Medical experiments and physical abuse of unwanted fetus'

Mark1031 · Sep 21, 2005

Foster child Latiana Hamilton was found beaten and drowned in a bathtub on July 18. Her foster mother, Lena Cumberbatch, was arrested on July 27 for first-degree murder....
In the fiscal year 1999-2000, a shockingly high 81 out of every thousand children in Florida's foster care system were neglected or abused by their foster parents or by the staff at a foster care facility. In contrast, 18.9 out of every thousand children in Florida's general population were the subjects of a confirmed report of neglect or abuse at the hands of their biological parents or custodians

http://library.adoption.com/Laws-an...d-Abuse-by-Foster-Parents/article/5806/1.html

On March 10, 2004, The Alliance for Human Research Protection filed a complaint with the FDA and the federal Office of Human Research Protection about a series of AIDS drug experiments conducted on New York City children in foster care. That complaint prompted two separate investigations by the FDA and OHRP which are still on-going.
Articles in The New York Post and a documentary by BBC raised the alarm among the African-American and Latino community in NY-some of who have been protesting weekly in front of Incarnation Children's Center, the site of some of the drug experiments....
The children who were targeted to serve as human drug testing subjects - mostly poor children of color - were not afforded the protection of a personal advocate - as is mandated by federal regulations. (45 Code of Federal Regulations 46.409)

http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/05/04.php

Well since I got no response in the abortion thread I thought I'd start a new one. We have endless philosophical discussions of whether a 1 celled zygote is a person. Well there are plenty of unwanted real persons in the US foster care system waiting to be adopted here. http://photolisting.adoption.com/. Mostly older or with problems. Why are there endless threads worrying about fetuses and not a single one on the overburdened foster care system and the problem of dealing with abused and drug exposed babies. Because if Roe is overturned you will be getting a hell of a lot more of them. In fact that's all you will get. The middle class girls/women will take a short road trip for abortions and only those too poor with social, behavioral, drug problems will be producing the unwanted babies. This countries hysterical compassion for the fetus nauseates me given its relative care for the already born. All of you here with family incomes over 100K, Im sure you could fit one of these living kids into your family so they don't have to be housed in foster care families with 10 other throw away kids. Life can be an ugly complicated business. I await your compassion for these more mature unwanted fetuses.

GenMarshall · Sep 21, 2005

My goodness, something has got to be done to prevent this sad practace

.

Ultima Dragoon · Sep 21, 2005

About the orphans being teted drugs on... That's just wrong.

And unless a zygote has developed to the point of being able to feel pain or resemble a human, then it is not a human.

Abaddon · Sep 21, 2005

until it is self aware, i do not believe it is alive.

Cheetah · Sep 21, 2005

Then when is a human self-aware?

If I remember correctly, a human brain is not fully developed untill three years after we're born. That's so the babys head is smaller so it will be easier to give birth.

Mark1031 · Sep 21, 2005

As I suspected this falls to page 2 with just 4 posts. 2 ongoing abortion threads have well over 300 combined. I don't understand how it is morally defensible to have more concern and outrage and indignation over a single cell than over thousands of living children. My main point is not to suggest that you have to solve all our social problems to oppose abortion but you need to consider what you would do with all the the extra real born kids you would put into the position described in the first post.

Taliesin · Sep 21, 2005

but you need to consider what you would do with all the the extra real born kids you would put into the position described in the first post.

I have a modest proposal...

Fetus4188 · Sep 21, 2005

Taliesin said:
I have a modest proposal...

cgannon64 · Sep 21, 2005

The most prudent focus is on the lack of personal responsibility in creating these unwanted babies.

The people who give birth to babies and then give them up for adoption are a thousand times more immoral, lazy, irresponsible, and reprehensible than people who won't adopt babies. Man may be guilty of all the good he does not do, but he's certainly more guilty of all the evil he does.

downtown · Sep 21, 2005

but are they less moral then the people who abort them?

blackheart · Sep 21, 2005

cgannon64 said:
The most prudent focus is on the lack of personal responsibility in creating these unwanted babies.

The people who give birth to babies and then give them up for adoption are a thousand times more immoral, lazy, irresponsible, and reprehensible than people who won't adopt babies. Man may be guilty of all the good he does not do, but he's certainly more guilty of all the evil he does.

Are you kidding me? Its immoral to put up a baby for adoption in hopes that it will have a better life than if it lived with your in dirt poverty? THAT is immoral and irresponsible?!

cgannon64 · Sep 21, 2005

Someone who doesn't adopt a baby is obviously less at fault than someone who aborts one.

Pyrite · Sep 21, 2005

Haha, people have sex, irresponsible or not, unprotected or not, the only people who don't understand that are the dreaming moralizers.

cgannon64 · Sep 21, 2005

blackheart said:
Are you kidding me? Its immoral to put up a baby for adoption in hopes that it will have a better life than if it lived with your in dirt poverty? THAT is immoral and irresponsible?!

It's immoral to be so damned irresponsible that you have an unwanted baby in the first place!

Anyway, you have to admit that a good percentage of babies given up for adoption that end up in bad foster care would be much better off if the parents were willing to undertake some responsibility and try to raise the child. It would be hard, yes, but not impossible - the father is required by law to help support it, after all.

However, most would rather kill a fetus than work - or give a baby up than work. And, of course, most would rather abort a baby than take the foresight to avoid having one.

Pyrite · Sep 21, 2005

"Someone who doesn't adopt a baby is obviously less at fault than someone who aborts one."

Obviously? I don't see it. I can't see a fault with abortion.

cgannon64 · Sep 21, 2005

Well, assuming a fetus is human. That was an assumption of the OP in challenging us pro-lifers to adopt babies.

blackheart · Sep 21, 2005

cgannon64 said:
It's immoral to be so damned irresponsible that you have an unwanted baby in the first place!

Anyway, you have to admit that a good percentage of babies given up for adoption that end up in bad foster care would be much better off if the parents were willing to undertake some responsibility and try to raise the child. It would be hard, yes, but not impossible - the father is required by law to help support it, after all.

However, most would rather kill a fetus than work - or give a baby up than work. And, of course, most would rather abort a baby than take the foresight to avoid having one.

What a black and white world you live in. If it were only that easy.

Pyrite · Sep 21, 2005

"It's immoral to be so damned irresponsible that you have an unwanted baby in the first place!"

Accidents happen.

"Anyway, you have to admit that a good percentage of babies given up for adoption that end up in bad foster care would be much better off if the parents were willing to undertake some responsibility and try to raise the child. It would be hard, yes, but not impossible - the father is required by law to help support it, after all. "

I doubt it, seeing as how they've given away the baby, the child obviously would be unwanted and would have a terrible life.

"However, most would rather kill a fetus than work - or give a baby up than work. And, of course, most would rather abort a baby than take the foresight to avoid having one."

Aren't you rich? Do you even know what work is?

downtown · Sep 21, 2005

cgannon64 said:
It's immoral to be so damned irresponsible that you have an unwanted baby in the first place!

Anyway, you have to admit that a good percentage of babies given up for adoption that end up in bad foster care would be much better off if the parents were willing to undertake some responsibility and try to raise the child. It would be hard, yes, but not impossible - the father is required by law to help support it, after all.

However, most would rather kill a fetus than work - or give a baby up than work. And, of course, most would rather abort a baby than take the foresight to avoid having one.

Nope...i dont admit that at all. If there's a 17 year old kid, making 6 bucks an hour flipping burgers...he CANNOT raise that kid. He cant man up, suck it up, sell the xbox and raise the kid. He doesnt have the money (or the abilty to make the money in the near future), but most importantly, he doesnt have the maturity or the skills to do it. The baby will suffer. Having sex was irresponsible, yes. But he has a responsibilty for that child, and to make his wrong as right as he can. In *many many* cases, that means adoption is his best option.

I see NOTHING immoral about somebody putting a baby up for adopting. that's somebody being realalistic about their mistakes, and trying to do right for their child.

cgannon64 · Sep 21, 2005

Pyrite said:
Accidents happen.

1 million condoms break a year? I'm skeptical.

I doubt it, seeing as how they've given away the baby, the child obviously would be unwanted and would have a terrible life.

God forbid the parents have a change of heart and try to love their child!

Aren't you rich? Do you even know what work is?

I'm a solidly middle-class teenager, and no, I haven't yet held down a job.

That doesn't mean I don't realize the importance and virtues of work.

EDIT: My argument against putting babies up for adoption was merely suggesting that there are probably more babies put up for adoption than actually necessary. Is this so radical an argument?

Medical experiments and physical abuse of unwanted fetus'

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