The Georgaphy of Europe

I like the idea of Siberia being Europe

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Veles

Veles

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The eastern border of Europe has been shifted eastwards several times throughout history.

First it was the Ister river (Danube), then it was Tanais (Donets), then Rha (Volga). Now it's Ural mountains and Ural river.

So, unlike Africa or America, Europe is pretty much an imaginary concept. And despite it's dominance in almost every area during the last couple of millenia it's still second smallest "continent". A peninsula of Eurasia, with Asia being 4 times bigger. So what kind of "Eur"-asia is that? More like Asiope. Wouldn't adding Siberia in the geographical concept of Europe make sense and balance things out?

So, whaddya think? Are there any good reasons why Siberia shouldn't be considered Europe in geografical sense?

That will also end this annoying notion, that Russia is somehow, not a fully European country (in geografical sense).

P.S. Also in that case Poland would surely stop being Eastern Europen :mischief:
 
Why is there any need to add Siberia to "Europe" other than "Europe looks too small"?
 
I, personally, don't see Russia in Europe at all, and I see the border line for Europe in the east to be the Russian border.
 
Poland is in central Europe.

But I consider there to be 6 geographical continents:
North America
South America
Africa
Eurasia
Antarctica
Australia

When you talk about news and general discussion, I consider there to be 9:
Oceania (Australia + Pacific)
North America (US, Canada, usually Mexico)
Central America (Carribean, NA countries south of Mexico)
South America
Europe (including all of Russia)
Middle East (SW Asia and northern Africa)
Asia (Eastern Eurasia)
Sub-Saharan Africa
Poles (North, South, Greenland)
 
bombshoo said:
Let's just rename all of Afro-Eurasia to "East America".
Click to expand...

Or call the Americas 'Western Europe', Asia 'Eastern Europe' and Africa 'Southern Europe'. Europe can then also be referred to as 'The Centre of the World' with Britain as the 'Capital of the Centre of the World'. Yes, that works.
 
Dachs said:
Why is there any need to add Siberia to "Europe" other than "Europe looks too small"?
Click to expand...

That's a good enough reason.

There's no "need". It's a matter of taste, a question of aesthetics, and Russia not being partly in Asia.

Besides, calling it Europe reduces, at least in theory, the possible Chinese claims on it. A bit of wishfull thinking, yes. :mischief:

Think of it this way:

Siberia is populated with 40 mil of whom 90% are Russian Slavs. Slavs are the most populouse Indo-European people, the very epitome of European along with Germanics and Celts.

Siberia generally consists of 3 river-basins: of the Ob, the Yenisei and Lena. All of them flow into Arctic ocean just like Dvina or Pechora or other rivers of Russian European North. It's sentimental, but for me Europe means the people of the North.

Think about all the awesomeness Europe instantly gets.
 
Veles said:
That's a good enough reason.

There's no "need". It's a matter of taste, a question of aesthetics, and Russia not being partly in Asia.

Besides, calling it Europe reduces, at least in theory, the possible Chinese claims on it. A bit of wishfull thinking, yes. :mischief:

Think of it this way:

Siberia is populated with 40 mil of whom 90% are Russian Slavs. Slavs are the most populouse Indo-European people, the very epitome of European along with Germanics and Celts.

Siberia generally consists of 3 river-basins: of the Ob, the Yenisei and Lena. All of them flow into Arctic ocean just like Dvina or Pechora or other rivers of Russian European North. It's sentimental, but for me Europe means the people of the North.

Think about all the awesomeness Europe instantly gets.
Click to expand...
Your argument also means that the Americas - or at least, the Americas east of the Rockies and Andes - should be "Europe" as well: populated by people that speak an Indo-European language and that live in river basins that flow into the same ocean as do the ones in Europe.

And it's really not just a question of aesthetics, because "Europe" is a common reference term employed because if two people use it in conversation with each other, it's reasonably certain that they're talking about the same thing. You can't just add in Siberia by fiat because it seems more natural to you - the term's utility as a reference becomes nonsense if you do that.
 
Ramius75 said:
no, lets Add "europe" into Asia... thats the proper way. :)
Click to expand...

But that would imply that Asia is better than Europe, which we all know is not true. ;)
 
Dachs said:
Your argument also means that the Americas - or at least, the Americas east of the Rockies and Andes - should be "Europe" as well: populated by people that speak an Indo-European language and that live in river basins that flow into the same ocean as do the ones in Europe.
Click to expand...

Well, to me 'Mericans and Canadians are Europeans in every sense bar geografical.


Dachs said:
And it's really not just a question of aesthetics, because "Europe" is a common reference term employed because if two people use it in conversation with each other, it's reasonably certain that they're talking about the same thing. You can't just add in Siberia by fiat because it seems more natural to you - the term's utility as a reference becomes nonsense if you do that.
Click to expand...

Dude, I understand all that. I'm talking about expanding the concept, about starting to think anew.

Is clinging to old established terms worth missing all the cool opportunities of being bigger, stronger, more awesome? And possibly unite as a super-duper-uberest ultimate world power evar?
 
I always thought of the part of Russia west of the Ural Mountains as part of Europe and east as part of Asia. It seems logical to me really.
 
Veles said:
Well, to me 'Mericans and Canadians are Europeans in every sense bar geografical.
Click to expand...
We already have a term for the thing you're talking about: "places where people who speak Indo-European languages live". That's really only the substantial reason you've given for changing the definition of the word, and since that encompasses almost the entire world, it's not a very useful reason to redefine "Europe".
Veles said:
Dude, I understand all that. I'm talking about expanding the concept, about starting to think anew.

Is clinging to old established terms worth missing all the cool opportunities of being bigger, stronger, more awesome? And possibly unite as a super-duper-uberest ultimate world power evar?
Click to expand...
So "change is good because it is change" (that's not very Russian of you ;))?

I kinda doubt that the definition of the word "Europe" is going to mean anything if you want the Americans, EU countries, and Russia to unite in some super-country of awesome.
 
Veles said:
Is clinging to old established terms worth missing all the cool opportunities of being bigger, stronger, more awesome? And possibly unite as a super-duper-uberest ultimate world power evar?
Click to expand...

Seriously, this sounds like something an 8-year old would say.

What reason do you possibly have for wanting this other than the fact that you live in Russia and hate that Western Europeans don't identify you as truly European? It's like the Americans who demand to be identified as Amerindian because their great-great-great-great grandmother was 1/4 Sioux.
 
Owen Glyndwr said:
Seriously, this sounds like something an 8-year old would say.

What reason do you possibly have for wanting this other than the fact that you live in Russia and hate that Western Europeans don't identify you as truly European? It's like the Americans who demand to be identified as Amerindian because their great-great-great-great grandmother was 1/4 Sioux.
Click to expand...

I hate being generalised as 'European' by Americans but we all have to live with it. And if you find an 8 year old saying that, WOW.
 
aimeeandbeatles said:
I always thought of the part of Russia west of the Ural Mountains as part of Europe and east as part of Asia. It seems logical to me really.
Click to expand...

That's because people usually picture the Urals as some sort of natural wall, the high peaks separating the two continents. While in fact Urals are one of the oldest mountain chains on Earth, and by now look more like hills in most parts not really giving an impression of a wall.
 
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