What is "western" culture?

skadistic

Caomhanach
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After thinking about it I'm confused. I think that it is no longer "western" by way of geography. Look at Japan , South Africa, Australia, or Korea Geographicly not the west but culturaly they are for the most part. What makes "western" western? I quess my point is should it be called "western" or something else?
 
I think it really comes about from the old divide between the Christian West, the Islamic East and the Chinese/Far East. Then there was of course the cold war divide between the West (Liberal Democracy) and East (Soviet Dictatorships).

Japan is still cultrually very different from the west, it is only 'westernised' in the 'capitalist vs communist' sense.

I'd like to see what others have to say on the issue before I comment further.
 
Can you define it in terms of values (economic, social, rights etc) and common characteristics?
 
There are a few different forms of 'western culture'. They don't all fit together and they don't all apply to the same things. I'll try to identify some of them to get things going:

a) Religious: Christianity in short. Any deviations exclude you from 'Western' in the religious sense. Narrow definition of 'western' here but it gets included into the mix.

b) Cultural: This is a big one and breaks down to subfactors. It deals with language, arts, literature, cinema, music, dance, architecture and so on. In this case Western culture reaches all those who, for example, watch a Hollywood movie. They are consuming western culture because Hollywood cinema is informed by western philosophy, contains the English language, is possibly informed by a particular book in that language and typically has US or UK music in it. But the English language is not a determining factor, as any French man will tell you. The easiest way of summing up this category is by looking at the ideas and philosophies behind such culture products.

c) Economic: This basically means capitalist, not necessarily with free trading policies. What so often gets confused as 'western culture' (b) is basically an economic model and nothing to do with culture or religion. China is a good example here and so is Russia. The West in economic terms is what places the culturally different Japanese nation in the same basket as that of say The Netherlands. When you see an African drinking Coca-cola whilst wearing a Paul Smith suit he hasn't 'gone western', he's just a part of the global economic system and benefiting from the goods flowing through it.

d) Political: Typically democracy, but shades of conservatives, liberalism etc all get included as long as it remains representative. This is quite a dated definition imo and ended when the Cold War did. There is no monopoly on the development of democracy so it's not accurate to call it western.

e) Ethnic: WASPs in general but again it gets sticky as you move to the peripheries. Is a Bulgarian or Romanian as Western as a Frenchman or an Englishman? How does a Russian compare to an American? Sticky.


Now when you start putting these diverse elements together you end up getting what may be termed 'a western rating'. Here are some examples:

- Japan fulfills c) and d) for sure but falls short on the other factors.
- Korea ticks c) and d) but contains many Christians, so with a nod to a). Still not enough boxes ticked though. Next!
- Germany on the other hand ticks the boxes for a), c), d) and e) but isn't an entirely English speaking nation, so does it count itself as western as say the last candidates? This example shows you how tricky category b) is.
- The USA ticks all the boxes but then so does the UK. So are they each of the same Western rating?
 
Ram I'd have to put half a tick in box A for Japan it has a large christian, mostly catholic, population. And half a tick in box B for speaking english It is taught in most schools and spooken by a very large amount of the nation.

Now with the borders of culture starting to spread and over lap, in the future will the lines be blurred even more to a point where a majority of the world will have more boxes checked off then not?
 
western stems from what the UK used to rule.. thats why Oz is a random inclusion in western society.
 
the primary thing that distinguishes western culture from the rest of the world is its unique adoption (and indeed, creation of) the scientific method.
 
Xen said:
the primary thing that distinguishes western culture from the rest of the world is its unique adoption (and indeed, creation of) the scientific method.

I'll give you creation of. "Unique adoption of" is nonsense.
 
slozenger said:
western stems from what the UK used to rule.. thats why Oz is a random inclusion in western society.

Yeah, India and various pacific islands are prime examples of western culture.

Creation of scientific method? I'd say that the middle east and china were using that well before europe did.
 
I would believe it applies to the cultures derives from the Western Roman Empire and Roman Catholic Church, primary. Originally, from the fall of Rome to the beginnings of American colonization, it could be properly called European culture. However, the conquest and colonization of America and Oceania means that calling "European" culture European would be incorrect, as it would leave out these newly conquered territories. So it became "Western" culture.
 
^ What about the Greeks?
 
SomethingWitty said:
I'll give you creation of. "Unique adoption of" is nonsense.

tell that to Plato.
 
Babbler said:
Well, they influenced the Romans; so by the Romans, they influenced the West.
So would it be fair to say Greco-Roman descendants?
Rome before meeting the Greeks was no different than Sparta.....
 
Rambuchan said:
There are a few different forms of 'western culture'. They don't all fit together and they don't all apply to the same things. I'll try to identify some of them to get things going:

a) Religious: Christianity in short. Any deviations exclude you from 'Western' in the religious sense. Narrow definition of 'western' here but it gets included into the mix.

b) Cultural: This is a big one and breaks down to subfactors. It deals with language, arts, literature, cinema, music, dance, architecture and so on. In this case Western culture reaches all those who, for example, watch a Hollywood movie. They are consuming western culture because Hollywood cinema is informed by western philosophy, contains the English language, is possibly informed by a particular book in that language and typically has US or UK music in it. But the English language is not a determining factor, as any French man will tell you. The easiest way of summing up this category is by looking at the ideas and philosophies behind such culture products.

c) Economic: This basically means capitalist, not necessarily with free trading policies. What so often gets confused as 'western culture' (b) is basically an economic model and nothing to do with culture or religion. China is a good example here and so is Russia. The West in economic terms is what places the culturally different Japanese nation in the same basket as that of say The Netherlands. When you see an African drinking Coca-cola whilst wearing a Paul Smith suit he hasn't 'gone western', he's just a part of the global economic system and benefiting from the goods flowing through it.

d) Political: Typically democracy, but shades of conservatives, liberalism etc all get included as long as it remains representative. This is quite a dated definition imo and ended when the Cold War did. There is no monopoly on the development of democracy so it's not accurate to call it western.

e) Ethnic: WASPs in general but again it gets sticky as you move to the peripheries. Is a Bulgarian or Romanian as Western as a Frenchman or an Englishman? How does a Russian compare to an American? Sticky.


Now when you start putting these diverse elements together you end up getting what may be termed 'a western rating'. Here are some examples:

- Japan fulfills c) and d) for sure but falls short on the other factors.
- Korea ticks c) and d) but contains many Christians, so with a nod to a). Still not enough boxes ticked though. Next!
- Germany on the other hand ticks the boxes for a), c), d) and e) but isn't an entirely English speaking nation, so does it count itself as western as say the last candidates? This example shows you how tricky category b) is.
- The USA ticks all the boxes but then so does the UK. So are they each of the same Western rating?


I see some problems.

A- Judaism, agnosticism, and atheism are strong beliefs in western culture.

B- Okay, but Japan really is in this catergory. To do alot of 'American' things. They also produce their own products and contribute to the lifestyle of 'Western' people.

C- Capitalism yes, but there is also a degree of socialism is some nations of the 'west.'

D- 'Western' nations have representative governments, but so do other countries. I agree here.

E- WASPS? Why must a 'Westerner' be White Anglo-Saxon Protestant? That would exclude nations such as France and the United States (which are arguably two of the more important models of being 'Western').
 
Xen said:
tell that to Plato.

Plato died 2400 years ago, which was roughly 2100 years before the scientific method was developed and he was wholly ignorant of whether or not does non-western societies would adopt the scientific method within the next 2400 years.

And if he were alive today he'd agree with me and probably box your ears.
 
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