OCC Deity Domination - What civ?

Hi all, as the title says, I'm looking to spend a couple hours to get a start that appears to be deity-occ-domination doable. Settings are as follow:

Pangaea medium water level
Standard civs#/cs#
Only domination victory checked

No enemy civ selection, no teams *maybe* legendary start, not that it matters that much if I am to spend a few hours to get a doable start but for strategic resources maybe...

The poll choices are based on my own opinion. I welcome people picking "other" to further develop their view. I don't think the poll is really relevant however. People arguments about a civ or another in their replies will help me make final decision.

I might throw the start in a DC if there is an interest for it.

My thoughts:
Babylon > Songhai > Ethiopia > Inca

I know there are many other civs that have a solid edge during a small portion of the game like china/Mongolia or science edge like Korea but I can't convince myself that "enough" will get done during that portion of the game to overcome the loss of the strong UAs of the 4 civs I'm contemplating

Pretend I will reload until a Petra/DF start.

I believe Babylon is the strongest because of the science edge making them probably the only civ capable of keeping up towards the late game against the last few civs.

However, spamming GS alone won't make the cut. Patronage-> Scholasticism will be the backbone of science hence the pick of Songhai as second best civ.

Ethiopia's 20% bonus will obviously be up the entire game so that's tempting. So is the guaranteed faith. Last but not least, their UU allows to build units with march since you should aim for Brandenburg gate.

Inca I think is the pick everyone will laugh at. However, hills movement is truly game breaking when AI has a strong defensive start. Good terrace farms for like 6f3h2g tiles with petra is also pretty broken in the early game to boost science and get units out. It's also possible I like their start bias to save me a few hours of respawns o.o


Anyway looking forward to read replies.

P.S. Not sure how to start polls so I might need to edit before this crap works

I voted Babylon, obviously based on the above. However, I also wanted to see players input on the "optimal" SP path. Tradition is a no brainer but usually OCC allows for far more SPs. Particularly in a setup where a lot of plunder gold will serve to purchase CSs.

I'm torn about honor. PA/Finisher/15% adjacent melee are all tempting. I don't think there's anyway to spare 6 SPs for the finisher though.

I'm also torn about 2pts to the right in commerce. The 25% purchase discount has proven to be extremely strong for tech edge based wars to pump out a bunch of units upon tech. However, since OCC kinda limits the use of bombers in the late game due to distance issues, I'm not sure it will really benefit the game.

Freedom VS autocracy. The main reason for freedom is because doubling the value of all settled GS is really strong to keep up in the late game. However, autocracy finisher would help wrap up the game and clear the last few civs which are likely to be the hardest as they will have had plenty of time AND land to expand from OCC auto-razing.

OCC deity domination on a standard map? I think it's impossible. Seriously. I voted for Nebuchadnezzar though. He is the only only one who can have that chance. Picture fighting your way to one side of the Pangaea to kill Alexander's capital, meanwhile all the empty space between Athens and you get filled with random cites from random civs, half of them hate you and won't give open borders ever.. So you swim around, meanwhile Oda comes with a swarm of samurai and kills you..

Good luck though.

EDIT: Did you mean Patronage --> Asceticism?

No I really meant scholasticism. I know it was nerfed since vanilla but with all of the gold from plunder it will be essential to ally most CSs to keep up with science. OCC science is doable because of RA spam which is completely impossible for a domination game.


As for the space getting spammed. I think part of the good luck/good start will be to have a somewhat middle-ish initial city such that once an end of the map is "cleared" aka all capitals destroyed, it won't matter much who/what/how it gets resettled.


I know it was possible in old vanilla before the GS rehaul just because of LS bulb strats or similar (I used to be able to clear 5 civs on great plains with ottomans janissary) but I am not sure it is doable with the many changes that happened since then.

Since you insist on a OCC(is it ticked by the way?) and domination, I'd think you want a really strong UU to go conquering with. Both the Mongols and Arabia have amazing UU replacements for Knights, and since they're mounted they also give you some much needed speed, since you want to end the game ASAP. Going OCC with either civilization is not ideal obviously, but as long as you get a decent chunk of horses near your capital you're set, otherwise you'll need to ally city states with horses and maintain those alliances, which will be a chore. If you don't want to rely on a strategic resource for your UU since you're going OCC than perhaps China? Paper Maker is great, even for OCC, though again not ideal, and the Chu-Ko-Nu is simply an amazing unit that will carry you very far in your domination campaign.

With other VC unchecked, you can can pick any, I believe. It will come down to strategics and shape of the map. Voted for Babylon just because they'll reach tech parity earlier than others.

I'm thinking about really late conquest. Push your science through RA's up to SB and nukes and from that point on it should be doable. If you screw your diplomacy early, good luck. Also I'd definitely invest in Patronage to maximize the strategics.

Babylon is your best chance, if it will be enough time will tell

Good luck!

The Pilgrim said:

With other VC unchecked, you can can pick any, I believe. It will come down to strategics and shape of the map. Voted for Babylon just because they'll reach tech parity earlier than others.

I'm thinking about really late conquest. Push your science through RA's up to SB and nukes and from that point on it should be doable. If you screw your diplomacy early, good luck. Also I'd definitely invest in Patronage to maximize the strategics.

Click to expand...

The issue is you can only reach 20-22 tiles with SB. That won't be enough to cover the entire map due to OCC being checked. I had a Babylon godly start on a far end of a map lately which I played "like OCC" till turn 170 (8 bombers ready) and had cleared the map with just bombers+cavs and upgrades by turn 230 ish. Sadly that's not a viable plan with OCC checked.


I did not, however, think of the impact of unchecking VCs for the AI. Maybe it would be best to leave all VCs but keep myself from winning any other way than dom.

Patronage Strategics: Dully noted. I always forget about that 4rth SP in the tree. I don't think I used it since vanilla.

This seems doable but it would need an extremely favorable map; namely one where the capitals that aren't in range of your Stealth Bombers could be approached with Carriers + nukes. The capitals outside of your SB range AND nuke range might be manageable if you can cut down the AI spam ahead of the cities with bombers. Still requires a lot of luck and sounds like a massive pain in the ass.

Deau said:

The issue is you can only reach 20-22 tiles with SB. That won't be enough to cover the entire map due to OCC being checked. I had a Babylon godly start on a far end of a map lately which I played "like OCC" till turn 170 (8 bombers ready) and had cleared the map with just bombers+cavs and upgrades by turn 230 ish. Sadly that's not a viable plan with OCC checked.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but in theory, even if some of the AI territory is outside nukes (carriers) and/or SB range, you can wipe out everything around it and march through the rest by land. Tech tree is finite and so are strategics, With tech parity and resource dominance you should be able to wear the AI down eventually anyway. But obviously a round shaped pangea with centered start is your best bet. How many rerolls it will take is a different question.

I did not, however, think of the impact of unchecking VCs for the AI. Maybe it would be best to leave all VCs but keep myself from winning any other way than dom.

Click to expand...

And then really good luck. I seriously doubt you can do it before some unreachable runaway launches. I'd disable SV for start.

Patronage Strategics: Dully noted. I always forget about that 4rth SP in the tree. I don't think I used it since vanilla.

Click to expand...

Even without Cultural Diplomacy it's worth it. Money is so tight in OCC, that every little bit helps. Which reminds me that Siam is also an option.

The Pilgrim said:

Even without Cultural Diplomacy it's worth it. Money is so tight in OCC, that every little bit helps. Which reminds me that Siam is also an option.

Click to expand...

That's why I thought Shongai would be the best pick tbh. The plunder gold will just fund everything. If a civ plans a city in empty spot meh ill catch it next time around for gold with a second army type of thing.

But I still need to luck out a darn good petra start. Hopefully I can provide some info on progression and frustration once then. I will remove the VCs unchecked though. I don't think a GDR+rocket artillery army would be a legit way to approach this challenge.

I really think SBs are out of the portrait though. As much as I love air wars, I won't be playing 700 turns with a crippled coastal city.

*Edit* seeing feedbacks I also tuned the water level down to "high".

Yeah GL and post the initial save and conditions in a DC. I am sure some people would love to try it out, Old Peter comes to mind
I like Inca but I think they are all solid choices. Taking out few nearby caps then keeping your troops fighting but not losing anything till tech parity sounds like a plan. Or water based cap plus carrier SB+ nuke strike force to just grab the caps.

i wonder how Austria's marriage works if OCC is ticked. is it disabled or would the CS go poof? i always thought there was no way to remove a CS from the map unless you razed it after it had become a married Austrian city.

water map and england ..

or petra land and babylon

but really whats the point?

Deau said:

I really think SBs are out of the portrait though. As much as I love air wars, I won't be playing 700 turns with a crippled coastal city.

Click to expand...

You don't need a crippled coastal city, you need a nice centered city, preferably defended by thick mountains.
The main problem with land units they get obsolete too fast and you need to take them all the way back for upgrade.

Deau said:

*Edit* seeing feedbacks I also tuned the water level down to "high".

Click to expand...

Good idea.

Hammer Rabbi said:

i wonder how Austria's marriage works if OCC is ticked. is it disabled or would the CS go poof? i always thought there was no way to remove a CS from the map unless you razed it after it had become a married Austrian city.

Click to expand...

They go poof, but I assume that units stay, which in theory makes it a decent choice of civ. In practice though I really don't see a way to fund both RA's and marriages. Still worth a shot. Any takers?

tommynt said:

water map and england ..

Click to expand...

Where's the challenge?

tommynt said:

but really whats the point?

Click to expand...

I think Tabarnak already covered that in a different thread. GnK is coming to and end, it's fun to impose odd self challenge and discuss the ways around. Just look at the last few DCs. Also probably for similar reasons than why you spent the time playing intensively the mayan DC to post that t188 victory game...

thanks, Pilgrim.

i think this will probably take a few tries for certain luck factors. bribing DoWs could possibly get you an AI taking out a cap too far away. i'd also shoot for an Oval pangea (actual map type) and hope you are somewhere in the middle. the downside is early DoWs on multiple fronts but the upside is not traveling too far in either direction so Bombers can actually help. Bombers could also supplant any home standing army for defense.

I voted for Inca for the movement bonus. If you find yourself centered in a map you could walk an army past a few caps to the furthest one and start there and you could do it quicker if there are a lot of hills. You could then try to work your way back. I think you can cook the map age and terrain to get more hills for this.

But for a different reason, I like Songhai (edit: meant Ottomans, haha). Janissaries are so powerful if you could build a monster army that could just sweep in a direction and then come back for promotions for a sweep in the other direction. But they are on the musket path and that means tech parity will be an issue.

Fun idea, but i dont have the chops to mess with deity this much. Good luck.

Japan. Bushido.

Also Sweden, if you want a lot of CS friends. Fight, fight, fight!

Opening 2 Honor or 2 out of 3 Honor with Sweden will get you a CS ally quite quickly. Its luck of the draw what you will get, but you could get a military CS and a nice UU.

Greece.

I like Songhai idea more and more, especially if their no penalty against cities promo stay through upgrades... Anyone knows for sure? If it does and you can get going then that might be a nice change of usual CB rush, you still might need one early but then tanks will cover a lot of ground fast.

Maxym said:

I like Songhai idea more and more, especially if their no penalty against cities promo stay through upgrades... Anyone knows for sure? If it does and you can get going then that might be a nice change of usual CB rush, you still might need one early but then tanks will cover a lot of ground fast.

Click to expand...

It does not.