Rocket artillery keep requires setup

In general, keeping a promotion from an earlier stage is better for you, that's what i meant, why it partially makes sense.
Okay..."making sense" or "intended" are maybe the wrong words, but it works like the files say it should work.
 
I have the same annoying problem, i've started an invasion with a four rocket artillery back line and one of those was upgraded so only that one requires a one movement expenditure on setting up despite the promises ;)
 
The_J said:
In general, keeping a promotion from an earlier stage is better for you, that's what i meant, why it partially makes sense.
Okay..."making sense" or "intended" are maybe the wrong words, but it works like the files say it should work.
Click to expand...

So the Civilopedia is wrong? Could also be a something that a designer missed while playing. Since it isn't that much gamebreaking, other then you miss one movement of your unit, I'm sure that it will be fixed sometime.
 
I think this is their view of "transparency", to make all abilities function through promotions, rather than having both promotions and inherent abilities. Unfortunately, it doesn't work well, because all promotions get kept, even nonsensical ones.
 
Moderator Action: Threads merged.

Hitman Zeus said:
So the Civilopedia is wrong? Could also be a something that a designer missed while playing. Since it isn't that much gamebreaking, other then you miss one movement of your unit, I'm sure that it will be fixed sometime.
Click to expand...

They missed a ton of things, i'm not supprised that his one was missed.

And why should the civilopedia be wrong (i don't have access to it)?

Ahriman said:
I think this is their view of "transparency", to make all abilities function through promotions, rather than having both promotions and inherent abilities. Unfortunately, it doesn't work well, because all promotions get kept, even nonsensical ones.
Click to expand...

Exactly this :yup:.
 
I upgraded an artillery into a rocket artillery and it requires set-up. If you didn't know Rocket artillery don't require set-up prior to attack.
 

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The_J said:
In general, keeping a promotion from an earlier stage is better for you, that's what i meant, why it partially makes sense.
Okay..."making sense" or "intended" are maybe the wrong words, but it works like the files say it should work.
Click to expand...
That in itself is a good thing, when it comes to promotions. Here they've actually used a promotion to create a certain generic game design and if a later unit doesn't require said game design, it shouldn't propagate.
 
Sorry, didn't notice there was already a thread about this.

Even if intended, it should be fixed. Doesn't make sense that an upgraded unit keeps the "set-up" and a newly built doesn't. They are both the same unit type, they should be identical.
 
Upgrading artillery to rocket artilley is bugged, the new rocket unit can't fire before setting up for ranged attack like it's supposed to. I'm not sure if this is due to the unit I upgraded came from a city state or if it's all artillery to rocket artillery upgrades.

Moderator Action: Threads merged. The_J
 
The_J said:
And why should the civilopedia be wrong (i don't have access to it)?
Click to expand...
Cause it states rocket artillery does not need setting up to fire. And "if it's in XML it's not a bug" is not a very convincing excuse.
 
As a related note, with good promos being kept on upgrade it is possible to stack things like visibility upgrades. I no longer have a save available, but in my first game I built 2 caravels, and upgraded them both to destroyers. They kept their old +2 sight, and gained the new destroyer +3 sight, for +5 sight total, revealing most of whatever ocean they happened to be in. While keeping things like scout movement on upgrade to archers (through city ruins) seems like intended behavior, stacking "like" bonuses does not.
 
There is a workaround to fix this issue. In the Civ5UnitPromotions.xml you can edit the different promotions themselves. Steps:

0. Backup anything you plan to change.
1. Open the Civ5UnitPromotions.xml file in the ../Assets/Gameplay/XML/Units/ folder.
2. Find <Type>PROMOTION_MUST_SET_UP</Type> entry.
3. Add the line <LostWithUpgrade>true</LostWithUpgrade> under the <sound> line.
4. Save file.

This will remove the unit "promotion" when you upgrade. Even better, the unit adds its new promotions after old ones are removed, so if you upgrade a cannon to an artillery the artillery will still have to set up to make a ranged fire. However, the promotion will be removed for the MRA, then not re-added because it is not inherent to the MRA unit.
 
The trouble with modifying the base game files is the changes will be lost when any official patches are applied. Granted, this is high on the list of likely changes with said patch, but it seems like a non-ideal solution in general.

That said, there are many mods out there already that fix this issue, including the unofficial patch.
 
Patch 1.0.0.62 did not fix this problem... upgraded like 10 artillery to rockets and still required setup.
 
HeavyTwenty said:
Patch 1.0.0.62 did not fix this problem... upgraded like 10 artillery to rockets and still required setup.
Click to expand...

Yea I'm really pissed off by this, I mean how hard is it for them to change an XML.
The only reason I believe it's not fixed is that their testers didn't reported it...a bunch of mindless zombies, what can I say.:c5unhappy:
 
I'd like to add the same thing happens with chariot archers who upgrade to knights. They keep their rough terrain penalty promotion.

I think promotions like rough terrain penalty and must set-up before firing are more mechanical abilities rather than "real" promotions and so shouldn't be kept whereas promotions like ignores terrain movement costs or heals if kills a unit is more of an ability down to the individuals that compose the unit and so should be kept if you have the same people with upgraded equipment.
 
The_J said:
Moderator Action: Threads merged.

Okay Firaxis, it doesn't matter that it's not a bug, please fix it.
Click to expand...

It is a bug. It's a bug in the XML. Using your previous statement, you could justify that nothing was a bug since "that's how it's expressed in the code, therefore it must be the design."

I'm guessing it's not as easy as just setting that promotion to expire on upgrade. If you did that, it would probably be removed when you upgraded catapults to trebuchet, which is of course wrong.

Edit: Incidentally, it's decisions like this that make me feel extremely disappointed in the craftsmanship that appears to have gone into Civ V. This is exactly the sort of thing that should've been caught at the design level, when they decided to make (almost) all unit abilities act as promotions, well before a single unit had been coded.
 
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