A Reload Request

ash88

ash88

Hail to the King Baby -DN
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
352
Location
Castle Merlot
Very interesting.

A reload request

More discussion

My initial inclination is that it would do us well if our Compassionate King supported a reload. Although I cringed at his ultimatum I agree with Sommersword in his assessment - playing the game to win because someone misclicked is just not as rewarding.

That said - this does set the precedent of "where do you draw the line?" Could a team later ask for a reload because we moved out warrior to the wrong square? The other issue to consider is that they are in an alliance against us - but they are one of our better choices for future diplomatic relations...

All in all I would no be upset if the reload happened.
 
In interest of Diplomacy, I would recommend we support this reload, since Sommerswerd is already leaning towards us on friendly terms. However, the reasoning behind my recommendation here is based on internal game politics, which may not be the best motives for supporting such a major action. Sommerswerds ultimatum was nasty, to say the least, but that is his choice. If the reload does not go through, and he decides not to continue playing however, we may have lost our most important foothold within Team Amazon...
 
Oh, and welcome back Ash88! I've missed your well-written posts while you've been inactive! :)
 
Caledorn said:
Oh, and welcome back Ash88! I've missed your well-written posts while you've been inactive! :)
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I wouldn't make a very good King - at least in the summertime. The draw of sitting out the back yard with a beer is too strong :) That said I have been quietly reading everything!

If our King decides to vote for the reload then I wouldn't draw to much attention to it - just have it done in a matter-of-fact kind of way. Us appearing to kiss up would be a bad thing I think.
 
ash88 said:
I wouldn't make a very good King - at least in the summertime. The draw of sitting out the back yard with a beer is too strong :) That said I have been quietly reading everything!

If our King decides to vote for the reload then I wouldn't draw to much attention to it - just have it done in a matter-of-fact kind of way. Us appearing to kiss up would be a bad thing I think.
Click to expand...

Hehehe - I can understand why the beer and the back yard is calling! ;)

And yes, I do agree. In no manner should we let any of the other teams suspect that we are trying to ingratiate ourselves with the Amazons or Sommerswerd. Sommerswerd will most likely get the picture that we're trying to be friendly without anyone needing to rub it into his face.
 
I don't think we should tie in-game politics to whether or not an out-of-game rule-change (a reload) is allowed. We should do it if we think it's right. Doing it "if we think it'll help us" just feels like rules-abuse.

I'm undecided. On the one hand I sympathise and I think the team members' fun is much more important than the end result, so I'd naturally be tempted to say "Oh go on then, have a reload".
On the other hand, I'm aware it could open a whole can of worms if there's a later reload request that gets denied. (It's usually bending the rules for players that leads to the worst kinds of ill-feeling in games.)
 
Personally i would vote no. The rules are the rules.

However, i dont really believe in votes so whatever the game admin-or team leaders, in this case our king-decide is fine by me.

It seems like every DG has these animosity-generating events, and id rather just steer clear of it
 
whb said:
I'm undecided. On the one hand I sympathise and I think the team members' fun is much more important than the end result, so I'd naturally be tempted to say "Oh go on then, have a reload".
On the other hand, I'm aware it could open a whole can of worms if there's a later reload request that gets denied. (It's usually bending the rules for players that leads to the worst kinds of ill-feeling in games.)
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To be fair, it's the mis-placement of an entire city. An irreversible change to all means but the reload.

A warrior or scout, heck, even an entire stack going to the wrong tile is a minor issue at best. It can be reversed within a turn or two.

Building a city on the wrong plot, cannot.

I humbly believe we should allow the reload. Not because of internal politics, but because it is the honourable and respectable thing to do. :cool:

...

Besides, who here honestly feels that the mighty armies of Merlot need this trivial mistake to triumph over their enemies? Let the defeatists stand forward and be counted! :satan:

(OOC: Hullo, Ash! :D )
 
Unfortunate thing is that even if we don't try to tie in-game politics to the issue, it prbably will be. At least in the case that there will not be a reload. Even if in principle the Amazons would accept that the vote is more on general level than against them, it would still likely cause ill feelings for those voting no. People who would not be a least bit hurt by basically voting them out of the game because of an accident are very rare indeed.

Still I would also recommend making the decision based just on the out of the game consequences. I am personally leaning towards voting yes, but that's mostly probably since I've just multiplayed with my friends before this game, and hence we have been using only light weight rulesets with problematic situations being solved by discussing them out.
 
In-game politics aside, I absolutely think we should vote yes. It was one person's instantaneous slip-up, on account of his baby crying no less, that really does have a big effect on the rest of their game. We lose nothing by reloading, except an advantage over Amazon which as other people have pointed out would only taint the rest of the game. There's a chance that down the line this might cause bickering ("why can't we reload when Amazon did in turn whatever", etc.), but I'd like to think we're all mature enough not to let that happen. Being good-natured rather than a stickler for the rules will create a better atmosphere for the game as a whole.
 
I probably shouldnt stick my nose in this any further, but id just like to note that the thing with the baby is a logical fallacy, appeal to emotion. The rules dont say no reloading unless your baby messes it up. It says no reloads. Also, no one forced him to use a laptop on a couch, which as anyone could tell you, is not exactly the most precise sitting surface.
 
Dont hurt me. :D
 
Logical fallacies only apply to logical arguments. This isn't one. I don't think anyone is trying to absolve Sommersword or Amazon of responsibility, or claiming they are entitled to a reload in the rules. It's just a matter of giving them a break, in the interests of compassion and a friendly game atmosphere.
 
I am in favor of a reload. It is ultimately up to what our King decides though.
 
Having read all the discussion, on balance I would support a reload because Dave W can verify the long debate on the city placement and because no other team is disadvantaged.

However, for instance, if a reload involved going back to a much earlier save than the immediate one and a team that got a Great Engineer on their turn, which they hoped for, faced the prospect a different outcome from the RNG, that would be a different matter.
 
A couple of posts in this thread have suggested that this decision be made "outside of the game" - without an eye towards how we might benefit, or not, and other diplomatic considerations.

On that topic: I don't think that keeping this decision "outside of game" is realistic.

Whether the King ultimately decides Yes or No our actions will be interpreted by other individuals on other teams. Our best intentions to "keep it outside the game" are misplaced because inevitably other people will look at our decision and it will effect their opinion of us.

Since we can't enforce everyone playing to forever treat this as merely an "out of game" decision we have to embrace the fact that it could have ramifications in game, and evaluate it from that front as well.

imho.
 
Úmarth;9366584 said:
Logical fallacies only apply to logical arguments. This isn't one. I don't think anyone is trying to absolve Sommersword or Amazon of responsibility, or claiming they are entitled to a reload in the rules. It's just a matter of giving them a break, in the interests of compassion and a friendly game atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Although I agree with Caledorn's assessment of the ultimatum, I agree most of all with Umarth, above. Let them reload, just because it's the friendly thing to do.
 
All a bit moot...

DaveMcW posted this:
There are 3 votes of support in the private forums, so you can go ahead and reload, DaveShack.
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Since he used the words "votes of support in the private forums", it's publicly obvious we weren't one of the 3. So I've made a post explaining that the King hasn't been online since before the request was made, which is why we haven't answered yet, and that the sentiment in this thread was almost unanimously to allow the reload. (I don't want anyone thinking that we voted against when we didn't, and would pretty obviously from this thread and Indiansmoke's relationship with Sommers have voted for the reload.)
 
Logical fallacies only apply to logical arguments. This isn't one.
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:lol: :lol:

Of course it is, he is rationalizing the reload per the seriousness of the mistake, how it will cost them the rest of the game, etc etc.
 
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