China diety strategy (culture+science focus)

I've tried this a few times and it seems pretty successful (at least until next patch).

Deity
Pangea
Quick pace
Random Personalities
No ancient runes
Raging barbs (raging barbs are not vital for this strategy...they are just fun since you get warriors early to deal with them )

Settle on a luxury resource if you can. This will help you out.

Early build order: Scout->warrior->warrior->worker->settler. Doesn't actually matter that much as long as you get some warriors out. In the end want around 6 warriors. These are going to be rifles eventually. Train them on barbs. You can run off either 2 or 3 cities. Your pick here.

Granaries:
I build them. (Allows you to run 2 specialists in a library with a low pop/no martime ally)

Culture:
You need a monument in both cities up somewhat early. Maybe even a temple eventually. This is a cultural strategy.


Libraries:
You need micro specialists. Also, if you can run 2 specialists in 2 cities you can get 2 GS before you research physics. if you bulb physics AND gunpowder, just make sure you are able to get a third GS out before you reach the dynamite tech.

Research:
You are going to beeline into horseback riding. I have had little success with warrior rushing and I find that I need horses anyways.

HBR->lux->writiing->other lux resource->ironworking->
Collesium tech -> +culture tech (can skip)->
steel working->
physics (if you have 2 GS you might be able to bulb physics as well)->bulb into gunpowder->double bulb into rifling with the 2 free techs from rationalism.

Social Policies:
Rationalism down to 2 free techs->
Order down to +5 production->
Fill out rationalism tree->
+25% combat in friendly lands from order->
+33% combat strength in friendly lands from tradition->
Autocracy (just get the SPs you want Once you get police state you can annex everything and have that be your last SP. Or you can continue filling trees out.


Useful Wonders:
Forbidden Palace
Himeji Castle
Big Ben
Cristo redentor
Sistine Chapel
Statue of liberty???(dunno if it is worthwhile... Takes too much production)


Strategy:
1. Farm barbs with your warriors to get promotions.
2. Once you get around 4 horses position and DoW on someone nearby.
3. kill units until you get a Great General then take the city. If you want you can take the city earlier but make sure you clear the area. Newly settled cities are a good target. Take some workers if you can.
4. You need gold. Get gold by selling whatever you can. Trade away luxuries/strategic resources. Take the peace treaty gold and DoW again after 10 turns. Do what you can.
5. You need iron. Get a hold on some iron. Settle a third city next to iron if you have to.
6. You should finish off 1 civ with just 4 horses and a great general. I would promote 2-3 horses to medics and other 1-2 to shock 2. Spam trading posts in captured cities.
If you get longswords before your hoses are done feel free to bring them in to help out. Feel free to start war with another civ.

7. Once you bulb rifling:
You need at least 1 cultural ally. More is better though.
You really need at least 1 maritime ally. Without one I feel like I get behind. If you get it once you get rifling you should be okay. Don't be afraid to take out city states to get others to ally you.
USE THOSE RIFLES. Start war with another civilization. You should have a GG ready for the rifles. Nothing is going to stop 2 promotion rifles with a chinese GG this early on.

8. Tech to education
9. Tech to fertilizer and bulb dynamite with a GS to get to industrial
10. Go for order and get +5 production as soon as possible. Then fill out the rationalism tree.
11. Beeline to the forbidden palace and build it. Prepare your production city by improving production tiles beforehand. Usually my capitol will build the palace. Use an extra GG to start a golden age and build a windmill before you build the palace.
12. Promote your horses to knights and cavalry when you can. Your horses are still going to be very strong for a long time.
13. I don't think I need to tell you this, but electronics is the next step

MODERN WARFARE:
You need the +33% and +25% bonus in friendly territory from tradition and order. You need to turtle until you have enough troops.

If you are going for a domination victory chances are that you will need to get GDRs to win unless you were able to take out enough with your mechanized infantry. Make sure you build all the +xp buildings and a heroic epic. If you have a lot of gold (like 4000 or so) and you have Big Ben(maybe even without Big Ben...), get the -33% cost when purchasing from autocracy, buyout 4-5 modern armors, and start producing mass mechanized infantry. Mechanized infantry are not enough to hold open ground even in friendly territory with every possible +friendly combat bonus. Rocket artillery can help but I am not a fan of them. I usually get 1-2 max.

Hold the fort until you get GDRs (well, you can go with a fleet of highly promoted modern armors (shock 3/blitz/autorepair)) then rush buy a couple of them if you can. Once you have a good amount of GDRs you can push out. GDRs in friendly territory will almost never die.

As an alternative if you find a back door I think you can sneak into the last civ's base and take their capitol. I never tried it though.




For now, this seems to be a very power strategy if you can pull it off correctly. The only downside to this strategy is that you need to get at least enough gold to ally 2 city states relatively early. This can be challenging sometimes. Finding a maritime city state is also no easy business sometimes. And if you don't get a maritime CS I just feel like you get behind because they are just so powerful.

NOTES:
Forbidden Palace: You should be able to get this every game. AI builds it pretty late most of the time.

I like culture so I don't settle a lot of cities. Usually 3 max. Also, the AI gets really pissy when you start settling a bunch of cities. If you just conquer and puppet they don't seem to care as much.

Universities and Public Schools should go down pretty fast so you stay ahead on the science front.

Once you get coal trade it all away except for the 2-3 coal you need for factories in your 3 cities.

Try and stay so your cities can keep growing. Growth is good.

Build the +XP for all land units building. The difference between a doubly promoted artillery and a non promoted artillery is huge.

Granaries:
I build them.

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Culture = lot of puppets + CS culture + few settled cities
Science = lot of # of population (don't mean total pop.) + mixed with libraries (ICS!) give bulbing scientist machines and don't forget coliseums and maritime CS

China or not, this is the basic.

Tabarnak said:

Culture = lot of puppets + CS culture + few settled cities
Science = lot of # of population (don't mean total pop.) + mixed with libraries (ICS!) give bulbing scientist machines and don't forget coliseums and maritime CS

China or not, this is the basic.

Click to expand...

Yes, however, your goal is to get communism early on. This allows puppets to build up much faster. So they are going to be putting down culture and science buildings much earlier. Also since you fill out the rationalism tree you get a very nice boost to science.

With Rationalism you get:
+2 science per specialist
+1 per trading post (lots of puppets working these trading posts)
+15% overall.

ICS:
1. Ignores rationalism.
2. Pisses off the AI
3. Ignores culture in general.

Since these settings allow you to get an early great general, which policy route you take in the beginning? I guess its honor?

Getting a 2nd and 3rd great general fast enough to use 2 of them for 2 wars at same time and 1 for a golden age giving you more gold and hammer to more units....this must be insane, as the spawning rate is higher with China, plus the nice 45% bonus, combined with the 15% bonus when units fight together...its a nice war machine you gonna get after all.

Since its a rifle slingshot you save for rationalism 2 free tech policy. From barbs+combat you will get your first GG out pretty soon. Forbidden Palace comes pretty late so you are sure to have at least 3 GGs by that time, possibly more.

Soronery said:

Since its a rifle slingshot you save for rationalism 2 free tech policy. From barbs+combat you will get your first GG out pretty soon. Forbidden Palace comes pretty late so you are sure to have at least 3 GGs by that time, possibly more.

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Next patch will not allow to save policies unfortunately (or fortunately?). You will have to choose one of them available right away before next turn.

But as you said : until next patch....its good.

I know. Personally I think it's kind of a ******** change considering the early policies are not very good.

HOWEVER! You can still get rifles out pretty early. If you run 3 cities(I've been running with 2) with libraries fully staffed (I build granaries for this reason) you should be able to still slingshot into rifling using GS. If not with 3 GS then at least with 2 (research gunpowder). It will set you back a bit but it won't kill the strategy. I believe this is still doable with the change, but you will need to get more cultural allies. Rationalism is really powerful...I was getting +800 science per turn by turn 167 with 17 cities (2 cities and 15 puppets). 1 Civ was down before rifles and another after rifles.


This strategy really relies on CS for culture. You really need at least 2 cultural allies preferably more later on.

On a side note:
if you can manage to build the Cristo Rendentor you can just sit back and go for a cultural victory.

Soronery said:

I know. Personally I think it's kind of a ******** change considering the early policies are not very good.

HOWEVER! You can still get rifles out pretty early. If you run 3 cities(I've been running with 2) with libraries fully staffed (I build granaries for this reason) you should be able to still slingshot into rifling using GS. If not with 3 GS then at least with 2 (research gunpowder). It will set you back a bit but it won't kill the strategy. I believe this is still doable with the change, but you will need to get more cultural allies.

This strategy really relies on CS for culture.

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I guess where this differs from a "standard" rifle rush is going for HBR first - typically I go down the ironworking-longsword-rifle path and don't bother with HBR.

What's the benefit of going HBR over Ironworking? Horses are good, but is the detour worth it?

EscapedGoat said:

I guess where this differs from a "standard" rifle rush is going for HBR first - typically I go down the ironworking-longsword-rifle path and don't bother with HBR.

What's the benefit of going HBR over Ironworking? Horses are good, but is the detour worth it?

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I believe that swords are just too unreliable. I tried going ironworking first a couple games but it just isn't reliable. You can't see iron until ironworking and you might not even get iron in any reasonble place/amount. Also, going swords can be dangerous. If there is a lot of open terrain.. you can't advance sometimes. If you kill an enemy your sword gets stuck in open terrain and just dies instantly next turn.

Soronery said:

I know. Personally I think it's kind of a ******** change considering the early policies are not very good.

HOWEVER! You can still get rifles out pretty early. If you run 3 cities(I've been running with 2) with libraries fully staffed (I build granaries for this reason) you should be able to still slingshot into rifling using GS. If not with 3 GS then at least with 2 (research gunpowder). It will set you back a bit but it won't kill the strategy. I believe this is still doable with the change, but you will need to get more cultural allies. Rationalism is really powerful...I was getting +800 science per turn by turn 167 with 17 cities (2 cities and 15 puppets). 1 Civ was down before rifles and another after rifles.


This strategy really relies on CS for culture. You really need at least 2 cultural allies preferably more later on.

On a side note:
if you can manage to build the Cristo Rendentor you can just sit back and go for a cultural victory.

Click to expand...

that's the whole point, the weaker policies are unlocked earlier. it was never intended for people to hoard 6 sp's and complete the entire rationalism tree in one turn. besides, liberty is one of the best if you build lots of cities, traditionalism is good for small culture focused empires, and honor is great for warmongers. there's plenty to look at in the beginning imho.

bryanw1995 said:

that's the whole point, the weaker policies are unlocked earlier. it was never intended for people to hoard 6 sp's and complete the entire rationalism tree in one turn. besides, liberty is one of the best if you build lots of cities, traditionalism is good for small culture focused empires, and honor is great for warmongers. there's plenty to look at in the beginning imho.

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It's a bit weird when you think that devs allowed to save policies and come back 2 months later to finally decide that it's not enough balanced.

I mean many good players found this very soon and put this as an important part of many strategies. Why they didnt see that soon as well? Beta testers were not dummies after all.

It will take a long time before sticky strategies will be written down. Nothing official for a long time to come with all patches coming in next months. Strategies expire very fast these days lol

Policies are like inventions. They are used right away for benefits. My 2 cents.

With the current system all it really encourages is is NOT building any cultural buildings until you hit a later era :/

Policies really need to be revamped. There shouldn't be any useless or near useless policies IMO.

Don't want to hijack the thread into a discussion of the upcoming SP save nerf, as there is another thread devoted to this that goes quite thoroughly into the issue. I do agree it is a clumsy change and I don't agree that it was not originally intended to save SP's to dump later into a branch, since a helpful tooltip over the SP icon told you how to defer usage.

Instead, @the OP, how would this strategy be adapted to the forthcoming change? The crux of this strategy appears to be maximal SP generation with a puppet empire based on 2-3 cities. Not building culture / not buying into cultural CSes is not an option since you can't control puppet builds. Alternative is in the other direction of seeking max culture and maximizing tech bulb blitzes into the later eras asap, to minimize dropping SPs into the earlier branches as much as possible.

Prioritize 1st library, than all culture buildings before anything. Prioritize cultural CSes over even maritime unless you start in plains, in both cases settle first 2 cities on rivers to access both waterwheel (food) + gardens (GP acceleration), as well as granary.

For this reason I'd beeline into medieval asap in some way that synergizes with this strategy so that you dump most of your early SPs into patronage as much as possible. Piety is out for this strategy, I'd prefer Tradition pre-medieval, if forced, over Honor (not pure warmonger strat) or Liberty (not ICS).

Soronery said:

With the current system all it really encourages is is NOT building any cultural buildings until you hit a later era :/

Policies really need to be revamped. There shouldn't be any useless or near useless policies IMO.

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bryanw1995 said:

it was never intended for people to hoard 6 sp's and complete the entire rationalism tree in one turn.

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I don't know why such a statement would be even remotely credible. Firstly, unless a developer comes out and makes a definitive statement nobody can claim anything was intended or not. It's all a guess no matter how plausible the guess may seem. Secondly, since the game as released allows you to save policies and gives tool-tip help to do so, why would the developers not intend for policies to be saved? Going for the Rationalism techs and reduced Social Policy cost from Freedom are such obvious reasons to save Social Policies it seems very unlikely the playtesters there didn't make these plays. But again, just 'unlikely', not 'certain'.

Soronery said:

With the current system all it really encourages is is NOT building any cultural buildings until you hit a later era :/

Policies really need to be revamped. There shouldn't be any useless or near useless policies IMO.

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Exactly. If we have to take policies when available they should nerf some or change some to not let too much linear and same approaches.

And as gaiko said, a such strategy will need early buildings instead.

gaiko said:

Instead, @the OP, how would this strategy be adapted to the forthcoming change? The crux of this strategy appears to be maximal SP generation with a puppet empire based on 2-3 cities. Not building culture / not buying into cultural CSes is not an option since you can't control puppet builds. Alternative is in the other direction of seeking max culture and maximizing tech bulb blitzes into the later eras asap, to minimize dropping SPs into the earlier branches as much as possible.
.

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With the up coming change you have 2 choices.

1. Go tradition and grab +33% dmg in bonus lands (you usually get this anyway late game (turn 150+).
2. Go honour and go for double XP

Right now I am thinking of still going rationalsim as soon as possible and going down to the 2 free techs and using those to propel you into the industrial era (fertilizer+dynamite). I really need to play with the new changes before I can say anything for certain. I don't know if you will be able to get enough culture to go down the rationalism tree fast enough after getting all those other SPs.

After the industrial era you will choose policies as usual.

Regardless of the patch change, is there a benefit alternating the top and bottom tech path, than bee-lining one to industrial and backfill later?

I've been using beeline top or bottom and seems to get to industrial around T120/130. Civs with horse UA beeline the top for example...I don't see much benefit to be gained by alternating as OP suggested.

No policies are useless/near useless...just because of the GS bulb, it is very easy to get to industrial relatively early, that's why more popular strategies were built on saving SP and use it on more efficient policies in the later era.

after the patch, most ppl will prob dump 2 policies in Honor over the alternatives, or for meritocricy for ICSers. I don't believe in defensive games, thus I don't know how to use Oligarchy effectively, prob worthwhile in OCC games, other than that, Honor on the offensive is prob safer in most situations.

If you do this strategy you should be in industrial by around turn 110 on quick pace. Here is why I alternate:
1. A lot of the time I have no iron in any reasonable spot so I go HBR. Also I have more success with horses than with swords.
2. After getting rifles I go to the top tree to pick up education so puppets build universities.
3. Sometimes another GS is going to pop up soon so I can research other technologies. Waiting for the GS would be better than researching it yourself.

And yes many of the earlier policies are very weak.

You grab oligarchy because there is usually a runaway civ or a powerful civ when you have mechanized infantry. And it isn't odd for them to have +33% combat in friendly lands or the +25% from himeji. Basically, you cannot advance your troops until you have modern armor or maybe even GDRs. Even when you attack with rifles it isn't rare that you will have to defend for a period of time. At one point my rifle rush failed against Japan so I had to wait out a peace treaty until all his troops were gone.

With China going honor will be a no brainer since 45% bonus from GG is superior than anything else.