Sex grooming cases spark racial tensions

Gary Childress

Student for and of life
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
4,480
Location
United Nations
I have a bad feeling about where this thread might go but I saw this in the news this evening and had to do a double take on it just to be sure I was seeing what I thought.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Is this something common? What do others think of this? Because a few Asian Muslim men might be scumbags, does that mean whites should categorize all Asian Muslim men so? Aren't there also white scumbags out there who do stuff like this as well? What factor exactly does race play in this case, if any? Shoudn't the guilty be punished as deserved and leave it at that? Is race really important here?

Please try your best to keep it civil and remember that we at CFC are a diverse group.

Thanks.



Sex grooming cases spark racial tensions

GREGORY KATZ
From Associated Press
July 01, 2012 12:18 AM EDT
ROCHDALE, England (AP) — She was lonely in the way only an adolescent girl can be: No friends, no boyfriend, not much of a relationship with her parents. So she felt special when a man decades older paid attention to her, bought her trinkets, gave her free booze.

Then he took her to a dingy room above a kebab shop and said she had to give something back in return. His demands grew: Not just sex with him, but with his friends. It went on for years, until police charged nine men with running a sex ring with underage girls.

The story of Girl A, as she became known in court, is tragic by any measure, but it has also become explosive. Because there is no getting around it: The girls are white, and the men who used them as sex toys are Asian Muslims, mostly Pakistanis raised in Britain. And it's not just Rochdale -- roughly a dozen other cases of Asian Muslim men accused of grooming young white girls for sex are slowly moving to trial across northern England, involving up to several hundred girls in all.

In today's Britain, which prides itself on being a tolerant and integrated society, the case has stripped away the skin to expose the racial sores festering beneath. It is also feeding an already raw anger against the country's Asian Muslim minority, in a movement led by far right groups at a time when the economy is stalled.

"You can't get away from the race element," says prosecutor Nazir Afzal, a British Muslim with family roots in Pakistan who ended several years of official indifference to the girls' plight and finally brought the perpetrators to trial. "It's the elephant in the room."

_______

From a distance, Rochdale looks like a picture-perfect English city, with the 800-year-old Parish Church of St. Chad perched high above the streets, and the Victorian Gothic Town Hall just below, its clock tower resembling the one that houses London's Big Ben.

Up close the flaws become clear. Like missing teeth in an otherwise sparkling smile, a fair number of downtown shops are boarded up, or have been turned into pawn shops or dueling "pound shops" where almost all items cost 1 pound ($1.60) or less.

The Pakistani community started to grow half a century ago, when the town's cottons mills were flourishing. The newcomers, most of them from poor rural villages, were drawn by the promise of steady jobs and a chance to educate their children in English schools.

A number of mosques became part of the skyline, particularly the showcase Golden Mosque, winner of several design awards. Today, Muslim men wearing beards and decorated caps and women in black robes and veils are a constant presence on the downtown streets.

Nearly 1 million Pakistanis live in England — far more than in any other European country — with about 25,000 settled in the greater Manchester area that includes Rochdale. The government's equality commission reports that more than half of the Pakistanis in Britain live in poverty, far more than the general population, with just under 75 percent having no formal savings.

They face hard times now. The closed shops are signs of a double-dip recession that has hit northern England harder than the more affluent south, which includes London, with its financial district and well-to-do suburbs.

The mills have long since closed; the local newspaper trumpets gloom and doom: A tripling in the number of homeless, a sharp rise in youth unemployment, more people seeking housing benefits.

Even the local McDonald's, long a fixture in the town center, has moved out.

It was in this environment that Girl A lost control one summer night in 2008.

After drinking heavily, the 15-year-old went to the kebab shop in nearby Heywood where she had first met her "boyfriend." She started screaming and busting the place up. When police were called, she told them she had been raped -- repeatedly -- and offered up her semen-stained underwear as proof.

Greater Manchester Police detectives concluded the girl, who was below the age of consent, was telling the truth, but Crown Prosecution Service lawyers recommended against pressing criminal charges, reasoning that the jury might not believe a troubled, hard-drinking, sexually active young girl. The case was quietly dropped after an 11-month inquiry.

The abuse intensified. The ring of predators grew; the circle of victims widened. Eventually there would be at least 47 victims or witnesses.

The girl was driven around at night, forced to have sex with more and more men, sometimes up to five a day, in cars or restaurant backrooms or grubby apartments. The men threatened her if she complained. There seemed to be no escape.

She was trapped in a secret world of sex acts that took place late at night when most people in Rochdale were safely tucked away in their homes.

_________

The Rochdale men do not fit the classic profile for sex offenders in Britain -- the majority of pedophilia crimes are committed by white men who target boys and girls via the Internet. However, there is a consensus among prosecutors, police, social workers and leading national politicians that "street grooming," which happened in Rochdale, is largely dominated by Asian men.

Ella Cockbain, a University College of London crime science specialist, says research shows that mostly Asian men make up the big groups of offenders who work together. She chooses her words carefully because the sample size is small and the topic sensitive.

"There are definite patterns emerging that would be foolish to ignore," she says.

Mohammed Shafiq, a British Pakistani who directs the Ramadhan Foundation in Rochdale, has angered some in his own community by suggesting that police at first did not pursue the case aggressively for fear of appearing racist because of an obsession "with the doctrine of political correctness."

Shafiq says that a "tiny minority" of Pakistani men feel white girls are worthless and immoral — and can be abused with impunity.

"They know if they took someone from the Asian community, it pretty quickly is going to be found out," he says. "But those white girls are available, so they think they can get away with it."

The men in the Rochdale sex ring were remarkable only in their ordinariness. They were part of British life, but on the fringes — the sort of people most Britons don't really notice when they pass them on the street.

Many were taxi drivers, accustomed to working all-night shifts with long down time between fares, and they frequented the late-night kebab takeout shops offering familiar lamb, chicken and falafel dishes. Their cab stands and the kebab shops were often the only businesses that remained open after the bars closed.

Most of the men were first or second generation Pakistanis raised mainly in Britain. Only one had faced previous sex charges: Ringleader Shabir Ahmed, at 59 the oldest in the group, who was accused of repeatedly raping a young girl in a separate case. Ahmed, known to the girls as "Daddy," was convicted of 30 counts of rape in that case last week.

Some of the men had families and small businesses. The ring included Abdul Rauf, 43, who would later claim to have experience as a Muslim preacher, which local Islamic leaders dismiss as a total fabrication. A few had ongoing contacts with local politicians.

The men were neither affluent nor dirt poor. They lived outwardly stable lives but had few obvious prospects for advancement.

They were finally brought to justice after health workers reported a large increase in the number of underage girls in the Rochdale area claiming to have suffered sexual abuse. The next year, Afzal, the new regional chief of the Crown Prosecution Service, reversed the earlier decision by prosecutors and decided to press the case in court, with Girl A at its core.

"It was a no-brainer," Afzal told the Associated Press. "She was immensely credible. And the police now had evidence of a wide network."

Eleven men were charged with offenses ranging from rape to conspiracy, and police suspect more were involved. The men had such psychological power over the girls that even during the trial, one girl talked of a defendant as her boyfriend.

Parliament has launched an inquiry based in part on reports that the abuse is far more widespread than originally thought. Afzal said his office is handling roughly a dozen other similar cases, including one that involves 13 men accused of operating a sex ring with 24 girls.

Afzal says that as a Muslim he is sickened by the crimes.

"Rape and alcohol and abuse are not part of Islam," he says. "Just because they have a beard and go to the mosque doesn't make them good Muslims."

_____________

As the Rochdale trial reached court, the issue of race and religion burst into the open.

One far-right protester carried a sign making reference to the meat favored by many observant Muslims because it meets strict religious guidelines. "Our girls are not Halal meat," the sign read.

Inside the court, Ahmed, a key defendant, fought back hard. He accused the all-white jury of racism. He accused one girl of thinking whites were superior, and denigrated them all as greedy money seekers. And he accused white society of neglecting its girls and tolerating, even encouraging, bad behavior.

"You white people train them in sex and drinking, so when they come to us they are fully trained," he said.

The jury found nine men guilty and set two free. Judge Gerald Clifton articulated what many felt but were reluctant to say out loud when he accused the men of treating white girls as worthless because "they were not of your community or religion." Then he sentenced them to a total of 77 years in prison.

The May verdict further polarized Rochdale. Pakistanis were horrified at the stigma on their community and enraged that the men claimed to be Muslim.

"They are playing the Muslim card, pretending they are good Muslims, but they are not," says Irfan Chishti, who runs an educational program at one of the town's mosques. "This was a great sin under Islam. If Sharia law was in place, the punishment would be very severe."

Even while he and other leaders of the Rochdale Council of Mosques were discussing the case, about 40 protesters from the far-right British National Party held an unauthorized rally on the nearby Town Hall steps. The far right has seized on the case, claiming that some British Pakistanis follow a code they believe is practiced in parts of the Islamic world that allows men to have sex with girls under 16.

Louis Kushnick, founder of the race relations resource center at the University of Manchester, said it has become convenient for white residents — including those beyond the far-right movement — to blame Muslims for the sex crimes.

"You hear people talking about this, and it becomes tied to Islam," he says. "People say they are Muslim men, they see women as inferior, they have contempt for white women, so it has nothing to do with the rest of us."

That view overlooks all the problems that left the girls vulnerable in the first place, he says, citing a deficient school system and a government-backed child care regime riddled with neglect and abuse. And he says the prolonged economic downturn has intensified resentments, with whites and Asians competing for the same "crap" jobs.

"Blaming the Muslims lets us avoid addressing these questions," he says. "Once we blame 'The Other,' we think we have an explanation that makes sense."

Many in Rochdale are wary about discussing the case. Graduate student Heather Eyre, 25, says the trial has badly divided the city.

"It shouldn't have mattered that they are Pakistani," she says of the abusers. "But it's stirred up hatred. Some say they should be deported, and some parts of the Asian community say the jury was racist. Then the far-right groups came in...this case has been good for the English Defense League."

__________

The girl who first told police about the abuse, now a young woman of 19, has moved out of the area. In a brief pooled interview before she withdrew from the public eye, she refused to call the crimes against her racial in nature, but said she was shocked Muslims would commit such acts.

She said that in 2008, when the grooming began, there was no awareness of this type of crime involving Asian men and white girls.

"Now it's going on everywhere," she said. "You think of Muslim men as religious and family-minded and just nice people. You don't think...I don't know...You just don't think they'd do things like that."

When the abuse started, she said, she felt anger and shame, then became resigned and, finally, numb.

"After a while it had been going for so long and so many different men that it became like I didn't feel anything towards it anymore," she said. "It just weren't me anymore. It just became something I had to do....Once you're in it, you're trapped. I just think what they did to me was evil."

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20120630/14346a5f-55b8-41bc-a396-275a76bb01fd
 
Oh yes, I remember this in the news a few weeks back.

No, it isn't confined to "Asian Muslims". No way.

I think they concluded it was just as - if not more - prevalent among "White English" but that they tended to be individuals doing it, rather than in a gang as in Rochdale. (A place I have been fairly well acquainted with in the past.)

And yes, mostly certainly it has sparked racial tensions. The far right love this.
 
Yeah if you see something like this and attribute it to race you're pretty bloody racist.
 
Well, it wasn't just racism, and the arguments being put forward by people such as Jack Straw were sound - they said that while you can't get away from the fact that this was all about a few totally sick individuals, it's a very valid point that a culture which places very high standards of modesty on its own women will be naturally predisposed to be disdainful towards groups of women who fall very short of those standards. With such an attitude, set-ups like this become more likely: Straw argued that something had to be done to change that outlook. I think he had a point.
 
I feel like everybody is failing to use the lens that focusses this entire mess most clearly.

1) As already said White men do this too. Duh. We all know that pimps will pick on vulnerable young girls and groom them into becoming prostitutes -- that is how prostitution has worked for a century now. Prostitution is a really god damn ugly business, and this isn't exactly a new phenomenon, let alone one that is unique to Asian men. We don't seem to do very well at locking up white pimps who groom girls either.

2) This is yet another case of the police refusing to protect women, and ignoring sexual violence against women. We all know that prosecution rates are appallingly low for rape, and we know that the police force is often understaffed and underfunded. We know that the police will sometimes prioritise their work and prosecution in favour of certain groups (read Rich White Men), to the detriment of others. This is further evidence that sexual violence against women is given short shrift by the police.

3) As Flying Pig said, the ultra-conservative nature of some Pakistani immigrants, which sees women as inferior and Western women as "sluts", is a huge part of the problem. And this clearly isn't confined to Muslims either -- the ultra-conservative religious views in America that manifest as "slut shaming" have engendered a culture that is rather ambivalent to crimes against women. When I say that some conservative legislators would be more at home in Saudi Arabia, I mean that as an indictment of both the West (usually America) and Saudi Arabia. As long as conservatives see women who have sex before marriage as sluts who are "asking for it", we'll have endemic sexual violence against women. The conservative culture in Egypt causes the same problems as the conservative culture here -- we're just less-bad.

What this case demonstrates is how god damn awful we are at preventing sexual violence against women. The police let it happen, the courts let it happen, society lets it happen, because by and large we look at things in completely the wrong way. What the University of Manchester lady said was right:

"You hear people talking about this, and it becomes tied to Islam," he says. "People say they are Muslim men, they see women as inferior, they have contempt for white women, so it has nothing to do with the rest of us."

That view overlooks all the problems that left the girls vulnerable in the first place, he says, citing a deficient school system and a government-backed child care regime riddled with neglect and abuse. And he says the prolonged economic downturn has intensified resentments, with whites and Asians competing for the same "crap" jobs.

"Blaming the Muslims lets us avoid addressing these questions," he says. "Once we blame 'The Other,' we think we have an explanation that makes sense."
Yes, the conservative nature of Islam is partly to blame in this particular case, but it's the complete ignorance of the wider problem of sexual violence against girls and young women that will result in more and more cases like this in the future. This case happened to involve men of Pakistani descent. There are a hundreds more cases that involve men of English descent, or Scottish descent or Welsh descent, or Polish descent, or whatever. But you know what they all have in common? Girls being raped.
 
We know that the police will sometimes prioritise their work and prosecution in favour of certain groups (read Rich White Men), to the detriment of others. This is further evidence that sexual violence against women is given short shrift by the police.

More accurately, the police are forced to prioritise in favour of work which will either meet their (often poorly thought-out) targets, create good PR, or simply reduce the risk to themselves.
 
We know that the police will sometimes prioritise their work and prosecution in favour of certain groups (read Rich White Men), to the detriment of others. This is further evidence that sexual violence against women is given short shrift by the police.

More accurately, the police are forced to prioritise in favour of work which will either meet their (often poorly thought-out) targets, create good PR, or simply reduce the risk to themselves.
 
I'm sorry, I don't know any white men that do this. It really has nothing to do with race either. It has to do with religion, and how their views of women are. There is a religion that is wrong on every level- and it is Islam.

There, I had the balls to say what no one else can say.
 
I'm sorry, I don't know any white men that do this.

...Are you saying that you literally don't believe there are any white pedophile groups?

Also i find your silence on the catholic church (whilst also criticising Islam as a whole) and it's stance not just on women but on the abuse of chilren and the subsequent cover-up, to be rather telling and to be honest, very disturbing.
 
I'm sorry, I don't know any white men that do this. It really has nothing to do with race either. It has to do with religion, and how their views of women are. There is a religion that is wrong on every level- and it is Islam.

There, I had the balls to say what no one else can say.

Lol seriously? As in you don't personally or you don't know of? If the latter, then you must be living under a mountain, if you are going to deny that men of all ethnicities and religions, including white and atheiests, have and do pimp out girls of any age in all countries all over the world. This post only shows you have the balls to make a very ignorant statement.
 
Sadly, there will always be those who try to blame Islam for virtually anything.
 
I'm sorry, I don't know any white men that do this. It really has nothing to do with race either. It has to do with religion, and how their views of women are. There is a religion that is wrong on every level- and it is Islam.

There, I had the balls to say what no one else can say.
At the very least you must read the Qur'an. It is not a long book. I don't think you have read it.
 
They will soon discover what it means to be raped during their time in gaol.
Justice is served.
 
Now that's creepy. And it's no "justice" if it does occur.
 
...Are you saying that you literally don't believe there are any white pedophile groups?

Also i find your silence on the catholic church (whilst also criticising Islam as a whole) and it's stance not just on women but on the abuse of chilren and the subsequent cover-up, to be rather telling and to be honest, very disturbing.

I thought Disgustipated was agnostic. Nonreligious people can't be bigots, can they?
 
Mise said:
3) As Flying Pig said, the ultra-conservative nature of some Pakistani immigrants, which sees women as inferior and Western women as "sluts", is a huge part of the problem. And this clearly isn't confined to Muslims either -- the ultra-conservative religious views in America that manifest as "slut shaming" have engendered a culture that is rather ambivalent to crimes against women. When I say that some conservative legislators would be more at home in Saudi Arabia, I mean that as an indictment of both the West (usually America) and Saudi Arabia. As long as conservatives see women who have sex before marriage as sluts who are "asking for it", we'll have endemic sexual violence against women. The conservative culture in Egypt causes the same problems as the conservative culture here -- we're just less-bad.

Pretty much this.
 
I'm sorry, I don't know any white men that do this. It really has nothing to do with race either. It has to do with religion, and how their views of women are. There is a religion that is wrong on every level- and it is Islam.

There, I had the balls to say what no one else can say.

Hi Disgustipated,

Thank you for being upfront and stating your opinion on the matter. It is to be sure a very difficult matter to come to terms with in a rational way. It's the sort of thing that really stirs emotions especially between races or religions. I'm still a little unsure how to interpret things myself but I think it is obvious that some individuals crossed a line in a big way and deserve rightful punishment for it.

However, I don't think race or religion are truly important to the situation. That the men happened to be Asian Muslim and their victims happened to be white is not so important to what happened. I don't think Islam preaches raping non-Islamic women anymore than Christianity preaches raping non-Christian women. People do tend at times to treat "others" with a bit less respect than their "own". This seems to span all races, religions and creeds. Many of us feel a certain kinship with those who are like us and a certain indifference toward those who aren't. For sure not everyone is like this but many are. This tendency is not relegated to any single group. It's virtually across the board. To be sure few appear to be perfect. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be tolerant and reasonable toward "others".

The perpetrators do indeed deserve to be punished. They committed a crime. But let's not take it any further than that.

I suppose the best we can all do as human beings is to spot our own prejudices and catch ourselves before we do something stupid.
 
Back
Top Bottom