I think I recall seeing 'Monument' as build option. So yes, he probably didn't favor culture as much as he could have.
The UU-A-Day Countdown
- Thread starter ShaqFu
- Start date
I think I recall seeing 'Monument' as build option. So yes, he probably didn't favor culture as much as he could have.
I had an awesome discussion set up for today's UU, but I accidentally closed the window. I'll still post, but I was really happy with how that one shaped up. 
Anyway, with only a week left to go (time to start counting hours!), we'll look at an underdiscussed unit: the Roman Ballista. Essentially a gigantic crossbow, its Civ5 representative reflects its devastating capabilities: +4 ranged combat strength (18) over generic Catapults.
I've been unfair to siege thus far in the thread, as they didn't strike me as particularly useful in maneuver-heavy Civ5 combat. Why bother setting up to fire, when battles move so quickly? I realized, however, that siege is more useful than it first appears in field combat due to its devastating strength. The Ballista, with its 18 ranged strength, is as powerful as a Knight at range - when applied in the Iron Age, when most units have ~10 strength, it can seriously weaken an enemy's troops. So long as you can draw them into firing range (via crafty maneuvering of other units), the Roman player can dominate a battlefield with his siege engines. To say nothing of where the Ballista truly shines, city conquest: point these at a city, let fire, and your Legion/Horsemen's jobs just became easy. With 18 strength, it's unlikely any city will stand for very long against your assault.
Just be wary of the fact that they still have the Catapult's base strength of 4, making them on par with Archers in melee. If Horsemen get back to your Ballista, things will go poorly for Rome; given that the lowly Scout has 4 strength, you should keep careful guard of your siege engines.
Anyway, with only a week left to go (time to start counting hours!), we'll look at an underdiscussed unit: the Roman Ballista. Essentially a gigantic crossbow, its Civ5 representative reflects its devastating capabilities: +4 ranged combat strength (18) over generic Catapults.
I've been unfair to siege thus far in the thread, as they didn't strike me as particularly useful in maneuver-heavy Civ5 combat. Why bother setting up to fire, when battles move so quickly? I realized, however, that siege is more useful than it first appears in field combat due to its devastating strength. The Ballista, with its 18 ranged strength, is as powerful as a Knight at range - when applied in the Iron Age, when most units have ~10 strength, it can seriously weaken an enemy's troops. So long as you can draw them into firing range (via crafty maneuvering of other units), the Roman player can dominate a battlefield with his siege engines. To say nothing of where the Ballista truly shines, city conquest: point these at a city, let fire, and your Legion/Horsemen's jobs just became easy. With 18 strength, it's unlikely any city will stand for very long against your assault.
Just be wary of the fact that they still have the Catapult's base strength of 4, making them on par with Archers in melee. If Horsemen get back to your Ballista, things will go poorly for Rome; given that the lowly Scout has 4 strength, you should keep careful guard of your siege engines.
TM Moot
King
Two questions regarding the Ballista (and siege generally i guess).
Can they move AND fire in the same turn?
Can they kill units outright (rather than just damage up to a certain point like in cIV)?
Can they move AND fire in the same turn?
Can they kill units outright (rather than just damage up to a certain point like in cIV)?
stealth_nsk
Deity
1. They require setting up, so as long as they have 1 movement point, they don't.
2. Yes.
Schuesseled
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2008
- Messages
- 2,081
1) Not generally speaking, because you have to expend a movement point to set up a siege weapon. So if you move and set up, you'll have run out of movement points.
2) Yes, there is no damage cap placed on certain types of units, although you aren't guaranteed a kill with every attack, sometimes you only do enough damage to injure. (and thats true with all units)
ErichRommel
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2010
- Messages
- 72
To settle the matter of panzersuperiority check this out. Its the true story of a german panzer ace with his Tiger destroying a whole armored spearhead all alone. It matters who controls technology 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Villers-Bocage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Villers-Bocage
Do we know yet what the English Ship-of-the-Line unit will be like? I haven't seen much discussion/info about it anywhere. All I've seen is that its ranged attack strength will be very marginally higher than a normal frigate, but apart from that zilch.
Feyd Rautha
Prince
No info yet. I feel bad for ShaqFu because he's got a hard road ahead on these remaining units. I mean c'mon it's so hard to release stats before the game comes out? This has been the most secretive Civ project since the Internet really came into it's own (after Civ II).
There are still question marks on the majority of the major game concepts in all the game info sites! W-tee-H, mate?
There are still question marks on the majority of the major game concepts in all the game info sites! W-tee-H, mate?
M
Me,myself,and,I
Guest
The Ship of the line is considerably faster then the frigate.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Who wins battles is not the same as who wins wars.
Being the best at winning a fight isn't much good if you can't get to where the fight needs to be.
Schuesseled
Deity
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- Messages
- 2,081
Exactly - the increased speed is actually nothing to do with the unit: all English ships have that increased oomph!
But just having a bit stronger ranged attack would be a little underwhelming for a UU. Hopefully there's another bonus or less cost as you say. The other English UU is pretty awesome though, so I'm wondering if they've balanced it out with a less amazing second UU? Hopefully not as I want to play as a naval England (how it should be!) and want to Rule The Waves. 
Seeing the trebuchet in Greg's game was quite impressive. Once you get the siege to the front, you can start dealing some serious damage. If you put the ballista on a hill, even if it's one tile too far away from the city, you can easily weaken or kill the defenders. It's basically like an archer with 3x the strength. With 6 iron, I'd probably build 4 legions and 2 ballistas (maybe a few spearmen) and go conquer the world.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Ballista are going to be good, but I kinda wonder if it might just be overkill for the period. Greg's Trebuchet took about three hits to kill a Rifleman. I'm thinking it might have taken two to kill a Pikeman. I'm going to assume Catapults are the same for the Ancient age (2 hits to kill). It's all but impossible that the Ballista will kill units with one hit. That would mean that, when fighting against units, the extra damage is just wasted. It would be great against cities, though.
Of course, I'm assuming a lot here. I'm assuming Greg's Trebuchet did comparable damage to other Trebuchet (which is a big assumption because it was heavily promoted). I'm assuming Catapults are similar with ancient units (another assumption). Overall, I feel I don't know enough about ranged combat to truly appreciate this unit. I know ranged units will be powerful and this one will be among the best, but that's all I know.
Of course, I'm assuming a lot here. I'm assuming Greg's Trebuchet did comparable damage to other Trebuchet (which is a big assumption because it was heavily promoted). I'm assuming Catapults are similar with ancient units (another assumption). Overall, I feel I don't know enough about ranged combat to truly appreciate this unit. I know ranged units will be powerful and this one will be among the best, but that's all I know.
The advantage to the extra power, even if it is not enough to kill, is that the follow-up attack from your melee units will be against a relatively weaker unit and thus make the kill easier and - against anyone but Japan - decrease the amount of damage your unit is likely to take.
To be fair, Greg's trebuchet had accuracy 1-3 as well, which means something like 60% or more to strength.
But unless there's one-hit kills of units with attack force to spare, ballistas can't be overkill. I won't complain if they bring a defender down to 2, so that my legion only has to look at the guy funny before he collapses.
[edit: ninja'ed]
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
OK, you both make good points. I wasn't thinking about weakening units, but that does make sense (especially because you can then crush them with your Legions 
).
).2), your half wrong, there is no damage cap placed on any units.
Well as far as we know, but we have seen naval ships kill, air units kill, siege units kill, ranged units kill, melee units kill, missiles kill, giant walking mech's kill. I don't think we will have the limitations of previous titles where siege units or air units were overpowered and had damage limited.
Prof_longhair
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2010
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- 16
They could fire and then move if they were set up from the turn before, correct? Firing takes a movement point, but doesn't end the turn correct?
Olleus
Deity
Attacking always ends your turn, apart from a few special cavalry unit.
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