SGOTM 11 - Phoenix Rising

I will probably play tomorrow morning or tonight. My company is being demanded in an hour.

I think we need to push on to ox uni after this. You will need a solid turn plan next Cripps. I think treat mine as a benchmark when it comes to your turn.

The progress page is quite interesting. One short straw graph has just dropped nearly 100 points. I suspect they may have lost a city!! We are not the only team to have been attacked perhaps. Could a whip for ox uni cause a huge drop? There power rating has dipped too. I think the progress page gives away far too much at times.
 
Is Cripps next or are we following the normal order?

Plan sounds fine. One note on getting the settler to the island in 4 turns. First, I didn't notice that our galleys has it's movement points and also miscalculated based on the original plan I discussed. It's actually easier and you may have noticed this anyway.

The galley should be able to cross the ocean/fish tile since it's in our borders and, therefore, can stop 1N of the spice on turn 3 when the settler finishes. The settler can then embark the galley that turn and disembark on the island on the 4th turn. The key is sending the galley across the fish instead of around it so that the settler can enter directly as opposed to taking another turn to enter the galley. This puts the settler on the island at least 1 turn before the Arab galley arrives, if that is in fact what it will do.

GO USA!!! BEAT THE LIMEYS!!!
 
Hello everyone - and thanks Gumbolt for the invitation and for welcoming me to the team :)
I'm still catching up on this thread, but I'll be sure to post some comments on everyone's plan.

Thanks for having me on your team, and I'm very excited to be playing alongside all of you!
 
Welcome, Kadazzle!!! Good to have you on board.
 
lymond said:
Is Cripps next or are we following the normal order?

Plan sounds fine. One note on getting the settler to the island in 4 turns. First, I didn't notice that our galleys has it's movement points and also miscalculated based on the original plan I discussed. It's actually easier and you may have noticed this anyway.

The galley should be able to cross the ocean/fish tile since it's in our borders and, therefore, can stop 1N of the spice on turn 3 when the settler finishes. The settler can then embark the galley that turn and disembark on the island on the 4th turn. The key is sending the galley across the fish instead of around it so that the settler can enter directly as opposed to taking another turn to enter the galley. This puts the settler on the island at least 1 turn before the Arab galley arrives, if that is in fact what it will do.

GO USA!!! BEAT THE LIMEYS!!!
Click to expand...

Hah they will never win!!! Only our OAP players go to the US. Has Beckham retired yet? :p

I think I will play in the morning. No offence to Kadazzle but we have been through this plan for for 1 week now. If you spot something amazing before then let me know.

@ Kadazzle. Try to view the live game in pause mode. You should only be looking at save when it is not your go. Should be a pause button top right on your keyboard. The pause botton will restrict you from contacting AI.
 
Ha...I'm not banking on the US winning either...but one can only hope. The LA team still owns rights to Beckham, but he's been on loan to Milan. He can't have much gas left.

What's the deal on the play order?

General note on Pause mode that I noticed that I feel is worth mentioning. This probably affects folks that are playing and just coming out of Pause mode. When you are in Pause, your actions are recorded. Therefore, once you leave Pause mode those actions will be performed. In other words, just be carefully what you do while in Pause mode.
 
Originally Jaybone took Cripps round as he was not well. I took over for Toku invasion. Only fair to slot him back in next and maybe Kadazzle after Cripps.

I suggest the following rota!

Gumbolt
Cripps
Kadazzle
Lymond
Jaybone

When I get up in 7-8 hours time I will do my round. I know I keep delaying.
 
Round complete.

Theres good news in many ways and I think our game plan is obvious going forward. Small bit of bad news but very minor.

report

Spoiler :


I mostly followed the plan. Each turn checking for Toku ships. None came! Phew!

I used up all available trade money from the AI (8-9 gold a turn for resources). i also have got us 1-2 more happiness resources.

To get peace with Toku I gave him currency. Every other Ai had this so seemed sensible. Peace!!

Okay we have paper now. I traded it to Justin for MC and world maps and 50 gold. Seemed logical. I didn't want to give away lit yet as we want music. His maps showed us most of Toku land and fact they are all on one continent. Great news really as we can probably bribe justin and Toku into war later.

I traded maps for maps with Zara. We now know Ottaman shares an island with him. Spain, Arabia and Japan refused.

Most of the key resources are now on the trade map. Except fur!! hello barb city!! Could be more than one barb city out there.

More good news our units now move +1 tiles on the ocean sea. 3 movement galley.

Overall we have HE on way and NE built next turn. Capital is working on a forge. We can whip LH in Penguin point next turn.

The bad news: There is a barb galley heading our way from Spains borders.

More good news pending how you view it. We popped a Great engineer. Sitting in PN at present. Could be useful when we get nationalism or perhaps for 50% on workers or a religious building.

Note I switch PN and VR around to get growth quicker. Taking away one production tile in PN to food cut growth time hugely.



Possible fur city
Spoiler :

sgotmfurcity0000.jpg



Possible fur city. Do note it is not on the coast! Raze and build coastal city. ;)

Spoiler :
sgotmottoman0000.jpg


Our Glorious empire

Spoiler :
sgotmoverview0000.jpg


Spanish empire
Spoiler :
sgotmspain0000.jpg


Toku/Justin/Saladin maps.

Spoiler :
sgotmtokuland0000.jpg


Turnset:
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 160 AD to 310 AD:

Turn 184, 160 AD: Zara Yaqob adopts Theocracy!

Turn 185, 175 AD: You have trained a Settler in Vulture Ridge. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 185, 175 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Roc City. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 185, 175 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Buzzards cliff. Work has now begun on a Library.

Turn 186, 190 AD: You have trained a Chariot in Phoenix Nest. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 187, 205 AD: You have trained a Fast Worker in Pegasus Creek. Work has now begun on National Epic.
Turn 187, 205 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Delhi. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 187, 205 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Gulltown. Work has now begun on a Granary.

Turn 188, 220 AD: Parrots haven has been founded.
Turn 188, 220 AD: The borders of Pegasus Creek have expanded!

Turn 189, 235 AD: You have made peace with Tokugawa!
Turn 189, 235 AD: You have discovered Paper!
Turn 189, 235 AD: The borders of Roc City have expanded!

Turn 190, 250 AD: The Colossus has been built in a far away land!

Turn 191, 265 AD: You have discovered Metal Casting!
Turn 191, 265 AD: You have trained a Spearman in Phoenix Nest. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 191, 265 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Vulture Ridge. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 191, 265 AD: Your maps have proven that the world is round! Your ships receive a +1 Movement bonus.

Turn 192, 280 AD: Phoenix Nest can hurry Forge for 4? with 14? overflow and +1? for 16 turns.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Vulture Ridge has grown to size 7.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Pegasus Creek has grown to size 7.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Pelican Lake has grown to size 4.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Pelican Lake can hurry Lighthouse for 2? with 46? overflow and +1? for 35 turns.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Saladin has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Zara Yaqob has 70 gold available for trade.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Gulltown will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 192, 280 AD: Louis Daguerre (Great Engineer) has been born in Phoenix Nest (Gandhi)!
Turn 192, 280 AD: Atisha (Great Prophet) has been born in Aksum (Zara Yaqob)!

Turn 193, 295 AD: Pegasus Creek can hurry Fast Worker for 2? with 16? overflow and +1? for 50 turns.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Gulltown has grown to size 2.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Gulltown can hurry Granary for 1? with 19? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Tokugawa has 170 gold available for trade.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Zara Yaqob is the worst enemy of Saladin.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Phoenix Nest will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Roc City will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Pelican Lake will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 193, 295 AD: Buzzards cliff will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 193, 295 AD: You have trained a Fast Worker in Pegasus Creek. Work has now begun on National Epic.

Turn 194, 310 AD: Phoenix Nest has grown to size 11.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Roc City has grown to size 4.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Roc City can hurry Library for 2? with 36? overflow and +1? for 44 turns.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Pelican Lake has grown to size 5.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Buzzards cliff has grown to size 4.
Turn 194, 310 AD: Parrots haven will grow to size 2 on the next turn.


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm11/Phoenix_Rising_SG011_AD0310_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
A few pointers.

Spain has Ivory and dye! Can we trade these late game?

Ottoman has silk. West coast of continent. he has not settled it yet. We could send a galley. ;)

The fur I would bet my life is on the fur island. We need a spy and a caravel to check this. There could be other barb islands too.

We need 2 GS. Perhaps let PC grow a bit now NE is in.

Peg creek is ready with lib. Needs to grow now and use scientists.
PN has library already. Needs to finish forge. Perhaps a settler or wonder for failed gold.
Penguin point can use whip to go into library. Chop too.
Roc city can perhaps whip library for 1 pop. Perhaps we should of farmed this city.
Gulltown - should we whip granary. 7 turns growth and 7 turns for granary. I held off the whip here. Library is expected.
Buzzard cliff - Grow to size 4 use quarry and whip library for 1 pop maybe?
Pelican Lake (Clam city) - Needs to whip light house and start on lib.
VR to grow to size 12 and now strictly a military pump city!

Overall next round should focus on switching back to cate after 1-2 more whips.

We need to complete music. We still appear to be on track for this.

Can we get a diplomatic win by vasselling spain and Ottaman empire while making Sal/ Justin and Toku friends? Attacking Toku gets us little or no resources.

We need to start spreading missionaries. I think PN should do this after forge and before edu.

Anyway over to Cripps.
 
Quick comments - i'll come back later:

Question - Did we get stuff in those trades of techs and maps. Should get some gold in those map trades - at least after the initial one.

We really need more workers. We're working unimproved tiles. I'd rather get those chain farms up first in VR vs. spice. Also, need to chain farm the rice for Buzzard from the plains river tile near Roc. We need to 2 pop whip some workers pronto. We can pull a worker from Gull to the Northwest to chain farm and build workshops.

Looks like PN will need an aqueduct. PN is building a forge but doesn't have the health to handle it yet. We could also trade silver to Just for rice now as we can hook up another silver east of PP. I say get the rice now before we lose it.

I vote for bulbing Machinery with the Engineer. That will provide a huge boost and get us to Optics quick, plus better units. We have a bonus on the Taj so I wouldn't waste an engineer on it anyway.

Man, that's a crazy looking map. The barb island looks totally cooked. Also, we appear to know where all the AIs are now but there is a huge fog area to the north - interesting. Optics can't come any sooner.

With Gull, check the food bar. When it's at or near half full - whip.

The marble is unused in the NW but Clam city is working a 1F1h tile.

Roc City is in really bad shape - it hasn't been improved. We need to spread the worker love.

PC is running no scientists - working ocean.

We an sell off Lit soon for gold
 
lymond said:
Quick comments - i'll come back later:

Question - Did we get stuff in those trades of techs and maps. Should get some gold in those map trades - at least after the initial one.

We really need more workers. We're working unimproved tiles. I'd rather get those chain farms up first in VR vs. spice. Also, need to chain farm the rice for Buzzard from the plains river tile near Roc. We need to 2 pop whip some workers pronto. We can pull a worker from Gull to the Northwest to chain farm and build workshops.

Looks like PN will need an aqueduct. PN is building a forge but doesn't have the health to handle it yet. We could also trade silver to Just for rice now as we can hook up another silver east of PP. I say get the rice now before we lose it.

I vote for bulbing Machinery with the Engineer. That will provide a huge boost and get us to Optics quick, plus better units. We have a bonus on the Taj so I wouldn't waste an engineer on it anyway.

Man, that's a crazy looking map. The barb island looks totally cooked. Also, we appear to know where all the AIs are now but there is a huge fog area to the north - interesting. Optics can't come any sooner.

With Gull, check the food bar. When it's at or near half full - whip.

The marble is unused in the NW but Clam city is working a 1F1h tile.

Roc City is in really bad shape - it hasn't been improved. We need to spread the worker love.

PC is running no scientists - working ocean.

We an sell off Lit soon for gold
Click to expand...

We have already whipped 2 workers in last 10 turns in PC. In fairness we have traded away a few health resources so this is why PN may be suffering. There are 2 workers on sugar island.

The clams city grew to size 5 last turn.I was about to whip it.

I forgot about chain irrigation and this is on to do list for Cripps.

PC was growing. perhaps an additional scientist would of helped. I really think this city should grow now so it can become a GP farm. We can't continually whip it back to size 5. it already has 3-4 :( faces due to whipping. We could use clams GP farm to whip workers long term. It can replace PC on that front!

PN can produce workers in 3 turns!! We could build 1-2 workers there. As you say not ready for a forge anyway. A forge would be a nice boost to production. I wasn't too worried about health in PN. Aqueduct is useful too.

Not in favour of machinery bulb. A number of the Ai already have this tech. It is only time before they start to trade it way. I could be persuaded. Would sistine or another wonder to give 50% boost to workers help? We are short on workers anyway.

I perhaps could of sold maps to Spain/toku and Sal better. They all had little or no gold really. There is a danger Justin could get upset if we trade with Toku too much as he is -4 diplomatic wise.

I do think we have a chance to convert Toku to conf as his capital already has it. Worth a shot.
 
Further thought on machinery. It is unlikely sal will trade it unless we move him back to friendly. I wasn't willing to stop trading with Zara though to keep him happy! His current refusal message is unwilling to trade away this technology yet. Strangely this is the same for construction which most Ai have.

Overall lets not bulb it till we finish music. If it is tradeable then trade for it. If not we can bulb it. It will take Toku over 20 turns to even formulate an attack on us again. Next time it will be samurai. If we trade for machinery we could part bulb engineering.

If we are moving back to conf and pacifsm/OR then bulbing after music is an option.

In terms of PN health. We have a wheat and a corn not hooked up by road. Wheat =+1 health! So we have health options. Trading options too. Extra silver too to work. I would finish forge and do aqueduct afterward. Forge will give 4 extra hammers. So aqueduct would finish faster. When forge is in we can add an extra scientist to boost GP points while we recover health. I do think a worker in capital could be useful.

PC next turn can run a scientist. When size 6 another. We can grow this to size 8 and run 5 scientists. While we recover angry pop and gain more happiness.

Worker near VR to build road to wheat! Shift a worker or 2 from PC to chain irrigation.

We could use a settler somewhere too. Perhaps in PC once at 8 pop.

Once growth whip as are done we need to start growing the cities low on food.
 
I see now that there are more workers than I thought, but I think part of the problem is we have too many workers in one place. 3 workers near Gull when the city can't work all those tiles. We could pull 2 of them up to the northwest. Gull will be working lake farms soon anyway.

VR needs farms asap. At least one worker needs to work farms up there, while the other roads the wheat. I'd run a priest in the interim as opposed to working an unimproved tile.

I think Machinery is worth the Engineer but willing to wait for Music to see if any trades it, which I doubt.

PC could have worked an extra lake farm instead of coastal tile or just run a scientist. As mentioned before, the settler can be managed according to the happy cap in PC - growth being a priority. We need to run more specialists.

I think we should be patient with trading maps. Even a turn can make a difference on getting more gold for the maps.

Roc City probably needs some thought. Chain Irrigation for the rice will give Roc some farms. I'm think we should also farm the other tiles and throw in workshops elsehwhere to boost hammers here, plus the mined hill. Roc can work cows and marble later when the other cities are up in running.
 
we are working 1 unimproved tile right now (3 if you count coast as unimproved). Workers are not priorty, missionaries are.

The end game is very reachable from here. We get music, race to liberalism (save GA in back pocket) get nationhood and mil. tradition, beeline steel, and go cannon rape toku and saladin, and vassal them while beelining mass media. we don't need to do or build anything else that distracts us from this plan. If Gumbolt is right, we don't even need astronomy to get to fur island (there sure is a big blank space on the map, can be explored later. Maybe our vassals would like to research optics for us.

Need to start building missionaries in PN while growing and running specialists and spread to isabella, then zara, lastly justin.

Can farm roc though eventually it will need plain watermills and windmills probably to be a 3rd production city (maybe one of sal's cities can help us here).

We have to streamline towards our goal now. Religion and war.
 
Jaybone said:
we are working 1 unimproved tile right now (3 if you count coast as unimproved). Workers are not priorty, missionaries are.

The end game is very reachable from here. We get music, race to liberalism (save GA in back pocket) get nationhood and mil. tradition, beeline steel, and go cannon rape toku and saladin, and vassal them while beelining mass media. we don't need to do or build anything else that distracts us from this plan. If Gumbolt is right, we don't even need astronomy to get to fur island (there sure is a big blank space on the map, can be explored later. Maybe our vassals would like to research optics for us.

Need to start building missionaries in PN while growing and running specialists and spread to isabella, then zara, lastly justin.

Can farm roc though eventually it will need plain watermills and windmills probably to be a 3rd production city (maybe one of sal's cities can help us here).

We have to streamline towards our goal now. Religion and war.
Click to expand...

The issue I have with the plan is that Toku and Sal don't have 3 of the 4 resources we need. Ottoman empire has the silk. Izzy the ivory and Dye. It is possible Sal is hiding resources but I doubt it as we can see the trade screen.

Is Isabella likely to offer to be a vassel if our power rating is high enough? She could vassel to the Ottoman empire. How many silk are there? Remember we can only start 2 wars.

Flipping this on the head. What would happen if we vassel Ottoman/Spanish empire? Would we have enough votes to win a diplomatic vote? I honestly think Toku can be made to switch religions and behave. If we attack Ottoman Izzy may dow anyway. Also if we vassel the ottoman empire Izzy may offer to be a vassel anyway.

If the fur is on the barb island city then perhaps astronomy is surplus to requirement. I think it may be a pre requisite of SM. Need to check.

Perhaps we should have PN spam a religion as main function with ox uni as only distraction. Remember every city of ours will require the religion. Also every Ai must be in a religion too. We can have a galley either side of our land to ship missionaries.
 
I just noticed sal is worst enemy with Zara.

In terms of the barb island. We would have to pass Justin/Toku and Sal land. I can't see two of those having open borders with us. Especially in light of the above. A galley may not reach really. Not a huge issue if we plan to declare war soon. Guilds and then a war asap.

It is also quicker to reach barb land from Spanish side. Do we gamble that the fur is there? There may be more resources in the fog.

For me we need a caravel to the barb island with a spy on board. If we can get a great spy and dump it on other island that would be useful!

Other thoughts. Do we risk a galley and settler to silk site while it is still free? Costly site but secures a resource.

If we assume Ottoman will trade the resource anyway we have no issue.

The other issue is the minute we switch back to a religion Sal may close his borders.
 
Okay of the AI

Spanish/Zara/Justin love christianity. They all love Theocracy too.
Toku is buddist. Love Mercantilism. - Needs to be taken out really.
Sulie or Mehmed is Islam and likes either vassalage or HR.
Sal loves theocracy but loves Islam.

So end game if we take out Toku and Vassel Mehmed I think Zara and Izzy will vassel to us. I think the other Ai will stay in a religion. Sal will switch to xtian. It is a shame sal is worst enemy of zara as this effects our overall diplomatic rating. Key for toku war is to take out his 2-3 ports.

Spread xtian to all the Ai. If we use OR we can build missionaries much quicker. We could use a great priest for a shrine.

For me PN could pump out xtian missionaries. Remember all our cities will need it but spreading to Ai should be main goal. We could even build a monastary in PN. We will need these before they get obsolete.

The big decision is do we switch to a religion now or wait? We do have a barb galley to deal with too. Sal will spread the religion to all his cities anyway.

We need 2 galleys. One on either side of island. Need to convince toku to open borders. Hmmm. Gift a tech?

Oh if we skipped gunpowder you might be able to bulb from astronomy all the way to mass media with GS. Just a thought.

Again if we want to draft mace or gunpower units we need globe theatre.

Overall right now we just need to dedicate the following cities.

PN - xtian pump/ GP farm/ ox uni.
VR - military unit pump
Gulltown - production city/Globe theatre/ Moai site. - Globe city can also whip units!!! A worthy strategy as Kossin would say.
PC - Main GP site - GS based.
Clam city - Merchant GP city/ Settler whip. Naval whip perhaps?
Roc city - production city.
Penguin Point - Production?
BC - undecided.

Long term builds.

15-20 missionaries?
1-2 caravels. - To explore and use spy to check for fur and other silk sites.
5+ ships to transport units. The warriors/ key units will need a frigate escort.
20-30 Curs.
1. Settler for barb island/ worker for barb island/ missionery. I don't think the barb island is coastal. All cities must have the 4 resources.
1-2 more settlers to fill our land. Horse/incense site. Site west of PN.

Buildings such as forge/court houses etc we can decide later really. We may not need them everywhere.


Questions to answer/part answered.

Can chariots be upgraded to curs? Perhaps VR can also spread missionaries.
When should we use our 2 golden ages. One from GA one from nationalism i hope!
What techs do we actually need to complete the game? - Optics/Paper/gunpowder/astronomy/SM/physics/ electricity/Radio/Mass Media. We can trade for engineering/construction/optics/guilds/banking. Unless we go for the GM with banking!
What techs do we need to complete our short term objectives? For instance would knights be enough to take out a longbow defence city? If not Curs requires - gunpowder/nationalism/MT - Note we don't need guilds or optics for Curs. Do we need cannons with Curs?
Is Justin or Toku likely to attack the barb city soon? Should we defend it with privateers?
What power rating will we need to make Zara vassel? 1.4? 2+?
I wonder if after edu and nationalism we should take MT or astronomy with lib for early curs.
 
Gumbolt said:
Okay of the AI

Spanish/Zara/Justin love christianity. They all love Theocracy too.
Toku is buddist. Love Mercantilism. - Needs to be taken out really.
Sulie or Mehmed is Islam and likes either vassalage or HR.
Sal loves theocracy but loves Islam.

So end game if we take out Toku and Vassel Mehmed I think Zara and Izzy will vassel to us. I think the other Ai will stay in a religion. Sal will switch to xtian. It is a shame sal is worst enemy of zara as this effects our overall diplomatic rating. Key for toku war is to take out his 2-3 ports.
Click to expand...

Looks like his ports are on the south side of his land, only 1 on the north. Need a better map of Mehmed's lands, hopefully we'll meet him in my set.

Spread xtian to all the Ai. If we use OR we can build missionaries much quicker. We could use a great priest for a shrine.

For me PN could pump out xtian missionaries. Remember all our cities will need it but spreading to Ai should be main goal. We could even build a monastary in PN. We will need these before they get obsolete.
Click to expand...
:agree:

The big decision is do we switch to a religion now or wait? We do have a barb galley to deal with too. Sal will spread the religion to all his cities anyway.
Click to expand...
I'd wait until we get most AIs in xtian, can also use spies to change their religion. I think we'd get too much -diplo from different religion atm.

We need 2 galleys. One on either side of island. Need to convince toku to open borders. Hmmm. Gift a tech?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't gift give a +4 for fair trades, or +1 for You gave us tech?

Oh if we skipped gunpowder you might be able to bulb from astronomy all the way to mass media with GS. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Might be worth considering, don't need GP for curs

Again if we want to draft mace or gunpower units we need globe theatre.

Overall right now we just need to dedicate the following cities.

PN - xtian pump/ GP farm/ ox uni.
VR - military unit pump
Gulltown - production city/Globe theatre/ Moai site. - Globe city can also whip units!!! A worthy strategy as Kossin would say.
PC - Main GP site - GS based.
Clam city - Merchant GP city/ Settler whip. Naval whip perhaps?
Roc city - production city.
Penguin Point - Production?
BC - undecided.

Long term builds.

15-20 missionaries?
1-2 caravels. - To explore and use spy to check for fur and other silk sites.
5+ ships to transport units. The warriors/ key units will need a frigate escort.
20-30 Curs.
1. Settler for barb island/ worker for barb island/ missionery. I don't think the barb island is coastal. All cities must have the 4 resources.
1-2 more settlers to fill our land. Horse/incense site. Site west of PN.

Buildings such as forge/court houses etc we can decide later really. We may not need them everywhere.


Questions to answer/part answered.

Can chariots be upgraded to curs? Perhaps VR can also spread missionaries.
Click to expand...
Yes they can.
When should we use our 2 golden ages. One from GA one from nationalism i hope!
Click to expand...
I think after Edu to get our unis/Ox in faster, will help go through the techs faster too. ??? on the other, maybe when we get to the UN to finish it faster

What techs do we actually need to complete the game? - Optics/Paper/gunpowder/astronomy/SM/physics/ electricity/Radio/Mass Media. We can trade for engineering/construction/optics/guilds/banking. Unless we go for the GM with banking!
Click to expand...
You mean Economics?
What techs do we need to complete our short term objectives? For instance would knights be enough to take out a longbow defence city? If not Curs requires - gunpowder/nationalism/MT - Note we don't need guilds or optics for Curs. Do we need cannons with Curs?
Click to expand...
Knights work well vs LBs, providing we use cats or trebs to knock'm down a peg or two. Getting GP deters the GS bulb through MM, but curs work much better than knights!

Is Justin or Toku likely to attack the barb city soon? Should we defend it with privateers?
Click to expand...
Not sure on the barbs, but yes with privateers. Could do some blockades against Mehmed too.

What power rating will we need to make Zara vassel? 1.4? 2+?
I wonder if after edu and nationalism we should take MT or astronomy with lib for early curs.
Click to expand...

Don't know on power rating, my guess would be 2+. Depending on what's in the large unexplored area on the map, do we need astro ?
 
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