SGOTM 11 - Who Dat?

Fluroscent · Aug 3, 2010

Hey orb! Our diplo scores are safe enough, with only Toku being a bit iffy, but still pretty safe.

Hard to tell what scores mean in terms of finish date. Plastic Ducks have a huge score centuries earlier, and other teams probably have spent a lot more time on their games than we have this time.

Rep is not so important any longer, and unhappy faces don't matter too much. We can at least draft 1 musket/city and then switch back.

Just to clear up that nationalism of course would replace bureaucracy :rolleyes:

. But a four turn stint to draft 10-12 muskets sounds great. We probably want our capital to continue the GNP production to allow us to fund the war properly, and as an emergency measure, to tech military science for grenadiers.

pnp_dredd · Aug 3, 2010

Since I'm in the game anyway, here's the diplo. Note that Toku is in WHEOORN so we might be getting "mutual military struggle" soon.

beestar · Aug 3, 2010

Toku's probably WHEOOHRN because he's fighting Isabella right now

cas · Aug 3, 2010

Good turnset. Seems our war-plans did not go fast enough.

I'm glad I was wrong about bulbing Radio.

I did not want my ~5 turn delay on Oxford to cost us lib->Radio by 1 turn. That would've sucked. :cry:

Beestar can take the next turnset(s) and finish it. I wouldn't be able to play for 2-3 days. And I'd rather have one person continuous-play at this point through the war, UN build, and vote. High chance for errors taking over in the middle of that.

I rarely gift cities to the AI, and always on their borders...so I can't be much help with the distance mechanics there. (ie...will he accept a city further away?)

cas

Fluroscent · Aug 3, 2010

Seems everyone is ok with you taking it home beestar

That way you are solely responsible for making sure our checklist is completed :trouble:

Just kidding of course

No need to remind you what you have to do :deadhorse:

beestar · Aug 3, 2010

Okay, here we go. Here's the general plan and I'll start immediately. Shout if something looks really wrong.

Military: conquer Edirne (it's sooo close - Fluro I can see how you would be frustrated!). Bring up muskets to take Istanbul and Gaziantep. We really want to capture Samsun, as I don't see a good settling opportunity.

We want to trade for Nationalism, but it's going to cost us. Everyone wants SciMeth from us but I hate to give up a monopoly tech. I'd rather give away Chemistry but it's not worth enough on its own. Can't give away Liberalism for fear of Free Religion. Options:

Banking and Chemistry to Justy for Nationalism.
Chemistry + $$$ we don't have to Zara for Nationalism.
SciMeth to Saladin for Nationalism + 50 gold
SciMeth to Zara for Nationalism and gold.
SciMeth + 100gold to Zara for Nationalism and war declaration
SciMeth to Justy for Nationalism + 80 gold
SciMeth+Banking to Justy for Nationalism and war declaration

P.S. How did we get Chemistry? I assume it was a trade from Saladin ... nice.

Our great person situation is that we have a GM, GG, and GS waiting (not including the GE for UN). The next GG should come in 2 battles. In 23 turns we can pop out one more GS; quicker, if we starve. Looks like we have a surplus Great Person to me, so I'm going to burn the GM on a trade mission. This will let us buy Nationalism for Chemistry+cash.

Research: none (options are investing a few turns in Nationalism, or MilSci)

Also it's begging time

Fluroscent · Aug 3, 2010

I begged from Justin+Saladin.
I don't think we should go for Samsun, just build UN immediately in Erdine once it leaves revolt.
And yes, I traded for chemistry to get the +1 :hammers:

on workshops.

Keep hold of Scimeth IMO. Banking+chem to Justin seems ok.

beestar · Aug 3, 2010

All right guys, it's late and I need to pause at T289/1345AD after a difficult turnset. We had some hiccups but things are on track. We're in the process of building the UN in Edirne.

The war took a long time with Mehmed's knights and Janissaries. We could have fought with the existing stack on the next turn but the chances weren't looking so great and if we had lost, Bursa would be subject to a counter attack. So instead I drafted up the musketman army ... while Mehmed reinforced. I traded for MilSci (Grenadiers) and MilTrad (Cuirassiers) to make the war quicker. The gold from the GM trade mission went into upgrading macemen into super Grenadiers, and into EP against Mehmed to revolt Istanbul. Thankfully the Spy succeeded. The war was fairly slow and it's now finally ready to end at T288 (1345AD). I captured Samsun and razed Konya to take culture pressure off Edirne, to let Edirne work better tiles for the UN - this didn't slow down Edirne's UN building.

Mehmed will vassalize to us now, but we don't want that - we just want peace, and later we'll gift him Edirne with UN. Isabella has vassalized to Toku. The diplo situation is getting unstable ... Toku may start acting up and consider attacking Mehmed. Or, Mehmed may voluntarily vassalize to someone (how does this affect UN candidacy?)

The trading has accelerated the general tech pace - some AIs have RP and Rifling. Fortunately they all seem to be ignoring Lib.

The major bad event in this turnset was that Zara's Privateer sunk our Galleon with our GG in it - I should have expected that with Chemistry going around, Privateers would start to appear :mad:

. I'm now teching Communism for the GSpy, which we should easily get in 3 turns. But the need to tech slowed down our progress. In 4 turns we'll get the GM for our final GPerson.

Running a state religion: CHECK (Hinduism)
All cities have Hindusim: CHECK
4 Warriors on FurIsland: CHECK (still need to move them atop the fur)
Control all 4 resources: CHECK
4 Great People: still waiting for GM and GSpy
Diplo victory: not yet obviously. Gotta get UN up as soon as possible before diplo situation goes weird. Can we whip it?
All cities have access to all resources: NO. When we give back Edirne to Mehmed, Samsun is going to be trapped behind closed borders cut off from resources. We'll need to give back Samsun after we give back Edirne. And beware of Privateer blockades ...

Anyway, it was a busy set so I've paused here to let people have a look at the save and comment. I'm happy to pass the baton, or to keep playing.

Turnset Log to 1290AD:

Spoiler :

beestar · Aug 3, 2010

Oh, also, we are now the AP resident and #1 in population

Here's the rest of the Turnset Log 1295AD-1345AD

Spoiler :

Pictures:

diplo

Spoiler :

Edirne

Spoiler :

Last military action, razing of Konya

Spoiler :

Istanbul

Spoiler :

cas · Aug 3, 2010

If it's up to me, keep playing a while longer...hopefully until we win soon.

cas

Fluroscent · Aug 4, 2010

Well done. The mistake we did was to not realize that the war needed to be started sooner, and particularly the need to capture the UN site. But it looks like the rest is pretty straightforward now.

Seems the limiting factor will be to finish the UN. So let's use OR, ship all available workers over and workshop the FPs, and whip when possible. If another city could squeeze out the kremlin before the UN becomes whippable, we could save a turn (seems like a stretch though..)
Priority for all other cities should be growing pop.

Do we take peace now, or do we gift the UN as a peace deal? If the latter is an option, then it should be a smoother transition.

Go ahead and finish it up.

beestar · Aug 4, 2010

OK folks, game in progress.

T289. Took peace immediately. UN is quite a few turns ways away. GE hammers are indeed 750 + 30/pop so we will grow Edirne a bit first.

T290. Building Frigates and Wealth. Defensive pact with Justinian to deter Toku madness

T291.

T292. Teched Communism and gained GSpy

T293. Christopher Columbus the GM is born. Switch to OR for +25% hammers

T294. Building courthouses. Some cities have -35 maintenance!

T295. AP vote comes up and we have the chance to open borders with all members. I vote yes so Toku will be happier with his neighbours.

T296. The giant fleet is setting sail for Fur Island with Spy and Merchant in tow.

beestar · Aug 4, 2010

1380AD. Defensive Pact with Toku

1415AD. GE rushes UN for ~1000 hammers, hoping to whip the rest.

1435AD UN (whipping didn't make any difference)

Spoiler :

1440AD Switch to Theology. The prospective diplo victory vote is us against Toku. He gets his own votes plus his vassal Isabella. We have 65% which apparently is enough even if our rival is Toku. Mehmed is worst enemy of Saladin. This is going to cost us when we gift the city (Saladin is at +14). Maybe we don't need the uncertainty of gifting away the UN city ...

Total: 499 us, 211 Toku
Required: 476 out of 768 (62%)

Spoiler :

1445AD. So many damn Privateers that we spawned another GG, on Fur Island no less. Isabella breaks free from Toku. We now have 64.9% of the votes and we win the Sec Gen vote. Isabella will no longer vote for Toku.

Spoiler :

Beg Justy 70, Zara 0, Saladin 0

1455AD. Zara has infantry! :eek:

1465AD/T312. Tech Biology and get a few more pop. We have 64.8% of the vote.

1470AD. We have 64.7% of the vote with 215 citizens. Saladin is +14 but I realize that due to hidden diplo modifiers, he might actually be below the magic +11 threshold. Gifted him Physics for +4 fair trade points, to reach +17.

Spoiler :

Check all the conditions:

Everyone is running a state religion (unless someone steals Liberalism from us on the last turn) ...

We are running a state religion and all our cities have it ...

Spoiler :

No privateers are blocking our resources so each city has access to the 4 special resources (have distributed Frigates around our coasts just in case)...

Spoiler :

We have the welcoming party of 4 warriors and 4 GPs ...

Spoiler :

We have enough votes to win, assuming the statistical margin of error doesn't crop up ...

1480AD. This is it ...

Spoiler :

beestar · Aug 4, 2010

Results ...

Spoiler :

Statistics ...

Spoiler :

Okay, here's hoping we didn't miss anything in the special conditions ...

Link to final save for your records

(Turnset Log below)

Spoiler :

cas · Aug 4, 2010

Hard to follow all that. Heh. Glad I did not try to take over in the middle of it.

Took a lot longer than I thought it would...thought we would finish somewhere in the earlier 1400's. Not complaining, just thought it would happen faster.

At least we finished and met all conditions. And we certainly are going to have the least number of posts of any team. :lol:

edit: And we won't be getting last place because 'Phoenix Rising' is already at 1640AD. Hehe.

edit2: can we view other teams' threads once Beestar uploads the final save ?

cas

pnp_dredd · Aug 4, 2010

Nicely done. Pity we didn't realize that we didn't need the whole Mehmed-gifting shenanigans.

Can we try to work out how many turns that cost us? How many turns were there between when we completed MM and began UN? and, how many turns faster could we have built UN in one of our core cities?

Fluroscent · Aug 5, 2010

Well, we seemed to need some time to grow pop and get bio and capture those Ottoman cities to get the pop needed anyway. So I wouldn't say that it cost us as many turns as we could have saved on the construction of the UN in a core city, but we sure could have done with a less rushed endgame (and midgame for that matter).
Closer to 1400AD was definitely possible, but I am mostly happy that we are done with no further trouble.

Well played beestar, I didn't expect us to win pre 1500AD before your set begun :goodjob:

And well played to all, making very few mistakes and generally playing well with less than optimal pre-planning.

Now let's see how well the best teams perform, and how we end up in the pack.
We probably should wait for the OK from Alan before reading other treads, just in case.

orb · Aug 5, 2010

Well done Beestar, and fellow WD?'s.

I like the 1480 date. When I checked the previous game files for anything similar the only Indian/ Emperor game I could find was Fluro's diplo win in GOTM in the 1600's.- Slightly different game, but that was my expected finish date so 1480 is a good improvement.

I realise I didn't have a lot of free time to join this game, but it was fun to read the posts and watch the progress.

I guess the next SGOTM might use Civ 5....Must buy a new PC before that....My current machine is struggling now...I'm sure the next game will be another enjoyable challenge.

The final turnlog has been posted, but the summary page doesn't show the final date/score so I guess the final save is being checked right now.

beestar · Aug 5, 2010

Hey guys, I got a PM from AlanH saying that Eldine was checking our final save. BTW the final date doesn't show up in the SGOTM Progress web page until all teams have finished.

Good game to all the WhoDat? team! Sorry I was absent for a number of weeks in the middle there, glad it all worked out. Probably time for a Civ break now! Thanks for an entertaining team game guys

beestar · Aug 5, 2010

In terms of game results, being able to vote ourselves into victory was a big surprise. As long as we could ensure that #2 was somewhat unpopular, we could have built UN ourselves. I guess it's easy to make Toku unpopular, but not too easy to ensure it's him that's #2 in pop and not someone else.

UN definitely could have been built in a core city instead of having to conquer Edirne, wait for it to come out of unrest, grow up to a decent size, etc.

Maybe we could have gone war-mode earlier to attack Mehmed for resources. Or crushed Isabella and Mehmed earlier and leveraged the extra land for fast teching and big population? We could have used earlier Spy scouting to determine who to attack - it was late in the game before we knew who would be our friend, and who would be our victim

I think the uncertainties of the special limitations made us plan a slightly risk-averse strategy. Oh well, lessons learned!

SGOTM 11 - Who Dat?

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