Trying deity

Hi,

I have played Civ II for a while and recently found this forum. I've managed to land a spaceship at Emperor level (2018 - whew!) but now I am trying to use the strategies on this forum to tackle deity level.

However, I'm not getting so far. It seems that there are so many tips that there are too many things to do at once!

After you have created a few cities at deity, the next ones are more and more unhappy (and make the existing ones more unhappy) - even with a temple you are juggling food and civil disorder sometimes. Am I creating too many cities too early (more than 8, say)? Does it get easier with more advanced forms of government?

Then there is what to do with settlers. Do they go straight off to build another city or do they build a road as they go along, or do they improve the city they came from? Do you have settlers hanging around at your existing cities or is expansion the priority. If expansion is even at the expense of roads, when it comes to caravans they are achingly slow.

Then caravans. Trade seems to play a major part at the higher levels. Should I just be cranking out caravans and trying to get them as far as possible? Is it better to have caravans coming from coastal cities and crossing seas on triremes? Are caravans for trading more important than contributing to wonders?

Finally military pieces. Having one seems to calm people down. Does having two calm them more? It doesn't look like it.

With all the settler, caravan, military and temple production, there is hardly any capacity left to do anything else? Is that OK? I try this and find I'm at 1500 AD with a couple of wonders and ten or so small cities with the AI civilizations overtaking me. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance

doublecross

Doublecross,

Welcome to Civfanatics! Yes, playing a game at deity involves juggling and balancing many different issues. There are plenty of good strategy guides around, So I'll attempt to answer your questions and point you at a thread or two that should get you well on your way.

As for creating cities, and more cities making more people unhappy, there's a limit for number of cities, and every multiple increases unhappiness in cities. For a normal map the limits are -
Despotism - 4
Monarchy - 6
Republic - 8
Democracy/Fundamentalism - 10

So the answer is, yes, it gets easier with more advanced forms of government. If you're playing for a landing game, you can stick with these limits and be fine. I believe there's a different limit for large maps, but I don't recall it at the moment.

As for what the settlers do, expansion is a priority until you hit the aforementioned limits, then they build roads between the cities, then improve terrain (with the Super Science City Getting priority if you have one).

About caravans - in general, yes, you should be cranking them out and trying to get them as far as possible. And since you get a larger bonus for delivering them to a different continent and triremes can transport them quickly, yes, you should be delivering them overseas.

Are caravans more important for trading than for wonders? That's a complex question, and it's a tough line to walk in the early game. Make sure you get the wonders you "need", but don't neglect trading, especially for high quality demanded commodities. Pre-renaissance trading can easily get you 200 gold delivery bonuses for undemanded caravans, or even higher depending on how far you can send them. I seem to recall getting over 600 or so for a demanded gems caravan in the very early game.

Military units do calm down people in the city they're present in, under Despotism, Monarchy, or Communism. Up to three units can enforce "Martial Law" like this, and each one will make one unhappy citizen content, or one very unhappy (black hat) citizen unhappy (red). In communism, this effect is doubled (each unit makes two unhappy citizens content).

Again, it is very difficult to balance all the different aspects of the game, particularly at deity. Learning proper balance is key to becoming a great player. I recommend two excellent threads, one written by ElephantU here and another written by Solo over at Apolyton. The former is tips and tricks for new players, and is QUITE comprehensive with regards to different parts of the game. The second is An early landing guide, with which you can easily find yourself landing on Alpha Centauri well before the retirement date, even on Deity (I'm no expert by any means, but can regularly manage a landing in the 1800s on Deity). You'll be amazed when you see what the experts can do - landings before 1000 AD! Finally, there's an index to other threads here that condenses the most useful ones.

Tips and Tricks for new players
Solo's Early Landing Strategy Guide
Civ II link Index Page

That's quite a lot of material to read, but it will vastly improve your game. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions!

Banach,

Thanks for such a detailed answer, and for the welcome!

If I may ask one supplementary question, could you explain a bit more about number of cities and unhappiness? Are you saying that while in despotism you should stick to four cities, then 6 in monarchy etc.? Or just that (in despotism) up to four doesn't make people unhappy, 5-8 makes some unhappy, 9-12 makes more unhappy and so on and you need to manage this?

Thanks again.

Doublecross,

You may ask as many supplementary questions as you want! I'm a hopeless addict of this game, and enjoy helping others become better players.

Regarding unhappiness and number of cities -

First of all, managing happiness is probably one of the toughest things to learn about on higher levels.

On deity level, the first citizen is content, and every further citizen is unhappy (red). What I meant by the limits was that in despotism, with four cities, this rule applies. After the fifth city is added, some of the cities will have the first citizen unhappy (all remaining ones unhappy). This is true for the sixth, seventh, and eighth cities. Note I said SOME of your cities will experience this, not all. After adding the ninth city under despotism at deity, Some cities will start with the first citizen very unhappy (black), and will require TWO military units just to make the first citizen content! The thirteenth city then causes some cities to have the first two citizens very unhappy. This continues at additional multiples, and the same rule applies for monarchy (except now it's the seventh city that causes some to begin unhappy, and the 13th to cause very unhappy). This is why occasionally founding a new city can cause existing, previously content cities to fall into disorder.

That's why Solo's early landing guide advocates that you stick with these limits, as the extra unhappy person can cause some tricky problems with trying to have "we love the president" days later on. Furthermore, you don't really need more cities to have a successful landing game. Although you CAN just as well have quite a few more cities and still have a successful game, if you're a beginner you'd do just fine to try to stick with the limits (4 in despotism, 6 in monarchy, etc). Managing an enormous empire requires a bit more experience at managing happiness issues.

On another note, there is a trick involved regarding very unhappy citizens. Well, I guess not so much a trick as it is just a fundamental game mechanic. A temple, with mysticism, typically makes two unhappy citizens content, or one very unhappy citizen content. However, two luxuries (or the hanging gardens) will make a very unhappy citizen happy! This means that (quite ironically), it's actually easier to maintain happiness in a HUGE empire than in a small or mid-size one!

One more quick tip for you - I rarely have cities fall into disorder. The trick is to ANTICIPATE the unhappiness issue and deal with it before it happens, not let a city fall into disorder, then have it drop what it's building to rush a temple or warriors. My general rule in the very early game in deity is - first a city builds a warrior to allow it to grow to size two without falling into disorder (the warrior also plays a minor role as a defender to prevent walk-in conquest of your cities). When it grows to size two, I typically re-arrange the workers to halt/slow growth, usually by putting them both on forests or production/trade heavy specials. This levels growth with no cost, and allows you to produce faster. This is another reason to stay with less cities - it requires less micromanagement. In a small monarchy with six cities it's very easy to check on all the cities every now and then to keep them out of disorder. As cities build temples, more warriors, or wonders, I arrange the workers to allow the city to grow again.

Feel free to ask more questions, and good luck gaming!

1) At deity, building hanging gardens is invaluable, I build it in my palace city as soon as possible; it makes the first resident happy, and three of them happy where it is built. This lets your palace city grow larger, and you also increase your science because The city is in celebration mode which adds an extra trade in squares which have some trade. Later on, in democracy, it helps you to continuously celebrate.
2) Research towards monarchy ASAP. do not trade for techs that do not lead to monarchy, or you will slow up the research.
3) With raging hordes barbarians, my first tech is horseback riding. An attacking horse is the best defense against barbarians. This delays monarchy a bit, but if the barbs arrive early you can lose a city which is a real setback.

Thanks baruch and geofelt.

I still don't quite understand the relationship between happiness, numbers of military units in cities, and type of government. Is there any advantage happiness-wise of stationing more than one military unit in a city for any type of government? Will a settler do in an emergency or does it have to be a proper offensive units?

doublecross said:

Thanks baruch and geofelt.

I still don't quite understand the relationship between happiness, numbers of military units in cities, and type of government. Is there any advantage happiness-wise of stationing more than one military unit in a city for any type of government? Will a settler do in an emergency or does it have to be a proper offensive units?

Click to expand...

Sorry If I wasn't very clear, I'll attempt to address the entire happiness issue. There are many factors that affect happiness, and an order in which they are applied (which is critical). You can view the order of processing by going to the city view screen and clicking "happy" in the lower right-hand corner. If I recall correctly, this is the order in which they are applied (I'm not at home and can't pull up a screen).

First - Difficult level - At deity, the first citizen will be content and every other citizen will be unhappy (red). At emperor, the first two citizens will be content, and the rest unhappy. At King, the first three will be content, and so on.

Second - Riot factor. The number of cities effect goes in here. As I've mentioned before, for a normal map the limits are -
Despotism - 4
Monarchy - 6
Republic - 8
Democracy/Fundamentalism - 10 (Yes, this matters for fundy, and the point will be made clear soon.)
Every time you EXCEED a multiple of the riot factor, SOME of your cities will experience one additional unhappy citizen. In the event that all citizens are already unhappy, citizens begin starting very unhappy (black). This means that at 5,6,7, or 8 cities, in Despotism, at Deity (normal map), some cities will experience one more unhappy citizen, which means all of them will be unhappy. At 9, 10, 11, or 12 cities, under despotism, deity, some will experience two additional unhappy people. Since all citizens were already unhappy after the first (5-8 cities) unhappy person was added, this means the first citizen will be very unhappy (black).
EXCEPTION - Communism has no riot factor.

Third - Luxuries - Any trade in the city devoted to luxuries takes effect. The very unhappy citizens (if present) get the luxuries first. Two luxuries will make a very unhappy citizen happy. Then the content citizens are processed, they are each given two luxuries to make them happy. Unhappy citizens (red) are processed last. Each unhappy citizen is first given two luxuries to make him content, and then two more luxuries to make him happy.
NOTE - A city of size N can only use 2N luxuries, any additional have no effect. (This is what it looks like from a quick glance at my current GOTM).

Fourth - Temple/Cathedral/Colosseum/Courthouse Effects. A temple, with mysticism, has the power to make two unhappy citizens content (one without mysticism, and four with the oracle. On a related note, I actually don't know what happens in the unlikely event you capture the oracle without having the mysticism tech. I presume it makes two content then?). Cathedrals make three unhappy citizens content, theology increases this by one, and communism decreases it by one. Colosseums make three people content (four after electronics). If there are any very unhappy citizens left, they are processed first, and require twice as much to make content. This means that while a Temple, with mysticism, will normally make two unhappy (red) citizens content, it will make only one very unhappy (black) citizen content. After all very unhappy citizens are processed, remaining "Temple/cathedral/colosseum Power" is applied to the unhappy (red) citizens to make them content. Excess has no other effect (i.e. A Temple in a city whose citizens are all already happy or content at this step does nothing.) Courthouses and Palaces, under a democracy, upgrade one citizen at this point, usually a content to happy.
Note - Since Michelangelo's Chapel counts as a cathedral in every city, it's effect is processed at this step as a cathedral normally would.
EXCEPTION: FUNDAMENTALISM - Temples/Colosseums, Cathedrals, and JS Bach's Generate TITHES at this step. They have no effect on happiness.

Fifth - Martial Law - In despotism, monarchy, or communism, up to three military units can institute martial law. If I recall correctly, only units with a non-zero attack can institute martial law, so a settler won't help. As with everything else, very unhappy citizens (black)are processed first, followed by the unhappy citizens (red). In despotism and monarchy, each military unit that enforces martial law causes one very unhappy citizen (black) to be unhappy (red), or one unhappy citizen (red) to be content. In Communism, every military unit that enforces martial law causes one very unhappy citizen (black) to be content, or two unhappy cititzens (red) to be content. (I'm not completely certain here, as I never use communism, but I know martial law is twice as effective, so I'm just assuming that's how it's processed).

Sixth - Unhappiness due to unit away from cities/Bombers/Nukes - Only in republic or democracy. In republic, the first military unit (non-zero attack) out of a city causes no problem. Every other military unit out of a city which is not fortified in a fortress within three squares of one of your cities causes one citizen to be unhappy. (Note, t doesn't matter whether the citizen was happy or content beforehand, he jumps immediately to unhappy (red). In democracy, EVERY military unit out of the city, not fortified in a friendly fortress within three squares of a city causes TWO unhappy citizens (One if you have a police station). Additionally, Certain units (I believe bombers, nukes, helicopters, and cruise missiles) Cause the same unhappiness just by their existence (it doesn't matter where they are).

NOTE - fifth and six are mutually exclusive. There is no martial law in democracy or republic, and no unhappiness from units in despotism, monarchy, or communism. Both are absent from fundamentalism.

Seventh - Fundamentalism - any remaining unhappy or very unhappy citizens are made content.

Eighth - Wonders -J.S. Bach's Cathedral, Hanging gardens, Cure for Cancer, and Shakespeare's Theater -
Bach's - Makes two unhappy citizens content. This is the reason Why Bach's is so powerful for a democracy. With Women's Suffrage, it allows every city to support two military units in the field with no unhappiness. By itself, it allows size two cities to support unlimited military units in the field (limited only by production).
Hanging Gardens - Same effect as 2 luxuries in all other cities, unsure about exact effect in the city it's built (Is it 6 luxuries? or just three happy citizens?)
Cure for cancer - If there are any citizens left who aren't happy in any city, one of them is made happy (I think this is how it works).
Shakespeare's Theater - Any remaining unhappy or very unhappy citizens are made content.
EXCEPTION: FUNDAMENTALISM - As noted above, JS Bach's generates tithes in Fundamentalism, and has no effect on happiness. Everything else has the same effect.


Finally, you can see by #3 That the riot factor DOES matter for fundamentalism, as it effects how many happy citizens one gets, critical for we love the high priest day.

So I hope that has made it a little more clear for you, I attempted to be as comprehensive as I could, although I'm not quite certain about one or two of the issues (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong). So the short answer is, yes, It helps to have up to three military units enforce martial law, but I am pretty sure zero attack units (like settlers) do nothing. Let me know if there's anything else with which I can help

Wow, great to see it all in one place. It was the nugget about five and six being mutually exclusive that I was particularly interested in and hadn't realised before.

Thanks!

If you are really trying to be exhaustive you should add Michelangelo's and the effects of Communism and Electronics to "Fourth", and add Shakespeare's to "Eighth".

ElephantU said:

If you are really trying to be exhaustive you should add Michelangelo's and the effects of Communism and Electronics to "Fourth", and add Shakespeare's to "Eighth".

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder, ElephantU. I updated the post. I changed a couple other things too - I checked, and it seems to me that luxuries are applied first to very unhappy, then content, then unhappy. This seems strange but it's what I see from the happiness view in the cities. Additionally, a quick check made me realize that Fundamentalism is applied before wonders (Not that it matters, but I changed it for completeness sake). I also added a couple more details.

ElephantU: I am not aware of any happiness benefit connected with electronics. Am I missing something?
Doublecross: Communism is one of my preferred governments. You get good production because of three free supported units, low luxury cost if you have two garrison units and good science. You can change governments easily if you build the statue of liberty, and I usually do.

1) If you are at war (offensive war) and have a few (or many) techs left to research, then Communism is good for you (especially since it is the only government permitting to build the most powerful unit in this game, namely THE VET SPY ).

2) Any government is OK for fighting defensive wars.

3) Fundy is OK if you don't need a strong research.

geofelt said:

ElephantU: I am not aware of any happiness benefit connected with electronics. Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

The discovery of electronics increases the effect of colosseums, just like mysticism increases the effect of temples. Colosseums make three unhappy people content before electronics is discovered, four after.

Banach,

On rereading your scholarly work on the pursuit of happiness, can I just check one word? Under 'fourthly' you say

banach said:

Excess has no other effect (i.e. A Temple in a city whose citizens are already happy does nothing (exception - fundamentalism, where these improvements generate tithes).

Click to expand...

Do you mean 'happy'? From the previous couple of sentences it seems that temples only convert unhappy to content, they don't convert content to happy. Is that right?

doublecross said:

Do you mean 'happy'? From the previous couple of sentences it seems that temples only convert unhappy to content, they don't convert content to happy. Is that right?

Click to expand...

Quite right, my mistake. Temples make unhappy or very unhappy citizens content, they do nothing to content citizens. I updated the post.

One more minor correction to Cathedrals: they start by affecting 3 workers, Theology gives them +1, and Communism gives them -1. You have correctly listed Mikes effect at step 4.

Another effect you have neglected is Courthouse/Palace under Democracy. One extra worker is promoted "upwards" in happiness one step (usually a content to a happy).

ElephantU, thanks for the reminder. I often times forget just how complicated all of these features are, but the courthouse is important for celebration in democracies, depending on the situation. That extra happy citizen can be critical I also have to add that little quirk about number of luxuries a city can use.

Ooh, just spotted a slight error in Tips and Tricks for new players: under 5 WE LOVE THE (current leader) DAY it should say 'light blue rather than dark blue' rather than 'dark blue rather than light blue'.

New question: once you have aqeduct and sewer system, if there is enough food are there any limits on a city size?

doublecross said:

Ooh, just spotted a slight error in Tips and Tricks for new players: under 5 WE LOVE THE (current leader) DAY it should say 'light blue rather than dark blue' rather than 'dark blue rather than light blue'.

New question: once you have aqeduct and sewer system, if there is enough food are there any limits on a city size?

Click to expand...

Yes, there is a limit. The "Natural limit" on a city is - Assuming you have all grassland on the city radius, plus 4 wheat specials at the corners, all with farmalnd, you will have 17*4 + 4*6 = 92 food. Add in three incoming food routes, and you get 95 food. That will support a population of 47-48 (It will keep toggling since 95 is an odd number. However, by delivering tons of food caravans, you can get to the city size limit imposed by the game, which I believe is 127. This is because a delivered food caravan dumps half a box of food into the receiving city, and a city with a full food box will grow even with a food shortage. This is how people achieve ultra-high scores - Cities with productions of 50 and granaries (or the pyramids) just produce food caravans every turn and swap them. This is what people refer to as "unnaturally large cities", as the cities are growing despite having a huge food deficit.

Three things to add:

1 As we see below the max city size is 118 (2^7). On D+n the AI seems to relish growing to such unnatural levels, though I doupt they do it by the method discribed here.



2 JSB only contents red hats; black hats are only partialy placated (below).



3 Since we are being exhastive: On D+n the Capital city experiences D+0 happiness as long as it has no military unts suported by it not in a friendly city other than itself.