Cities size 70 !!! How ?!

W

Warlord [KC]

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 3, 2001
Messages
6
Location
Rio de Janeiro, RJ, Brazil
I'd like to know how can I evolve a city to a size bigger than 43. After that a normal city is not able to produce more food for the citizens so, I think, it will not grow any longer. But all these record saves do have cities bigger than 70 ! I wonder if only freights can do that.
I am a deity level player, one of the brazilian's best, but I can't arrive at any conclusion about it. I will be realy thank for this information.
 
If you think 70 is large, take a look at this game in the timelines section. Rome is size 120!
http://www.civfanatics.com/RomeTime/RomanTime1.shtml

To make super large cities, you need to use plenty of food caravans in addiiton to We Love the President's Day. Two food caravans will increase the population by 1, since one food caravan fills half of the granary.
 
Thunderfall,

I've looked at the link containing the history of Rome. It's brilliant! Dunno how you had the patience to record all that information. Well done! Maybe one day I will do that as well.
 
Cities that size are a waste of time. They're for single player game showboating. They serve no purpose other than that. So why build them?

(unless you're the type that likes that sort of dull and monotonous crap)
 

posted September 03, 2001 10:02 PM
I'd like to know how can I evolve a city to a size bigger than 43. After that a normal city is not able to produce more food for the citizens so, I think, it will not grow any longer. But all these record saves do have cities bigger than 70 ! I wonder if only freights can do that.

I am a deity level player, one of the brazilian's best, but I can't arrive at any conclusion about it. I will be realy thank for this information.
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All the HOF games do not have "super size" cities.

Personally, I don't use the FCT (Food Caravan Trick). In fact, my largest city ever is only 43, and I've had less than ten size 42 cities (ever). I've had lots of size 40 and 41, though... as those can be grown from start to max size in less than 35 turns, using only the WLTP (and lots of gold!) .

In Shadowdale's defense, his humongous game not only used food caravans, but the FCT. And that is totally OK, because he made it clear from the outset that that was what he intended to do. His use of the FCT to make so many large cities must have taken a lot of time and effort to go thru all that freight delivery, and that is what make his high scoring game special!

Some people have suggested Shadowdale's game is invalid because of the food deficiets... those that have suggested such nonsense simply don't know how food caravans (& freight) work. It is indeed not only possible to sustain a huge food deficit, but to actaully force a city to grow without hurting the source city's food production by more than one unit of food. That is the FCT!

BTW, It is possible for someone to eclipse Shadowdale's game (or for Shadowdale to do so), if they have enough time to do it. In theory, the max score should be just shy of 40,000 points.

As for me, I prefer not to use the FCT, and don't use it to force my cities to grow, even in my own private SP games. In some games, however, I used a food caravan on occasion to stop a city from starving, and I use lots of the to build wonders and Spaceship parts. But don't let yourself get confused... food caravans and the FCT are not synonymous.


BTW, in theory, given enough game years, a city could reach a size of 46 with "natural" growth, if it had 4 wheat and/or oaisis specials, and 17 grassland tiles. It could celebrate up to 41, then excess food could grow it beyond that by filling the food bin. In my opinion, it is even OK to use a food caravan to assist that city to grow to its "natural" size, though the exercise is kind of a waste, since a city larger than size 37 cannot help an empire in any way. It will only add one point to the Civ II score for each citizen past size 37.
 
In theory, one should be able to build a city to be as large as 127. Whenever I play in cheat mode just for the hell of it, the AI will allow you to adjust the size of a city up to 127. But nothing more.
 

...
one should be able to build a city to be as large as 127.
...
Click to expand...

127 is a programming limitation. I've seen a game where someone came very close to it... Andu had a 120+ city in his Rome game .
 
Originally posted by Gregski:
Thunderfall,

I've looked at the link containing the history of Rome. It's brilliant! Dunno how you had the patience to record all that information. Well done! Maybe one day I will do that as well.
Click to expand...

I didn't write that timeline. Andu Indorin did.
 
Originally posted by Thunderfall:<br /><strong>

I didn't write that timeline. Andu Indorin did. </strong><hr></blockquote>

...In that case well done Andu. Maybe someone will write a program to generate these. Perhaps an addon to Civ3.
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Size 127! my my, amazing how fattenning camel meat is, worse than eating hippos. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
 
I'd like to thank everybody. I did the food trick and it's worked just fine.<br />Starlifter, thanks for your so detailed explanation and I'm curious about the highest possible score. Why 40000 ? How do you know that ?<br />Some friends of mine have asked me that question.

Thanks
 
<br />posted September 15, 2001 01:51 AM <br /> I'd like to thank everybody. I did the food trick and it's worked just fine. Starlifter, thanks for your so detailed explanation <br /><hr></blockquote>

You're Welcome.

<br />and I'm curious about the highest possible score. Why 40000 ? How do you know that ?<br /> Some friends of mine have asked me that question.<br /><hr></blockquote>

This is how I figure a max theoretical score just shy of 40,000:

Citizens - 32,385 (255*127)<br />Happiness - 5,100 (255*20)<br />Peace - 100 (34*3=100)<br />Wonders - 560 (28*20)<br />Barbarians - 25 <br />Future Tech - 1,275 (255*5)<br />Spaceship - 400

TOTAL - 39,845 (in Theory <img src="icon12.gif" border="0"> )

<br />EDIT: Added Pix.



[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: starlifter ]</p>
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<br />by ferenginar:

Excuse me for being a bit slow here, but what is the FCT?<br /> <hr></blockquote>

<br />Here are some extractions from the posts in this thread:

<br />the FCT (Food Caravan Trick). <br /><hr></blockquote>

It is indeed not only possible to sustain a huge food deficit, but to actaully force a city to grow without hurting the source city's food production by more than one unit of food. That is the FCT!<br /> <hr></blockquote>

<br />
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thankyou starlifter, but I had read the thread, I was looking for a description of the FCT not what FCT stood for.
It is indeed not only possible to sustain a huge food deficit, but to actaully force a city to grow without hurting the source city's food production by more than one unit of food. That is the FCT!<hr></blockquote><br />But How?
Click to expand...
 
<br />But How?<br /> <hr></blockquote>

Ah ha! So that was what you meant (you originally asked "what", not "how" <img src="icon12.gif" border="0"> ).

Duke has it right. Civ II will force a city to grow on the next turn if the food box is competely filled. The way it gets fills, and food deficits are irrelevant... the city is gunna grow. Normally, you add food with the natural surplus. By ramming food caravans (& freight) into a city, the box will fill. On the next turn, the city will grow by one.

But this is not the "trick" part of the FCT. This is merely using a food caravan. The trick (cheat) comes when you keep using food caravans from the same source city to the same destination city. Due to a bug (oversight) by the game's programmers, the source city will only be charged one food per turn from it's surplus, which means (in effect) a city can force a neighbor to grow unnaturally, and with no corresponding game balance. In effect, you are simply using shields to cause growth, and the intended penalty on the source city (one unit of food per caravan delivered) is short-circuited.

More than any other single game bug, this is the one I personally object to the most in comparison games like the GOTMs or Successions, since it can rapidly unbalance a game, raise the bar, and force eveyone into a truly mind-numbing exercise to tediously build unnatural cites that should not exist in the first place. And remember, the only possible motivation for anyone to build a city larger than 37 is to add one point per citizen to your score. Citizen #37 and beyond can contribute nothing positive to an empire.

On the other hand, if someone wants to go for an absolute "max" record, by all means... let those caravans rip and have at it! I'd probably recommend a person talk to Shadowdale first (seriously!), to find out the time involved... it would be quite tedious to go for 30,000+ score <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . I'm here to tell you that even a 15,000+ score with no FCT takes over a month of regular play <img src="icon12.gif" border="0"> .

In summary, food caravans (even when delivering them to a city) and the FCT are not the same thing, and not synonymous. One can use food caravans to deliver food to cities in a game... it only becomes the FCT when you begin forcing growth in the destination city without the corresponding food route penalty in the source city.

Hope that helps, because the FCT is probably a confusing issue for many!

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