Civilization Start Bias, from the XML

SevenSpirits

SevenSpirits

Immortal?
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Jul 7, 2007
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Spoiler :
Code: 
<!-- NOTE TO MODDERS: Each Civ can belong to only one of the four Start Bias categories, listed below. -->
	<!-- If a Civ has entries in any of the four following tables, any entries in later tables will end up being ignored. -->
	<!-- So... Coastal bias trumps River bias trumps Region Priority trumps Region Avoid. -->
	<!-- The best practice is to pick only one of the four types (or none), for each civilization. -->
	<Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_ENGLAND</CivilizationType>
			<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_OTTOMAN</CivilizationType>
			<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
		</Row>
	</Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
	<Civilization_Start_Along_River>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
			<StartAlongRiver>true</StartAlongRiver>
		</Row>
	</Civilization_Start_Along_River>
	<!-- NOTE TO MODDERS: Both single and multiple entries for Region Priority (per Civ) are supported! -->
	<!-- If a Civ has one Priority, then on maps without a region of that type, fallback methods apply. -->
	<!-- The fallback methods will match the given civ with a region that has the most tiles of the priority terrain type. -->
	<!-- For instance, if Russia is set for Tundra priority but a map has no Tundra regions, they will look for a region that has some tundra. -->
	<!-- If a Civ is given multiple priorities, fallbacks are not used: the bias isn't applied when a map has none of those region types. -->
	<Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_ARABIA</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_DESERT</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AZTEC</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_JUNGLE</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_INDIA</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_GRASS</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_IROQUOIS</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_RUSSIA</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_TUNDRA</RegionType>
		</Row>
	</Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
	<!-- NOTE TO MODDERS: Both single and multiple entries for Region Avoid (per Civ) are supported! -->
	<!-- Region Avoid only kicks in for Civs that do not have a Coast, River or Priority need. -->
	<!-- If a civ cannot avoid being placed in types it tries to avoid, the Avoid has to be ignored. -->
	<Civilization_Start_Region_Avoid>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_EGYPT</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_JUNGLE</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_EGYPT</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_SIAM</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
		</Row>
		<Row>
			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_SONGHAI</CivilizationType>
			<RegionType>REGION_TUNDRA</RegionType>
		</Row>
	</Civilization_Start_Region_Avoid>

Here's the plain-text summary:

England and Ottomans like to start coastal.

America likes to start by a river!

Arabia starts by desert, Aztec by jungle, India by grassland, Russia by tundra, and Iroquois by forest.

Egypt does not start in a forest or jungle region; Songhai does not start in a tundra region, and Siam does not start in a forest region.


How it appears to work from the description is that areas of the map are labeled by the prevalent terrain type. Then, some civs' starts are biased towards starting in them or away from them. For civs who like to start near things, if there is no region classified in that manner, it will still try to start near SOME tiles of that terrain type.
 
Huh. Starting by desert, jungle and tundra kinda seems like an unfortunate penalty, and starting by a river is a bonus (most civs already do this).

Thanks for extracting this.
 
I've been playing around a bit with Russia and I think their "tundra" start may actually be good. This is because it puts you in PLAINS! (And that's way better than grassland.)
 
SevenSpirits said:
How it appears to work from the description is that areas of the map are labeled by the prevalent terrain type. Then, some civs' starts are biased towards starting in them or away from them. For civs who like to start near things, if there is no region classified in that manner, it will still try to start near SOME tiles of that terrain type.
Click to expand...
The first game I rolled started me as Aztec, with the nearest jungle about 15 tiles away. This seems to matchup with the xml though, because on my continent was England (coastal), and America (on a river). XML is hierarchal like most coding languages right? In other words, England and Ottoman Empire will have their regional biased fulfilled if they spawn in a game before the game tries to fufill Songhai and Siam because that code comes first?
 
The Aztecs should always start by a river or a lake, as per their special building.

The Iroquois have some insane insane starts! With a 3-4 city empire, I find they can save more money than Arabia receives on trade routes, and since production is so very crucial in this build, their longhouses make a huge difference early-mid game.
 
Speaking of starting points, are most of you founding your first city at the initial spot or are some looking around a bit?
 
Wow, America gets the River? Because the United States of America TOTALLY started on a big river in reality, yeah right! Thats dumb.

When I think of Civs starting on a River, who do I think of? EGYPT. There is this thing called the Nile, have the Civ 5 creators heard of it? And then Babylon/Persia as well. There are these rivers called the Tigris and Euphretes, they are kindof famous. And I also think of India (Ganges) and China.
 
Alexfrog said:
Wow, America gets the River? Because the United States of America TOTALLY started on a big river in reality, yeah right! Thats dumb.

When I think of Civs starting on a River, who do I think of? EGYPT. There is this thing called the Nile, have the Civ 5 creators heard of it? And then Babylon/Persia as well. There are these rivers called the Tigris and Euphretes, they are kindof famous. And I also think of India (Ganges) and China.
Click to expand...

Yeah, really silly. America should have NO start bias.
 
The desert start for Arabia still gives pretty good quality land. I got a lot of gems, fish in my coastal cities, and a nice river with floodplains inland. "Poor" land like desert and tundra are less of an issue in Civ5, especially with the ability to get food from city states.
 
I think it makes sense for America's river start bias. Most of the colonies were founded near rivers (for obvious reasons), Washington D.C. is right alongside a river (the Potomac) and crossing a river greatly improved the success of the Revolution twice (one retreating, one attacking).
 
Randmcnally said:
I think it makes sense for America's river start bias. Most of the colonies were founded near rivers (for obvious reasons)
Click to expand...

Along with every other civilization ever! That's the thing, many other civs are much more famous for their rivers.
 
Babylon does not appear to have a start bias, or at least none of the files in the DLC folder mention it.
 
Lord Chambers said:
The first game I rolled started me as Aztec, with the nearest jungle about 15 tiles away. This seems to matchup with the xml though, because on my continent was England (coastal), and America (on a river). XML is hierarchal like most coding languages right? In other words, England and Ottoman Empire will have their regional biased fulfilled if they spawn in a game before the game tries to fufill Songhai and Siam because that code comes first?
Click to expand...

Well, no. XML, you see, is not a coding language. It is only a way to format data. The game is written in a combo of c++/lua. The c++ code loads the data from the xml into memory, from which it is then accessed during the game. So, depending on how the data is stored and the algorithm works, it may or may not be hierarchal. I found the code responsible for this in AssignStartingPlots.lua, but the file is huge and I don't have time to go through it.

Here is, however, a good snippet from the file:
"-- Some civs will be purposely placed in difficult terrain, depending on what
-- a given map instance has to offer. Civs placed in tough environments will
-- receive specific amounts of assistance, primarily in the form of Bonus food
-- from Wheat, Cows, Deer, Bananas, or Fish. This part of the new system is
-- very precisely calibrated and balanced, so be aware that any changes or
-- additions to how resources are placed near start points will have a
-- dramatic effect on the game, and could pose challenges of a sort that were
-- not present in the sphere of Civ4 modding."

That explains wulf's comment. I also find it odd that the code seems to be better documented than the civilopedia is.
 
Alexfrog said:
Wow, America gets the River? Because the United States of America TOTALLY started on a big river in reality, yeah right! Thats dumb.

When I think of Civs starting on a River, who do I think of? EGYPT. There is this thing called the Nile, have the Civ 5 creators heard of it? And then Babylon/Persia as well. There are these rivers called the Tigris and Euphretes, they are kindof famous. And I also think of India (Ganges) and China.
Click to expand...

Well, Washington DC and virtually every other large city in the 13 colonies was on a river so I guess one could say that's accurate enough. Certainly more accurate than Persia starting on a river given that there are no major rivers in Persia. Of course I can see the point that other civs are more famous for their centers being on rivers.
 
Mac2411 said:
Well, Washington DC and virtually every other large city in the 13 colonies was on a river so I guess one could say that's accurate enough. Certainly more accurate than Persia starting on a river given that there are no major rivers in Persia. Of course I can see the point that other civs are more famous for their centers being on rivers.
Click to expand...


Almost every single civ started on a river, maybe even every single one. It was even more important for civs in eras with less advanced technology. Like people said, the Tigris, Euphrates, Nile, Ganges and Yellow (forgot the other Chinese river) rivers are famous for being the beginnings of civilization.
 
andrewlt said:
Almost every single civ started on a river, maybe even every single one. It was even more important for civs in eras with less advanced technology. Like people said, the Tigris, Euphrates, Nile, Ganges and Yellow (forgot the other Chinese river) rivers are famous for being the beginnings of civilization.
Click to expand...

That would be the Yangtze river (in China). :)

Hmm, so if I'm looking for England or Ottomans, I can just send my scout along the coast to see if they're on my continent, eh? Good to know. Those two are so annoying in mid-game, I like to pound them early. Actually, I like to pound everyone early.
 
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