SGOTM 12 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

Brian Shanahan said:

I was going to ask you a question which got swallowed by the server so I'll ask now, can I call you Scotty?

Yes I think lotsa micro in our futures (well maybe not mine, I'm seeing beer there).

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Well, you can if you like. Its my middle name, and where my family comes from.

Do we need warp speed in 3 minutes or we all dead?

Beer, yes.

Where are the workers? I can't see them on the screenie. The micro says one should be on each gold. Is that correct??

I have thought about a few options.

1) Send the first settler to the southernmost tip of our peninsula. If we give this city to degaulle in exchange for peace, we could then work towards taking all of his other cities, use Axe's or HA's. In the long term, I would back our Creative trait and A-M's culture head start to keep degaulles city from ever claming the copper & rice. If he manages to found more cities after that, we just take them.

2) Research Archery instead of Pottery, it will be researched at about the same time as S-L is founded. S-L & A-M build archers instead of the first WB & Granary. Degaulle will see us the turn we settle, and probably start building a stack. I would back Archers to defend us until we get HA's and Axes online. The wrokers would have to stick to the plan to settle S-L.


EDIT: Actually, I think a combination of these ideas is what I will try first. Stick to the plan upto settling S-L, except for researching Archery instead of Pottery. A-M to build Archers. S-L to stick to the plan, and build the WB. Workers would stick to the micro upto t60, and go to the copper instead of to the elephants.

Sorry about the delay, I had to go to open house for my stepdaughter's school. Here are more screenies, including a surprise. BTW, I had to select something for tech, so went with Fishing. Somehow I can see us changing that...

Same overview shot:


Our home:


Civics:


It's nice being loved...


However, here's an interesting surprise...


Tech situation:


Buffy log


CivFanatics Log:

Any chance De Gaulle would take that same peace offer?

ChrisShaffer said:

Any chance De Gaulle would take that same peace offer?

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No one else would consider peace yet. DeG can't do tech trades yet, no Alpha.

neilmeister said:

Where are the workers? I can't see them on the screenie. The micro says one should be on each gold. Is that correct??

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Yes, that is correct. I zoomed out too far I guess.

Thats awesome. If we can get Gandhi to accept peace with those techs, then we can hopefully get Alpha from him after we tech HBR.

We will hopefully get Hinduism from him, which means by the time we have HBR, he will hopefullt trade with us.

HBR, with maybe writing, pottery. Then we can make peace with everyone else !

Yeah, while 3 techs is fairly steep for peace, I think in this game giving Gandhi them three just to get him off our backs and to try building a relationship is a good idea. He's not going to do much with BW, though it may keep him alive against an early rush by another AI.

Brian Shanahan said:

Yeah, while 3 techs is fairly steep for peace, I think in this game giving Gandhi them three just to get him off our backs and to try building a relationship is a good idea. He's not going to do much with BW, though it may keep him alive against an early rush by another AI.

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Sounds like a plan. I was surprised to see him willing to make peace when I ran through the diplomacy checks. It makes me think we'll be able to make peace more broadly once we have alpha, and we've got the tech rate (thanks to the Gold) to get it quicker than in most games.

I haven't been able to get on the forum much, but wanted to let you know I'm playing with micro. I expect to have a lot of time this evening to work out some scenarios. Has anyone else done some micro?

I think our primary questions are:

1) Do we detour from our planned tech path to get horseback riding and archery? Or do we simply hook the copper, build some axes, and research fishing/pottery/writing first? I haven't worked out an answer to this yet - I think it will depend on the micro.

2) Do we trade three techs to Gandhi for peace? I vote yes. I think we'll be able to trade horseback riding to Gandhi for Alphabet. And one of the keys to winning a space race fast is having AI who can keep up with the tech and are willing to trade key, expensive techs in the midgame.

3) What is our worker micro? Some testing and plan posting will help answer this question.

4) Will De Gaulle build a second city? Or will we need to gift a junk city to him so we can take his capital?

ChrisShaffer said:

I haven't been able to get on the forum much, but wanted to let you know I'm playing with micro. I expect to have a lot of time this evening to work out some scenarios. Has anyone else done some micro?

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I expect to get a chance tonight to do so. I believe I am up next, so I want familiarize myself with our situation in-(test)game, anyway.

I think our primary questions are:

1) Do we detour from our planned tech path to get horseback riding and archery? Or do we simply hook the copper, build some axes, and research fishing/pottery/writing first? I haven't worked out an answer to this yet - I think it will depend on the micro.

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Agreed. It will depend on how quickly we can get units up and running, and whether the cost is worth the detour.

2) Do we trade three techs to Gandhi for peace? I vote yes. I think we'll be able to trade horseback riding to Gandhi for Alphabet. And one of the keys to winning a space race fast is having AI who can keep up with the tech and are willing to trade key, expensive techs in the midgame.

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Again, agreed. The sooner we get out of the world war scenario the better for a space race win.

4) Will De Gaulle build a second city? Or will we need to gift a junk city to him so we can take his capital?

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We should check this is in the test game, but it all depends on what the AI land is like in the real game. It's possible we could prompt him tho settle a second city by scrubbing a tile in the desired location.

I think it's still drlake's turnset. He only played 16 turns.

Ah, my mistake. I thought we were playing to designated end points rather than a designated number of turns.

(The "Post Quick Reply" button appears to be taunting me.)

ChrisShaffer said:

I think it's still drlake's turnset. He only played 16 turns.

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Oh, don't worry about that. I'm right in the middle of switching everything over to a new computer anyway, so don't mind if Trystero picks up a few of my turns. I'm sure I'll get plenty as the game goes on.

I've been playing a few scenarios.
I still think we should be sticking to the build and work plan upto the revolution, Sto-Lat is just a great site and we we want it as soon as possible.

DeGaulle always sends in a small stack around t90-95, unless we are already in peace. It didn't matter what I was defending with. Once he sends it in, he wont take peace until the stack is almost dead.

He would only take HBR and Alpha for peace. So, its basically a race to HBR/Alpha. We should detour into Archery before HBR just so we can build a few decent units when A-M runs out of things to build.
I think we should stick with the plan, insert Archery before HBR, then ALpahbet. As soon as Alpha is in, trade techs for peace with everyone. Only now will we trade HBR to Gandhi for anything. As long as I did this when I got Alpha, we were safe from DeGaulle.
Build a few archers before the second settler. After the settler is built, a worker, barracks, units/workers.....
Sto-Lat to build the 2 WB and then a Library. Sto-Lat should provide the first GS, IMO.

Worker micro is the same upto t59, both worker1 & 2 then go to connect the copper before scrubbing Sto-Helit. Brian was right, the Rice is very important to getting A-M from pop 3 to 6 very quickly. The horses first as well, as an insurace, they don't need scrubbing and just in case we need the extra production or chariots/HA's.

I'm starting to think Neil is right - sticking with the plan through revolution seems the best for me too. Almost everything else actually leaves us with less opportunity to build military, or hobbles our empire to the point of being silly.

Here is a new test save. I've given De Gaulle the correct amount of culture, made Paris the Buddhist holy city and put Paris in the right location. I've also flagged the tiles that De Gaulle can currently see.

I'm going to keep testing...

I'm not sure how the Gandhi tech trading thing will work. He doesn't appear to have Writing.

OK, I'm still working on the micro, but I think we are in pretty good shape. This save was a slight bit sloppy, but shows what we can do. On turn 83, we have: 2 axe, 2 archer, 3 warrior, 1 experienced (stable) horse archer, 4 workers, 3 cities, and traded horseback riding to De Gaulle for peace. With a bit more care to the micro, we could do this perhaps 1-2 turns faster.

To be honest, at this point, our army is big enough I don't even know if we need to give De Gaulle horseback riding. I'd rather just attack and take Paris.

That's much better than what I was working on, Chris. Probably because I neglected to use the whip, which was probably the point of revolting to slavery... I will go over your micro in detail later (after I get some sleep) but that sounds promising.

One thing I noticed in the test game is that Gandhi was willing to give us peace for just AH and BW. I also got Writing faster than in Neil's test, but that probably due to the discount from Gandhi teching it after the tech trade.