The new patch seems to have arrived

My mod saved game on Shigs map wit RED loaded fine .. noticed when you save now it fills in the name for you..

I had slight micro stutters before when scrolling around the map whilst the AI took its turn, seems smooth now but it could be placebo
 
And that's bad why?

Increasing the gold from hammer rate to 25% did not completely overcome the problem, and disbanding scouts was still more efficient. If they had increased, it to 40% or more, building units just to disband would no longer be viable but obviously they felt that 40% was too good a conversion rate. I tend to agree too.



These are not likely objectives they were trying to achieve. What they wanted to fix were:
1) It being more efficient to disband units after building them than to simply build wealth. This ensured tedious micromanagement for those trying to optimise their game, just like the lack of beaker overflow on techs.
2) Disbanding units providing too much gold or building wealth at 40% conversion is too good. Either way, reducing the disband gold and setting wealth to 25% conversion rate covers both objectives.

By first part of the solution I meant keep the "Reduce gold gained from disbanding" change and don't increase wealth production by another 15% which simply affect way to many aspects of the game.
 
Now you can pave off everything with trading posts AND get more gold from the meager ammount of hammers you were already collecting.

A simple Workshop +1hammer change isn't going to make production a valid tactic vs Trade Post Spam and GOLD massing. It needs to be followed by more meaningful tile improvements on yield AND adjustment of Hammers required for production.

How much production were you getting out of your cities, anyhow? What was 10% of that? If you think there was too little production in the game (I tend to agree), then I don't understand the complaint. What's the difference then if you're getting 10% of jack squat or 25% of jack squat?
 
Does anyone have a save file that was created in the Deluxe version that they are certain doesn't include Babylon?

I do. I have a game that is Songhai, India (eliminated), Siam (eliminated), Iroquois, and America, created in the Deluxe version, and it fails to load. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the game loads civilizations' information even if that civilization is not present in the game.


Otherwise, you'd issues like having to spend time loading a civilization's assets in the middle of a game if there was some trigger that spawned a Ballista in a game without Rome, along with other funny stuff.
 
I have the Deluxe version and the new patch. I can load a save file that doesn't include Babylon. That was a game created by someone else (I was bug testing) and so may not have been created with the Deluxe version. I then tried to load a game that I created. Got a runtime error/CTD. Used Steam to verify the integrity of my local cache. No help. Deleted my local cache files. No help. Since I can't load the game, and since I don't remember whether or not Babylon was present, there seems to be two possible explanations for this problem:

1. Games created with the Deluxe version that include Babylon won't load in version 1.0.0.62, or

2. No games that were created with the Deluxe version will load in version 1.0.0.62.

Does anyone have a save file that was created in the Deluxe version that they are certain doesn't include Babylon?

Also, one minor change that's not in the release notes: I'm no longer prompted whether to start the game in DX11 or DX9 mode. It automatically starts in DX9, which is correct for my system.
I can say more: I have a game that was created in a Regular edition ( so , no babylon ), played 50 turns in Deluxe edition and saved there under .20 that does not load in .62. Save is posted here

About the prompt... Mine works well and has two more options, besides the DX9 and 10/11 : Explore deluxe soundtrack and Explore behind the scenes video
 
@Toady,

Increasing the yield from building wealth makes hammer tiles/improvements stronger (not by much of course) - not gold improvements. It also makes the alternatives of what you could build with those hammers a bit weaker. Presumably this is the point you are trying to get at.

EDIT
And considering that 25% is still a pretty poor conversion rate, along with disband gold being lower now, I think in general there is going to be less gold available to the player on average, so I don't agree (yet) that they have simply made the gold part of the game more important. Before you could effectively convert 40% of hammers to gold via the disband-scout method. Now the best you can get is 25% via building wealth. So overall building wealth has been nerfed in favour of making the alternatives stronger.
 
How much production were you getting out of your cities, anyhow? What was 10% of that? If you think there was too little production in the game (I tend to agree), then I don't understand the complaint. What's the difference then if you're getting 10% of jack squat or 25% of jack squat?

I am not saying it's going to be a difference of 20 Gold per turn per city.

I am just saying that it's a step in the opposite direction from the one that they should, in my opinion, be moving towards.
 
I am not saying it's going to be a difference of 20 Gold per turn per city.

I am just saying that it's a step in the opposite direction from the one that they should, in my opinion, be moving towards.

To me, it makes creating production in your city more desirable, because the hammers are more flexible.
 
How much production were you getting out of your cities, anyhow? What was 10% of that? If you think there was too little production in the game (I tend to agree), then I don't understand the complaint. What's the difference then if you're getting 10% of jack squat or 25% of jack squat?

You have to remember the ICS problem --

I wasn't generally getting more than 1 to 2 gold per city -- but if you're playing a huge map with latticed ICS, it scaled rather quickly.

You have to do something with the queues under ICS -- there is no "build nothing" option.... gold was still exploitative, but at least somewhat nerfed "build nothing" option.

I believe this is a value somewhere in the XML, no? So I suppose I could just change it back... but one cannot just 'nibble' at big balance and exploit problems.

I fear that they'll end up chasing their tales if they go about patching in this manner -- nip off individual exploits that touch multiple dimensions, while unintentionally making other milder exploits worse.
 
I am not saying it's going to be a difference of 20 Gold per turn per city.

I am just saying that it's a step in the opposite direction from the one that they should, in my opinion, be moving towards.

In the edit to my prev post, I say that they have actually nerfed 'build wealth', from 40% (via disband-scouts) to 25% (via new build wealth rate). This means they have actually changed the balance in the direction you desire.

Focusing on the change from 10% to 25% is actually missing the point, because no one used the 10% conversion - they used the 40% conversion from scouts.


You have to remember the ICS problem --

I wasn't generally getting more than 1 to 2 gold per city -- but if you're playing a huge map with latticed ICS, it scaled rather quickly.

You have to do something with the queues under ICS -- there is no "build nothing" option.... gold was still exploitative, but at least somewhat nerfed "build nothing" option.

I believe this is a value somewhere in the XML, no? So I suppose I could just change it back... but one cannot just 'nibble' at big balance and exploit problems.

I fear that they'll end up chasing their tales if they go about patching in this manner -- nip off individual exploits that touch multiple dimensions, while unintentionally making other milder exploits worse.
I think there is no need to fear this, for reasons explained in this post and my previous one.
 
Yeah, everything from the graphics to the interface to the loading of the game appears to be faster. Good for my laptop.
Disagree. Only the graphics (units movements) go faster.
I haven't seen any progress in loading, setting up a new game or IBT.

Forgot to mention, the patch notes show the visual artifact (red dots) problem has been fixed, but I still have red dots. I'm on dx9.
Confirmed.
 
Also, I realize this thread is about the patch changes, but to the debate about production and such:

Despite what some people say, city placement is a very big deal, especially for production. On most maps, I'll refuse to use any city that isn't on the coast and doesn't have a good source of hammers immediately available. Later on, you can overcome low production (especially if you just dump 2000 gold on it to buy starter buildings), but without a good start, the city just takes too long to get going.

Of course, you also have to make sure you don't ignore growth entirely, unless you're using Maritime City States and such, or you'll still have a struggling city.

Money is great, because it can be used to fix about every problem. It makes sense that the coin of the realm is the coin of the realm. The issue was that excess money could be used to address low production and to a lesser degree, low growth, but it was harder for high production to address low money (without the disbanding nonsense), in their estimation.

The goal is that you can use your strengths to compensate for your weaknesses (I have tons of hammers but low gold -> I can use my hammers to make some gold), but not to use your strength to do your weakness better. i.e., having lots of gold can help low production by rush-buying stuff, but ultimately, rush-buying shouldn't be as good at producing buildings as having high production. That's what they're aiming for, I'm sure, but they're not there yet.
 
Focusing on the change from 10% to 25% is actually missing the point, because no one used the 10% conversion - they used the 40% conversion from scouts.

Raises hand!

I did - and I was still swimming in gold via ICS.
 
To me, it makes creating production in your city more desirable, because the hammers are more flexible.

Well the only thing you can't buy with gold are the courthouse, wonders and spaceship parts.

You can buy all the units with gold, you can upgrade them with gold, you can buy tiles with gold, you can buy buildings, you can buy relationship with CS, you can buy resources from Trading.

The Social Policies that affect the purchasing power of Wealth are much stronger than those that benefit hammer yields.

Gold atm is in my opinion the thing to go for. And how this patch goes about ... it makes no effort to change that.
 
Also, are those red dots a visual bug? Haha, I thought they were little blobs of lava or some cave-paintings or something on hillsides. Props to my imagination, I guess!
 
Raises hand!

I did - and I was still swimming in gold via ICS.

Well at least then they've taken a step in the right direction. If you had been playing optimally, it would be a nerf. Since you weren't playing optimally, we have the unusual situation that you will be earning perhaps more gold than before.

I don't see that as a problem with the direction of the change in the patch. But you could argue the patch did not go far enough. At least now, you can be confident that with the strategy you adopt, it is more optimal than the much more tedious method of build-disbanding units.


Well the only thing you can't buy with gold are the courthouse, wonders and spaceship parts.

You can buy all the units with gold, you can upgrade them with gold, you can buy tiles with gold, you can buy buildings, you can buy relationship with CS, you can buy resources from Trading.

The Social Policies that affect the purchasing power of Wealth are much stronger than those that benefit hammer yields.

Gold atm is in my opinion the thing to go for. And how this patch goes about ... it makes no effort to change that.

See my previous two posts. In effect, build wealth has been nerfed from 40% conversion to 25%. Therefore this patch clearly goes some way (though only a tiny amount I admit!) to making hammers collected from tiles more valuable than gold collected from tiles. EDIT... I think I have this backwards - my bad. too tired to think :lol:

If you are essentially saying that the patch did not go far enough in the direction it took, I might agree with you, though I will need to test the game to see first.
 

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