to chop a wonder, but the forests are too precious for that.

I did not use random events, but did use goody huts. I lucked into AH and BW from huts. No copper or horses in BFC. I researched archery for Barb/fog busting. I did have some barb problems and had my gold and on of my pigs pillaged. I whipped a library and one archer (due to barb pressure). I researched Writing, then Alphabet. I got my first GS around 1200 BC. I was able to pick up most early techs by trading writing. I held Alphabet for a while. And then I researched Aesthetics. I eventually traded Alphabet for Mathematics and Iron. Then I went for CoL. When I got my first GS, I had about seven turns left on CoL and didn't have Meditation or sailing yet, so I went academy instead of trying to bulb philosophy. I was also getting a culture push and the academy helped push back. I traded to get Monarchy to get into hereditary rule. I recalled my fog busters for garrison duty, put GS production on hold and grew quickly to my happy cap. Since I was on epic, I revolted right away since one turn of anarchy isn't too bad. I then researched CS to get into bureaucracy.

I ended up with Louis and Pacal as my neighbors. Loius ended with an early population lead and it was clear that he would be my UN opponent. Joao was slow to switch to HR. I ended up having Joao and Pacal (Buddhism) on one side of me and Louis and Huayna (Hinduism) on the other side. I had decent protection from attack due to wisely chosen civics. Once I built up enough diplo cushion, I switched to Hinduism, which I was able to use for almost the rest of the game.

I had several trade partners due to religion and favorite civic bonuses. I picked up Metal casting with a Civil Service trade and got a forge up for GE points.

Louis backstabbed at friendly. He did have WHEOOHRN, but I thought I was safe. I think the reason he attacked at friendly was that Stalin bribed him to attack me since Stalin went to war with me the same turn too. Louis sent one stack of 5 horse archers and one chariot. So I turned an archer into a longbow and built a few spearmen. He attacked, lost his stack and then made peace. Stalin could't get to me due to closed borders and we made peace much later.

I researched paper, bulbed 1/2 of education, and traded paper for the last 2/3 of philosophy. As I got close to liberalism, I had already picked up machinery and compass in trade. I had pre-chopped my forests and chopped a university and Oxford while researching liberalism. I traded for optics at the last minute and took astronomy with free tech from liberalism.

I was late to build the National epic, wanting to delay the GA poison. The only specialist I ran was an engineer and popped a GE with about a 60% chance. At this point, I had all cottages and no farms. Since I had a strong garrison, I didn't need the globe theater early on to allow me to grow.

There were several wars waged around me that tried my diplomacy. There was a war on Pacal that Louis and many others were in on that gave him a diplo edge. I couldn't risk joining in because I was weak. Later, there was a relative dog-pile on Stalin that I did join in on.

I was first to Scientific Method. Qin Shi Huang beat me to Physics by one turn. I was first to radio and mass media, used my GE and chopped five forests to get the UN the next turn.

My late game diplo dilemma was to try and get Augustus Caesar on board or to try to stick with Pacal. The problem was that they were each others' worst enemies. I didn't have to use any spies for late game manipulations.

In the end I pulled out victory by two votes on the first diplo victory ballot, as Stalin is attacking me:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0016-1.jpg
 
I've taken a couple stabs at this on Immortal level and end up with same result: conquest defeat. Does not speak well for my diplomatic skills! In each game I am at war more often than not, it seems.

First game I am able to get CS-sling and well ahead in tech all the way to the end... at least on the path to UN. No metals meant I was at serious disadvantge in all my wars. Knights, cats, maces, trebs easily overran my longbows. I was just about to finish electricity, with GA to bulb radio and GE to build UN. Boooo... I suck. Figure I let power get too low so that Ceasar kept seeing me as a mark. A few turns earlier I could have gotten a DP with stalin, but decided against it because it would anger Ceasar (LOL!)... and I figured his wheoohrn was aimed at stalin. Booo.... bad misjudgments. I could have won this on.

Second game I don't get CS-sling, but am ahead in tech until about Sci Method... this time I go military techs up to Rifling and am first there, delaying the UN line quite a bit. But my neighbor (Qin) declares on me at Pleased and has plenty of cannons and cavalry and riflemen... just overwhelmed me. I probably would not get the UN anyhow, despite having 2GE's saved, because I was 20 turns from Radio and Louis already had radio. :( Even if I got the UN, they tended to like the #1 pop guy (Louis) better than me. I had copper in ring3, but Qin would use espionage and pillage that, then DOW same turn (did this to me 3 times).

I've been using mapfinder for the first time, but not sure I'm looking for the right terrain. 1-2 commerce tiles, 2 or more food tiles, 4 or more forests, and marble. About 1 in 100 maps will give me this... but maybe I should be looking for something else? Does specifying so many bonuses in the start reduce your chances of getting a metal or horses nearby?

Also, I note that Shulec added some players. I've just been using the minimum required. Should I add to max opponents in order to limit the AI somewhat, or just add a couple AI to give them better targets than me, or some other ideas?

Each game Rome seems to be everybodies worst enemy. Each game they seem to prefer attacking me at pleased to attacking their worst enemy.

If your two neighbors hate each other, how do you handle it so that they both don't start hating you for not hating the other enough? Should you just pick one to kill and one to love, if this situation arises?

Note, in early game I have very big difficulty getting neighbors to not attack me... they see my power as too low is probably the biggest problem, but I don't know how to get the research to UN without sacrificing military production. Do you guys pre-empt them? The other aspect is that their civics won't come into play until later, I am unable to adopt their religion, and our close borders spark tensions.

Any tips? (The good thing is that being OCC the games do not take up so much time).
 
This would have been a tempting Deity game in series II. Sadly it falls into the toughest slot in the HoF Diplo table. 770 AD is too hard to beat. :( That takes away one of the main reasons (for me) to play these at Deity.
 
Also, I note that Shulec added some players. I've just been using the minimum required. Should I add to max opponents in order to limit the AI somewhat, or just add a couple AI to give them better targets than me, or some other ideas?

You must add some AI Opponents that will vote for you. Check the favorite civic of each Opponent you plan to add like shulec did. Make sure that match civics you plan to run the 50 turns leading up to and including The United Nations build and the first Resolution cycle (Diplomatic Victory Resolution). You do want them to still be running their favorite civic when they Vote you in!

Roosevelt and Augustus are the only High Peace Weight AIs required in this Game.

You could try adding four more High Peace Weight Opponents and try to marginalize the Low Peace Weight Opponents.

Adding four Middle Peace Weight Opponents might work better.

The best may be adding four Low Peace Weight Opponents who should get along with the other Low Peace Weight Opponent. All the Low Peace Weight Opponents will likely hate Roosevelt and Augustus. Just try to fit in with the Low Peace Weight Opponents.

In any of the above cases, the random Peace Weight added may result in a small number of "Toxic" AI Leaders, where trading with them will cause negatives with many others. Just keep your hands off them, or organize War against them for the War Ally Diplomatic bonus.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
This would have been a tempting Deity game in series II. Sadly it falls into the toughest slot in the HoF Diplo table. 770 AD is too hard to beat. :( That takes away one of the main reasons (for me) to play these at Deity.

Too challenging?

Also, why would you try to beat your own extremely early (770 AD) #1 rated Game that was non-OCC with a OCC with less than ideal Opponents?

Challenging enough?

However, for me the settings are just too appealing (the challenge of them) to resist the attempt at Deity level.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
My point was...if this was anything but Standard size, the winner would probably get a #1 HoF spot. Every other map size is beatable with OCC. It would have been another incentive to play. I'm glad to hear you're gonna play it on Deity. There's still a chance I might jump in. Good luck.
 
Hereditary Rule was my key to this one. Huayna, and Louis favor HR. Qin Shi Huang favors Bureaucracy, also easy for an OCC. Stalin is your typical psycho idiot, state property shouldn't interfere with Roosevelt's preference for Free Market since he won't be likely to run it. Roosevelt is generally peaceful, but can be really hated. Augustus Caesar favors representation. He may be the one you want to run away with population due to representation his lack of favorite civic diplo points.

I added Pacal and Joao for their preference of Hereditary Rule. I love Joao, but if he ends up next to you, he may run away with the population and that would not be good.

My start had three hills pigs, one gold on a river, a lot of forests, just under half river tiles, one flood plain and stone in the third culture expansion ring. I eventually picked up corn and ivory too. Settling on stone or marble would be ideal, for the hammer boost and potential wonder spam. I would avoid the Great Wall to prevent Great Spy poison. Since 6 of my 8 opponents were industrious, I figured the wonders would go quick and I didn't try for any of them. In my game, I popped BW, so I could have tried to chop a wonder, but the forests are too precious for that.

I did not use random events, but did use goody huts. I lucked into AH and BW from huts. No copper or horses in BFC. I researched archery for Barb/fog busting. I did have some barb problems and had my gold and on of my pigs pillaged. I whipped a library and one archer (due to barb pressure). I researched Writing, then Alphabet. I got my first GS around 1200 BC. I was able to pick up most early techs by trading writing. I held Alphabet for a while. And then I researched Aesthetics. I eventually traded Alphabet for Mathematics and Iron. Then I went for CoL. When I got my first GS, I had about seven turns left on CoL and didn't have Meditation or sailing yet, so I went academy instead of trying to bulb philosophy. I was also getting a culture push and the academy helped push back. I traded to get Monarchy to get into hereditary rule. I recalled my fog busters for garrison duty, put GS production on hold and grew quickly to my happy cap. Since I was on epic, I revolted right away since one turn of anarchy isn't too bad. I then researched CS to get into bureaucracy.

I ended up with Louis and Pacal as my neighbors. Loius ended with an early population lead and it was clear that he would be my UN opponent. Joao was slow to switch to HR. I ended up having Joao and Pacal (Buddhism) on one side of me and Louis and Huayna (Hinduism) on the other side. I had decent protection from attack due to wisely chosen civics. Once I built up enough diplo cushion, I switched to Hinduism, which I was able to use for almost the rest of the game.

I had several trade partners due to religion and favorite civic bonuses. I picked up Metal casting with a Civil Service trade and got a forge up for GE points.

Louis backstabbed at friendly. He did have WHEOOHRN, but I thought I was safe. I think the reason he attacked at friendly was that Stalin bribed him to attack me since Stalin went to war with me the same turn too. Louis sent one stack of 5 horse archers and one chariot. So I turned an archer into a longbow and built a few spearmen. He attacked, lost his stack and then made peace. Stalin could't get to me due to closed borders and we made peace much later.

I researched paper, bulbed 1/2 of education, and traded paper for the last 2/3 of philosophy. As I got close to liberalism, I had already picked up machinery and compass in trade. I had pre-chopped my forests and chopped a university and Oxford while researching liberalism. I traded for optics at the last minute and took astronomy with free tech from liberalism.

I was late to build the National epic, wanting to delay the GA poison. The only specialist I ran was an engineer and popped a GE with about a 60% chance. At this point, I had all cottages and no farms. Since I had a strong garrison, I didn't need the globe theater early on to allow me to grow.

There were several wars waged around me that tried my diplomacy. There was a war on Pacal that Louis and many others were in on that gave him a diplo edge. I couldn't risk joining in because I was weak. Later, there was a relative dog-pile on Stalin that I did join in on.

I was first to Scientific Method. Qin Shi Huang beat me to Physics by one turn. I was first to radio and mass media, used my GE and chopped five forests to get the UN the next turn.

My late game diplo dilemma was to try and get Augustus Caesar on board or to try to stick with Pacal. The problem was that they were each others' worst enemies. I didn't have to use any spies for late game manipulations.

In the end I pulled out victory by two votes on the first diplo victory ballot, as Stalin is attacking me:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0016-1.jpg

shulec, I don't think you mentioned playing at Deity level in your post! Please correct that omission.

1480 AD is an excellent Deity Date for these settings and especially the required Industrious Opponents (four at Low Peace Weight and two at High Peace Weight) who would conceivably grab any Great Wonder unless one researched the required Tech early enough. At least the required Civ, Bismarck, is also Industrious.

shulec, its great to see you pick up the Deity "Gauntlet" for this Game!

Congratulations! :goodjob:

Sun Tzu Wu
 
shulec, I don't think you mentioned playing at Deity level in your post! Please correct that omission.

1480 AD is an excellent Deity Date for these settings and especially the required Industrious Opponents (four at Low Peace Weight and two at High Peace Weight) who would conceivably grab any Great Wonder unless one researched the required Tech early enough. At least the required Civ, Bismarck, is also Industrious.

shulec, its great to see you pick up the Deity "Gauntlet" for this Game!

Congratulations! :goodjob:

Sun Tzu Wu

Thanks for the compliment. Back up that compliment by submitting your game after 1480! ;) After reflecting, I think I got fairly lucky. This was my first attempt where I didn't get overrun by barbs. I got lucky from huts (your favorite!) I got lucky that when Louis attacked, he sent a weenie stack. I got lucky that my next door neighbor that founded Buddhism, the odd religion out, got dog-piled, and that ultimately, I converted him to the popular religion and his last 19 votes boosted me to victory.

That being said, chance only becomes lucky if you can use it to your advantage.:D

I hope WastinTime also tries this one, even though he seems to not have the "time" to "waste";) since he owns the 770 AD spot. I'd like to see how I measure up to the both of you.

I've been using mapfinder for the first time, but not sure I'm looking for the right terrain. 1-2 commerce tiles, 2 or more food tiles, 4 or more forests, and marble. About 1 in 100 maps will give me this... but maybe I should be looking for something else? Does specifying so many bonuses in the start reduce your chances of getting a metal or horses nearby?

I would say that in my experience, in a stacked starting position, you will not likely get horses or metal in the BFC, but you will usually get something in the outer rings. That being said, look at my finish shot and you will see Grassland Iron in my BFC.
 
Thanks for the tips shulec + STW!

I managed to complete this one on Immortal level, which is always a stretch. I followed some advice by adding some helpful AI. I maybe went overboard a bit on that, actually. I added Mansa and Hatty for trading and civics help, but made sure to add Jaoa and Pacal top get some HR bonuses.

This was the first time I was able to build the UN, and was very pleased with the date... with first vote coming in 1550AD. But I lost that vote... missed by 1 diplo point on two of my voters. It took me a while to realize that I should concentrate on the largest civs who were not my opponent... but this was a little risky since my opp was Rome and they were on my border, and didn't like Louis and Stalin.

I waited too long thinking I could improve my diplo with Louis enough to bribe a civics switch to get back the HR and common religion bonuses. Stalin I handled by joining his wars, and gifting communism to get him into State Prop... but it meant giving up friendly relations with Joao. Just as well, because Joaoa got eliminated, as did Mansa, Hatty, Roosy, and nearly Pacal. At least the diplo got simpler. :eek:

But still took me a while to figure out the power of espionage.. or rather that it would be faster/more certain way to convert Louis. Had a number of spies picked off before I got it done, then it was hold on for the win. Louis was 20 turns from cutlure victory and Rome was about to launch a spaceship. But considering that I almost gave up on this game in 1550AD (and then again in 1700's, and again in 1800's) I'm very pleased to announce that I won a diplomatic victory after all. Late 1800's... won't win any prizes (except maybe over all those settler competitors :lol: ). But I am very pleased in that I set my goals high (by playing Immortal rather than Emperor) and was able to acheive a win. Very challenging indeed!

And after three or four failures using minimum opponents, I am convinced this one is very challenging. Adding good trading partners and those for early good relations was key. If I was more skillful in avoiding trading with worse enemies (for most of the game I figured Louis to be unimportant!), I'd have had a very impressive (for me) UN victory date. This is one to revisit on Deity level if I find time after completing the other challenge series games I'm planning to compete in.

Thanks for the help... even if I didn't make the best use of it, perhaps, I couldn't have done it without you! Lerned a lot (and re-learned even more:blush:). That's what its about!

Edit to add: I ran mapfinder for this one, specifying 3 food resources, 3 floodplains, and one commerce resource. Got one map in the first 15 regens, but not another one after over 440 regens. I stupidly settled on the pig, thinking this was the only place to get all the fp, food, and commerce... got very annoyed to realize on turn 2 that the silver was outside the BFC, as was the corn. Stupid. With that kind of bonehead move at the start, its amazing that I was able to get to the UN. Goes to show... you don't need an overpowered start... making good decisions is far more important (not counting that first settlöing decision, of course).
 
Nice job on the immortal finish!

Edit to add: I ran mapfinder for this one, specifying 3 food resources, 3 floodplains, and one commerce resource. Got one map in the first 15 regens, but not another one after over 440 regens. I stupidly settled on the pig, thinking this was the only place to get all the fp, food, and commerce... got very annoyed to realize on turn 2 that the silver was outside the BFC, as was the corn. Stupid. With that kind of bonehead move at the start, its amazing that I was able to get to the UN. Goes to show... you don't need an overpowered start... making good decisions is far more important (not counting that first settlöing decision, of course).

Here are the mapfinder rules I use for a general good start:
Spoiler :
Mapfinderrules.jpg

I generate a lot of starts and pick one to try!
 
Thanks for the tips shulec + STW!

Your'e welcome!

I managed to complete this one on Immortal level, ...

Congratulations! Any Immortal, United Nations Diplomatic Win with the required six Industrious leaders that range from the lose cannon Stalin and financial threat Huayna Capac to powerhouse Franklin Roosevelt and Augustus Ceasar is one you can be very proud of (regardless of the Date). :goodjob:

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I have also been following this thread before making my attempt. Thanks for all the good advice guys. Not sure I managed to follow it all, but the bits I did proved very useful. :goodjob:

I pulled an amazing start. 4 gold in sight! Only one food. But I had to play it, just to see what I could make of it. Decided I could waste one gold by settling on it and getting a riverside plains hill for my city. When I moved, I revealed yet another gold :eek: Five gold in a row!!
This is not normally as useful as it is impressive. It is just not a balanced start, and quite often I find I am struggling to grow my city to the point where I can use the resources. However, I had a few flood-plains and a couple of other tiles that could aid growth. Berlin never made it as one of those size 30 masterpieces though. I got it up to about 15 by the end.

But research went well. Oracle sling-thing to CS. Made sure of the Gt Lib, and then straight towards Liberalism. Stopped a couple of turns short so I could get Optics and take Astro from being first to Lib. All this way, way ahead of the AI.

I had added 4 potential supporters to the AI list: Mansa, Hattie, Joao and Cathy. The latter two for their like of HR. Mansa for likeability and trading. Hattie coz she just lurves me.
Well, I found I was sandwiched between Mansa and Hattie! Perfect. Bad guys were the other side of each of them. Louis beyond Mansa and Huayna beyond Hattie. We also shared a religion for most of the game.
So I joined in wars as needed, and kept a good bunch of the AI pleased with me throughout. Louis eventually got wiped, but then Stalin was revealed as a new mutual war candidate (though not perfect; Joao liked him)

I reached the final stages in the 1500 AD-ish times. Could never pop a Gt Eng to help me build the UN, but my hammers were OK enough to churn it out the hard way in about 20 turns. Still nobody else was going to build it before me. Only Mansa had Radio, and that only when I was 10 turns from completion.

Then I realised, sadly, that Mansa was going to be the UN rival. He was just so liked by everybody that I could see a whole bunch of abstentions wrecking the vote. However, the AI are nothing if not guileless when it comes to diplomacy! I managed to get Mansa himself to adopt Free Rel, so losing him the Friendly status of Hattie and Roose, who had shared a religion with him. I was still friendly with everyone except the generally-hated Huayna and Stalin.

I didn't get the first victory vote. I had already calculated that I would need all 6 friendly AI on my side. Hattie had just gone to war with Stalin and I dithered about joining her, as I knew Joao would give me a -2 for war on a friend. Unfortunately the -1 with Hattie for refusing her in wartime was just enough to drag her down to Pleased. The vote came up and she abstained, taking her 100 votes with her. I was 50 votes short.

While I prepared for the next vote I joined in her war, and everyone stayed Friendly except Joao, as expected, who dropped to Pleased. I noticed that he was +7, and would go back to Friendly if I could persuade him into HR from Democracy. I kept trying, but it wasn't available. Presumably he had recently changed civics. Anyway, just before the next vote he agreed to be bribed into HR and went pleased with me :).

The vote came up. They all fell into line and I got my win. :salute:
 
I pulled an amazing start. 4 gold in sight! Only one food. But I had to play it, just to see what I could make of it. Decided I could waste one gold by settling on it and getting a riverside plains hill for my city. When I moved, I revealed yet another gold :eek: Five gold in a row!!


Well, I found I was sandwiched between Mansa and Hattie! Perfect. Bad guys were the other side of each of them. Louis beyond Mansa and Huayna beyond Hattie. We also shared a religion for most of the game.

I reached the final stages in the 1500 AD-ish times. Could never pop a Gt Eng to help me build the UN, but my hammers were OK enough to churn it out the hard way in about 20 turns. Still nobody else was going to build it before me. Only Mansa had Radio, and that only when I was 10 turns from completion.

Then I realised, sadly, that Mansa was going to be the UN rival. He was just so liked by everybody that I could see a whole bunch of abstentions wrecking the vote. However, the AI are nothing if not guileless when it comes to diplomacy! I managed to get Mansa himself to adopt Free Rel, so losing him the Friendly status of Hattie and Roose, who had shared a religion with him. I was still friendly with everyone except the generally-hated Huayna and Stalin.

I noticed that he was +7, and would go back to Friendly if I could persuade him into HR from Democracy. I kept trying, but it wasn't available. Presumably he had recently changed civics. Anyway, just before the next vote he agreed to be bribed into HR and went pleased with me :).

The vote came up. They all fell into line and I got my win. :salute:

Congrats! Nice finish and I enjoyed your write-up.

Some random comments... I think the placement of neighbors has more to do with a good finish than what resources are in the BFC. An average decent city is enough to win this, but you need some luck with the neighborhood - this speaks against using mapfinder for this one. Oh... and then to luck out that both your neighbors are in the same religion, that's priceless.

Best friends often become the UN rival... I suppose that's because while they're helping you, you're helping them. So it take a lot of judgement to know when to start courting others. I had Rome as my neighbor and friend (because in games he wasn't my friend he would kill me). If he wasn't in Spaceship mode, he'd probably have done that again. :lol: This game you need a LOT of friendly voters, making it a very challenging set-up.

I wasted a lot of time trying to bribe a +7 pleased Louis into his fav civic (HR), but he "Just doesn't like me enough". Well... if you try HR, you WILL like me enough, dumb Louis! Thank Sid there's always alternative ways to get things done.

One other thing... I think the difference between Immortal and Emperor is not that great, so your 1660AD finish is a lot more impressive (to me at least) than my 1880AD finish. :goodjob:
 
@Sun Tzu Wu & kcd_swede
Thanks for your comments!
I thought I might have been overdoing it a bit, posting such a substantial write-up about a fairly run-of-the-mill game. Glad you found it of interest.

@kcd_swede
Yes. I agree about the neighbours having more influence than the start. I had tried a previous attempt (but without adding any extra AI) and I was wiped out by neighbour Stalin when going quite well. I was very pleased in this attempt to find 2 of my selected 'friends' on either side of me.
About religion spread. Adding the extra 4 AI can possibly put the points where early religions are founded further apart around the circle, and make it less likely that you've got a founder on either side of you. This is what happened to me. Hattie founded Judaism, it arrived at my city, and Mansa had no religion until it spread through to him. Then we became a happy threesome against the bad guys on either side.
The start I was looking for would be a rich blend, rather than a heap of gold. I believe the ability to settle on a riverside plains hill within reach of other resources is very powerful. If those other resources had been one or two gold and a couple of food I would have had a very good feeling about the start. I would really like a nice bunch of forests and some hills, too.

Hmm. The jury's still out on the difference between a 1660 emperor and a 1880 immortal in my book. I'm still not brave enough to step up to immortal on a regular basis. One thing's for sure. We're both humbled into insignificance against shulec's 1480AD Deity win!!
 
First off, I must express my appreciation of allowing any difficulty on these challenges. I notice that most submissions have come from established heavy weights of the HoF, and initially wondered how I could hope to compete.

A few notes on myself and what I found looking over this challenge:

1) I have never played a OCC.
2) I have submitted fewer than 20 games to the HoF.
3) My only Diplomatic submission was a 1944 victory on Warlord.

I felt daunted looking at the submissions of the top notch competitors. I wasn't entirely certain I could manage to even complete this challenge.

I made this first attempt at Settler. Situated on the north shore, my immediate neighbors were Inca to the east, America to the west. Huayna founded Buddhism, but I managed to monopolize all the other religions, focusing all my research through to Theocracy, then getting alphabet. I chose to spread Christianity, and managed to get everyone to convert except the Buddhist Incas and the Americans, who went Taoist. I managed good relations with all my friends in faith, and decided it might be best to do away with the heathens. I convinced everyone to declare war on either the Americans and Incas, but was dismayed to find that nobody had the military might on their own to do more than make each rather displeased with me (I got my nearest neighbors Furious with me in a hurry). Trying to develop my single city nation, I didn't give myself much military, and so lacked the means to take care of them myself. Uncertain how to proceed, I teched to Mass Media and built myself the UN. I realized too late the situation I'd put myself in when it came to a vote. Louis was my competitor, who voted for himself, and with Huayna and Roosevelt abstaining (with a combined 60-70 votes) I came about 50 votes shy. Focusing on military, I renewed my war effort against the Incas first, bringing everyone but Louis to war against the Incas (counting on the 'war ally' bonus to keep them from voting for Louis, who they were all Pleased or Friendly with as well) in hopes of removing their abstaining votes from the equation.

With 3 or 4 voting periods passing with the same results, I was beginning to despair. But then, a most curious thing happened with the next UN General election. Roosevelt was the 2nd option... Huayna and Roosevelt voted for Roosevelt, the rest of the world voted for me. I dominated the vote by a ridiculous margin and stumbled into a 1695 AD victory.

Not the most skillful/best/most dramatic victory, but I count succeeding at all here as victory enough. But I'm in for the 'Challenge'. And I'll be back for more!
 
First off, I must express my appreciation of allowing any difficulty on these challenges. I notice that most submissions have come from established heavy weights of the HoF, and initially wondered how I could hope to compete.

A few notes on myself and what I found looking over this challenge:

1) I have never played a OCC.
2) I have submitted fewer than 20 games to the HoF.
3) My only Diplomatic submission was a 1944 victory on Warlord.

I felt daunted looking at the submissions of the top notch competitors. I wasn't entirely certain I could manage to even complete this challenge.

I made this first attempt at Settler. Situated on the north shore, my immediate neighbors were Inca to the east, America to the west. Huayna founded Buddhism, but I managed to monopolize all the other religions, focusing all my research through to Theocracy, then getting alphabet. I chose to spread Christianity, and managed to get everyone to convert except the Buddhist Incas and the Americans, who went Taoist. I managed good relations with all my friends in faith, and decided it might be best to do away with the heathens. I convinced everyone to declare war on either the Americans and Incas, but was dismayed to find that nobody had the military might on their own to do more than make each rather displeased with me (I got my nearest neighbors Furious with me in a hurry). Trying to develop my single city nation, I didn't give myself much military, and so lacked the means to take care of them myself. Uncertain how to proceed, I teched to Mass Media and built myself the UN. I realized too late the situation I'd put myself in when it came to a vote. Louis was my competitor, who voted for himself, and with Huayna and Roosevelt abstaining (with a combined 60-70 votes) I came about 50 votes shy. Focusing on military, I renewed my war effort against the Incas first, bringing everyone but Louis to war against the Incas (counting on the 'war ally' bonus to keep them from voting for Louis, who they were all Pleased or Friendly with as well) in hopes of removing their abstaining votes from the equation.

With 3 or 4 voting periods passing with the same results, I was beginning to despair. But then, a most curious thing happened with the next UN General election. Roosevelt was the 2nd option... Huayna and Roosevelt voted for Roosevelt, the rest of the world voted for me. I dominated the vote by a ridiculous margin and stumbled into a 1695 AD victory.

Not the most skillful/best/most dramatic victory, but I count succeeding at all here as victory enough. But I'm in for the 'Challenge'. And I'll be back for more!

Well done Vincent! It sounds like a fun game. I still regularly encounter a gambit that I think I have skillfully performed only to have it backfire! It wasn't luck that you won, you laid out all the ground work and eventually it paid off.

Play some more OCC challenges. They are tremendous fun. They can offer tremendous incite into the power of your capital. Try a space colony victory.
 
First off, I must express my appreciation of allowing any difficulty on these challenges. I notice that most submissions have come from established heavy weights of the HoF, and initially wondered how I could hope to compete.

I'm also very pleased the HoF staff opened up competition for all Difficulty levels. I'm convinced this is the best way to go. We all have a preferred Difficulty level, but I think we will all learn more about playing the Game with all Difficulty levels open than with just (effectively) one Difficulty level like the previous Challenge Series.

Not the most skillful/best/most dramatic victory, but I count succeeding at all here as victory enough. But I'm in for the 'Challenge'. And I'll be back for more!

I really enjoyed your write up, especially since it detailed a learning process. Although the switch in TUN candidate was a surprise to you this time, next time you can try to do things to increase an unpopular AI Leader's Population till he/she becomes a TUN candidate and defeat him/her in a DV. For example, gifting Biology or maybe a happiness resource, etc. Spreading an unpopular Religion to the current TUN candidate could help, if he/she converts to it.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Emporer 1360AD win. I don't think I can improve that much. I used a 2 gems start and did not add any opponents. The start was above average, but not a crazy 1/1000 mapfinder one. I rerolled maybe 20 times and this was the second map I attempted...lost Oracle->CS sling race on first map. I seem to get more 2 gem starts on Inland Sea than any other map type.

Looking back I probably should have played this at Immortal, but I rarely go for Diplo (in other words I suck at it) so I wanted to play emp to get a feel for the game.

I may have wasted a lot of time/hammers building missionaries, but I thought Louis was going to be my opponent in the vote...and then it would have been a good investment to get Ceasar on my side. But Ceasar overtook Louis late by capturing Stalin's cities...which made things tricky. I had to do some late civics switching, bribing and shared war...BARELY got Roosevelt to vote for me and that put me over the top. HC/Louis/Qin were pretty easy with fair trade relations + fav civics + some misc stuff.

I made a few mistakes, but overall this was my best diplo game ever.

cas
 
Back
Top Bottom