Marines & City Defenses - A Bonus?

I have read several posts on various random threads that include the assertion that when marines attack amphibiously, the city defenders do not get the city defensive bonus (50% for a city and 100% for a metropolis). I don't know if this is correct or not, but I can't find any evidence supporting this. After searching the threads for 1/2 hour or so (when I should be working!), I still haven't seen anything.

Does anyone know if this is true (that defenders do NOT enjoy a city defense bonus), and if it is true, how do do you know it's true?

Thanks!

Okay -- I managed to set up and run a test to determine whether defenders lose their city defense bonuses when facing amphibious assaults. The answer (definitive, in my view) is that they do not. In other words, city defense bonuses apply to defenders, even when being attacked amphibiously by marines.

First, the test results:

Situation: marines attacking from a transport. Defender is an infantry, fortified in a metropolis (size 14), built on grassland. Assuming all defensive bonuses apply, the infantry defense should be 23.5 (base of 10, bonuses as follows: 100%+25%+10%, from metropolis, fortification, grassland respectively). With an attack value of 8, we would expect the marine to win 25.40% of the individual combat die rolls (i.e. hit point lost by attacker or defender).

Actual test results:

2501 individual combat die rolls
1867 HPs lost by marines
634 HPs lost by infantry

Empirical marine success rate: 25.35%

Someone who actually took statistics and remembers the experience can comment on whether 2500 trials is sufficient to give comfort -- it certainly is for me.

Originally posted by Catt
Okay -- I managed to set up and run a test to determine whether defenders lose their city defense bonuses when facing amphibious assaults. The answer (definitive, in my view) is that they do not. In other words, city defense bonuses apply to defenders, even when being attacked amphibiously by marines.

First, the test results:

Situation: marines attacking from a transport. Defender is an infantry, fortified in a metropolis (size 14), built on grassland. Assuming all defensive bonuses apply, the infantry defense should be 23.5 (base of 10, bonuses as follows: 100%+25%+10%, from metropolis, fortification, grassland respectively). With an attack value of 8, we would expect the marine to win 25.40% of the individual combat die rolls (i.e. hit point lost by attacker or defender).

Actual test results:

2501 individual combat die rolls
1867 HPs lost by marines
634 HPs lost by infantry

Empirical marine success rate: 25.35%

Someone who actually took statistics and remembers the experience can comment on whether 2500 trials is sufficient to give comfort -- it certainly is for me.

Click to expand...

I took statistics and this absolutely proves that defenders get the bonus. I congratulate you for your awesome experiment. All in all, it proves marines are useless

Originally posted by Evincar


I took statistics and this absolutely proves that defenders get the bonus. I congratulate you for your awesome experiment. All in all, it proves marines are useless

Click to expand...

Marine useless i cant beleive, it mean you dont know how too use them. You can destroy/capture many coastal city without puting a foot into their cultural border. Marines+Bomber ROCK i can tell you.

Well the only time I make marines any large numbers is when I'm making the risky move of declaring war on somebody because they have oil, so in other words, the marine is a poor man's tank

Good to know.

It doesn't mean marines are useless, but it means that marines are less useful then they would be if there was the ignore defense bonus stat. How did that rumor get started?

CG

This brings another question. Do walls and coastal fortresses add bonus defense against amphibious attacks?

Originally posted by Catt
Okay -- I managed to set up and run a test to determine whether defenders lose their city defense bonuses when facing amphibious assaults. The answer (definitive, in my view) is that they do not. In other words, city defense bonuses apply to defenders, even when being attacked amphibiously by marines.

First, the test results:

Situation: marines attacking from a transport. Defender is an infantry, fortified in a metropolis (size 14), built on grassland. Assuming all defensive bonuses apply, the infantry defense should be 23.5 (base of 10, bonuses as follows: 100%+25%+10%, from metropolis, fortification, grassland respectively). With an attack value of 8, we would expect the marine to win 25.40% of the individual combat die rolls (i.e. hit point lost by attacker or defender).

Actual test results:

2501 individual combat die rolls
1867 HPs lost by marines
634 HPs lost by infantry

Empirical marine success rate: 25.35%

Someone who actually took statistics and remembers the experience can comment on whether 2500 trials is sufficient to give comfort -- it certainly is for me.

Click to expand...

God catt do you have carpal tunnel from hitting the mouse button 2501 times?

Originally posted by Sim_One
This brings another question. Do walls and coastal fortresses add bonus defense against amphibious attacks?

Click to expand...

Good queston sim, I know coastal fortersses don't, if fact the only time I've felt CF of being any use is when the enemy civ leaves his ship next to a city with a CF in it, otherwise it doesn't seem to do anything.