Many Leaders Game 8 - Fall From Heaven

EDIT: story added.

Nicola Valas awoke with a gasp, her small frame bolting upright against sweaty sheets. In the courtyard below her window, the sound only slightly muffled by the thick and unrelenting rain, her father’s prized hunting dog, now maimed and retired, barked combatively. Nicola swung her frail pain-wracked legs off the high goose-down mattress and hurried, as best as she could to the shutters. Throwing them open with a bang against the manor’s stone outer walls, the 7-year-old peered into the dark and the rain, squinting to see anything in the starless sky.

Below her, flanked by a pair of hulking,, hard-eyed soldiers from her noble father’s house guard, a rain-drenched messenger in Valas house livery clutched a sizeable package wrapped in oil-skin hides. The old hunting dog, blind in one eye, lacking a leg and horribly scared from the ear to the shoulder, barked furiously at the man but held its ground. Sniffing the package, the animal began to moan pitifully and tucked its tail between its legs, its bravado suddenly gone.

Nicola remembered the man; he was a trusted servant on her father’s military staff, not a soldier, but a professional book-keeper. She had not seen him since her father, Ivan, had left with many of the noble Valas house’s soldiers and servants more than 7 months ago. An excited smile came over Nicola’s young face. She quickly lit several candles on a tin candelabrum at her beside and ran excitedly into the hall. Daddy was finally home.

Maria Valas, lady of the noble house, had also heard her husband’s prized hound barking and whimpering. Like her youngest daughter, the pregnant young woman had gazed upon the messenger through the dark and the rain. Her emotions however, were more guarded. Ringing a bell, she summoned her servants so that she might be dressed to meet the man who worked for her husband and her.

In her room, 9-year old Lasha Valas slept soundly, unaware of the events unfolding within the manor house.

Mihail stepped hesitantly into a large sitting room and rushed immediately to the towering granite fireplace, shrugging out of his wet overcoat and tossing it dismissively at a waiting servant, soaking her in the process. Upon reaching the fire, the messenger warmed one then the other hand, cradling his rain-soaked burden against him closely with the opposite hand as he did.

Behind him, Nicola waited patiently, too well bred to address the messenger, as much as she might want to.

Finally, the lady of the house stepped lightly into the room. She was dressed in a long white gown, intricately embroidered with images of roses bushes, the thorns thereof curiously decorated with some semi-precious stone to make them glitter dangerously. Her hair was done in two plaits wound proficient about themselves courtesy of her serving ladies.

Turning, Mihail gasped quickly on seeing his master’s wife; he had always thought her beautiful and pregnancy left her glowing. Though he could tell her excitement by the rise and fall of her low-cut gown, she carried herself with dignity and addressed him directly, “What news of my lord?”

“It is best if we wait for your eldest daughter,” the messenger answered respectingly.

Nicola sulked, “Mother, make him tell us.” She didn’t want to wait for Losha; she wanted to know now.

Ignoring her, Maria sent one of her servants with an contemptuous gesture.

Nicola loved her sister. Everyone did. She was so graceful. Already, at the age of nine, everyone thought her beautiful. Everywhere she went, she was always dancing, practicing for the big day when she would be a real ballerina.. People all thought she was the best dancer they’d ever seen; they even told her so. Nicola wasn’t jealous; even though Nicola would never be able to dance, let alone walk quickly and she had the ‘jan dis’ since she was little, Losha looked after her little sister and she always played with her. Still, it wasn’t fair that she should have to wait for her older sister.

It wasn’t long for Nicola’s heroine to descend the stairs. Unlike her sister, Lasha had little respect for the dignities of her station. Fleet as a spirit, she ran at the messenger and threw herself into her arms, “Mihail! You’re finally back. Where’s daddy? Did you win? Did the soldiers bring glory to the house of Velas?” Suddenly flinching, the girl turned on the package, “What’s that?”

Smiling briefly, Mihail stepped away from the girl and addressed himself to Maria as she waited, “The three houses with all their soldiers arrived at Gurduk, heroically led in the center by your lord, the soldier-poet Andrei Prespur leading the left flank, Marius and Lucian of house Acaia leading the right wing and reserves respectively.”

Lasha was not patient enough for this tale, “But where’s daddy?” She was still eyeing the wet oilskin package suspiciously.

“Shhh, let him speak Lasha,” this from Maria as she maneuvered her bulging belly into a reclining sofa to hear the messenger’s tale.

“The enemy soldiers were smart and they were ready for us. They let us into the streets of the city without resistance, but once there attacked with hit and run tactics from second-story windows and concealed alleyways.” He hesitated and began unwrapping his package. "Your husband and father caught sight of the enemy king Auric himself, and as I watched, he became like a furious vengeful spirit. He seemed to flow from one enemy to another like a glorious scythe, graceful and deadly. He cut a line to the enemy king, his retainers struggling after him. He finally caught up to Auric in a plaza. It was only then that we realized the trap the enemy had set for us. Barricades suddenly fell into place, hastily constructed affairs of wood and pitch, potent only for their prestigious size and weight. Suddenly the pitch was on fire and our lord and his men were behind enemy lines, hidden by smoke and wreathed in fire. Outnumbered and out of position, with no where to run, Lord Ivan was a force of honor and glory. Peering through the fires, we could see that all his retainers had fallen. All about him lie his enemy, inglorious in defeat, but still they came at him. Finally, while fighting scores of the enemy, he was slain by a javelin thrown from a rooftop.” Simultaneous gasps from the three women, “Looking up we saw the Illian god-king gloating over the dishonorable murder. I’m so sorry.”

“When the fires died down; the remaining Prespur and Valas forces converged upon the God king, this time led by Lucian Acacia and his son Marius. With so few of the enemy remaining and their forces surrounded the enemy quickly succumbed to our combined might.” Mihail paused, and slowly unwrapped the package. Within lie the crimson cloak Lord Ivan wore into to combat, the symbol of his command. Though obviously freshly washed, deep reddish brown stains infused it. “He was wearing this,” he turned to Lasha, “As Lord Ivan had no sons and you are the oldest of his children, this is yours now. House Valas is yours now.”



turns 0-49:

Spoiler :

I decide to make immediate use of the fruit of Yggdresil and head inland to a position between it and the gems. My thinking here is that the fruit doesn’t need farming whereas the corn does. We can make immediate use of the fruit of Yggdresil to get more food then the corn and an additional two hammers that the corn doesn’t provide. People say the coastal site has more commerce, and they are probably right, but the early production of this site was nice also.

Early huts pop money for the fledgling Calabim nation.

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Our scout, named Luenta, heads south and pops a hut for fishing. Suddenly that coastal site is starting to look at lot more attractive.

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Luenta travels south and east and finally comes to a giant spider which is blocking her path. Luckily she ends her turn atop a forested hill on the opposite side of a river. I push ‘end turn’ and wait for the inevitable, but it doesn’t come; the spider moves easterly. I decide to not push my luck; Luenta turns back west.

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Our warrior, named Alexis, had been guarding a hut near the capital to allow the cultural borders to pop it, but with the imminent approach of a dwarven scout, those plans go to the dogs and he moves onto the tile. We are lucky and get ‘anciant chants’.

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Soon afterwards, we finish our first research project, agriculture. With anciant chants already provided, we are almost being begged to research education. I comply.

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We have used our early production from the forested start and the fruit of Yggdresil to build up a small army of warriors to attack Auric Ulvin. My intention had been to break out of the valley we are in and make contact with other civilizations. You’ll see how that turned out in a second.
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Auric's scout leaves the city and heads to the forested hill. He'll be really hard to kill now, you know, if i wasn't attacking his city instead...

Andrei, the discoverer of ancient chants and hut gold attacks, and loses (reducing the enemy warrior to 0.9 health).

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Our second warrior, Ivan, attacks, and also loses (but reduces his enemy to 1.1 health).

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Now the odds are with the Calabim, Lucian attacks… and wins.

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Its Marius’s turn, and he too wins.

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Auric is no more.


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Here’s a look at our lands.

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Attachments

I hate to double post- let alone triple post, but i thought it was maybe worth discussing a few factors that are influencing our early play.

Q
First, why did so many dismiss an inland city site near the fruit of yggdresil (spelling?) as a capital site?

I choose to settle near it so i could get immediate food and hammers without waiting for a worker and the agriculture tech.

Q
Secondly, what do you think the role of agriculture vs. anciant cants (or is it chants?) was in your early play? Some people choose to tech mysticism right away, even at the cost of farms and food for the elder council; are early beakers really that important?

I choose agriculture but i have a unique case- the calabim can't build an elder council. Maybe i should be considering writing for the same reason most considered mysticism.

Q
The role of fire mana, the burning of jungle vs. sanitation and slowly chopping through the jungle.
Researching knowlegde of the aether and elementalism is very expensive, but KoE by itself isn't so expensive. People with starting fire mana from their palace had a small (large?) advantage with this map.
Some are obviously going to burn down the jungle? What about the rest of us? Burn it or chop it?

Personally, i think i'll go sanitation for the extra farm output and because i want to find copper anyway so i'll be teching that way. I don't forsee heading for knowledge of the aether right away.

Q
Any other thoughts, comparaisons you might like to make to encourage discussion?
 
@Immaculate:

Spoiler :

1. You're right about the immediate yield the Yggdrasil gives. But from my view the Yggdrasil was about the only tile one could have used properly down there for a long while - it's all choked in djungle. My plan was laid out as soon as I saw the land - I really think settling the capital at the coast was the strongest move because of the commerce potential early on.

2. Ancient Chants or Agriculture ? The answer for me is - both. As I need Mysticism for my religious path I therefore need Ancient Chants too. Starting with Ancient Chants is a big plus because you can get Mysticism and God King so much earlier, especially on a map where expansion is limited. Yet I wanted Agriculture first because of the growth - it's better growing before changing the farms to cottages. Early commerce for me is crucial in FfH as the starting techs are really expensive and commerce hard to generate. Things kick off with cottages available really, so the faster you can get there the better. Commerce is the bottleneck in FfH, so getting your economy rolling is a major key to success.

3. I agree that starting with a Fire Mana from the Palace is a huge advantage on this map. It makes the magic approach much more attractive. But even so - I want Fire Mana not only for the djungle clearing, but also for my warfare. Therefore it's natural to aim for it. I'll get Sanitation later of course - but that's not a high priority.

4. I think it's interesting almost everyone has chosen the same spot for the capital. As there are different approaches to the game already planned it will be very interesting to see the outcome of the game. I'm especially interested how all the players will do who not go for early rushing - after all the area we are in can only hold 4 cities maximum.
 
Spoiler :
Q
First, why did so many dismiss an inland city site near the fruit of yggdresil (spelling?) as a capital site?

I considered it, but I think I would have ended up too much behind on commerce/tech down there. That spot is going to be an amazing city...eventually. The top of the vallet seemed better for getting started.

Q
Secondly, what do you think the role of agriculture vs. anciant cants (or is it chants?) was in your early play? Some people choose to tech mysticism right away, even at the cost of farms and food for the elder council; are early beakers really that important?

My first goal was Education, for both the Cottages and civics. Farm first then Cottage over later was my plan. I don't think you need Mysticism right away, but you do need some kind of science early.

Q
The role of fire mana, the burning of jungle vs. sanitation and slowly chopping through the jungle.
Researching knowlegde of the aether and elementalism is very expensive, but KoE by itself isn't so expensive. People with starting fire mana from their palace had a small (large?) advantage with this map.
Some are obviously going to burn down the jungle? What about the rest of us? Burn it or chop it?

It depends on your strategy. I was already heading down to Bronze working, so sanitation isn't so bad.

Q
Any other thoughts, comparaisons you might like to make to encourage discussion?

I too am interested in how the peaceful goal games turn out. Our area is quite crowded. I hope the Civs that have more space to expand don't pull too far ahead of everyone.
 
Next tale of Tebryn Arbandi and his little nation. Turns 50-101. Expect lot of boredom. And sorry for my english.:king:

Spoiler :
He felt nervous and hesitated for a while. Is it right? Should he do it? What about consequences?
Finally he decide. A brief aspiration and he knocked on doors. „Come in, Peter. I was waiting for you.“ A bit dazzled he entered small room full of smoke.
„Ehm… hello?“
„Greetings , Peter, please take a seat.“
„Thank you. But I am not Peter, I am Vitek.“
„Oh… that was just test. Now what do you want to now, young lady.“
„Please, wise fortune-teller, tell me what will happen in ugly Tebryn’s kingdom. And by the way I am not a lady.“
„Sorry darling, it looked so in my crystal ball. It’s destiny of the puny empire you seek then? Very well, let me see…
Yes, I see very small kingdom indeed. Soem even forget it exist.
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Their close future looks quite boring though. They’ll be doing almost nothing in the close future.
I forsee they’ll meet new friend (for now, great enemy in future.)
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To figur thein enemy they will invent scythe. They‘ll learn to use it on crops instead of hrade of enemy. Later on Education will be invented in their country to spread and tax their villages. (Here is crystal ball a bit cloudy.)
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In late time disaster will strike their country. Goblins rampaging their homeland are not good, together with Golden age of their neigbor it’s very bad. Somehow Auric’s people, looking at sign of Mulcarn on heaven, are working much more hardly than ever). Tebryn of Sheim immediately ordered his people to walk with head held high.
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Some says this kingdom will be forgotten, though some hasn’t even noticed it.
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That’s all my dear lady, Peter. Come again for more later.“
Vitek, leaving doors promised to himself he will never return again. He want more interesting tales next time.


Ok, the pictures were meant to be larger. Sorry, my bad.
 

Attachments

The Tale of Sabathiel - ch. II

Spoiler :

Vengard looked into the small passage leading into the inner courtyard. He had been summoned to his Lord, and he knew it would be a hard task - as always. Any task given by his lord, even speaking to him was a thing that demanded everything you had to give. To serve Sabathiel, the angel of Junil, sure was no easy task. He sighed and shrugged his shoulders, so as to dismiss all the cares and prepared to enter his lords room.

Sabathiel was sitting on the floor, with closed eyes. Yet Vengard knew he had not to speak a word, because the angel already knew what he was going to say. He opened his lips, but before one syllable had left it Sabathiel opened his eyes - a clear profound blue like the lances of starlight blended into the evening sky, hard to endure for any mortal - and spoke: "Vengard, you have done well to come here. For I have a task for you. See, reports have reached me that not all is well in the society of the Bannor. We are still healing and rebuilding from the Age of Ice, but we are not yet ready for our world at full."

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"Knoweth that the little we have is in danger every day, even as we speak. The world is full of peril, and if we are not watchful, we will not endure. My power is almost spent, and the little I have left I will need for days to come. All will need it that look to me as their lord and chieftain. I have averted the coming of Orthus into our land, but this was painful - and it cost another little part of my precius strength again."

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"Therefore I entrust you with the watchkeeping on our borders. You have to do everything you can to keep evil from our land. You are young and have not seen all the perils of the world yet, so I will send you to the Council. Our wisest men and women are gathered there, and their lore will ease your task."

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"I have prepared an order that our people shall unite as one behind the powers of law, to serve Junil as they may. It is the only protection we have right now - faith to myself."

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"But we shall need more than that in the days to come. Our lands are wild, unfertile, and have little love for our people. It is with magic arts that they may be to tame - search with Council for the secrets that are hidden in nature."

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"Come back to me if you know..."

Vengard bowed low and left. It was frustrating, as always. And now he, a little soldier of the Bannor, was entrusted with the task of saving those people. It was hopeless. Yet something held him to his task, and finally...

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OOC stuff:

Commerce setup of city 1

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Commerce setup of city 2

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Future city spot

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Demographics

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You can clearly see I'm sacrificing production for commerce here, but I want to speed up research at all cost. A settler is in production now (ETA 25 turns), and the next tech will be Philosophy (22 turns) to go forward on the religious path. I will tackle Elementalism when my cottages mature - in about 25-30 turns...So far I'm pleased with my progress.

Imhotep
 
Spoiler :
As we begin, the Hippus are near the bottom of the score chart.

The plan remains the same, tech to Bronze Working for more usable land, Warrior rush someone (probably Auric because of proximity).

As far as build orders, all I built was warriors and another worker this entire section. My workers Cottage everything they can and road as needed. Bronze working soon should bring added prosperity.

According to Gibbon, we are 7th in Power on 102. I still haven't began assembly-lining Warriors. Auric is near the top though...interesting.
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On Turn 102 our people spot a Lanun Scout across the mountains to the west.
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On turn 104, Conrond Mor is founded in the forests by the magical Fruits of Yggdrasil, and begins and continues production of Warriors for the rest of this turn set. (Note: I made a mistake and did not switch to City States right here. I ended up sliding between 70 and 90 research until I realized I forgot to switch on turn 151. Hopefully this didn't cost me too much...)
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On turn 113, the Barbarian king Orthus enters the lands, somewhere to our west in presumably Lanun lands.
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On turn 116, I was informed one of our ambassadors apparently said some unkind words about a certain leaders beard...
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On 118, parts of our glorious capital city have degenerated into overpopulated urban slums. We discover Mining.
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We finish our route between cities though, the newly imported magical fruits from Conrond Mor are a cultural success. There restorative properties are well praised and become a staple of the Hippus diet, alongside the longtime local favorite, corn.

Our people hear legends of Giants walking among men. Either these rumors are just that, rumouts, or these are truly strange times.
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The people of Conrond Mor develop an independent streak, and seek to have more say in their governing. The palace relinquishes its total control and turns the nation into a confederation of City States. After years of inefficiency, commerce flourishes.
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Heres some pictures from the turn I ended on. I made it to 151 without noticing what turn it was and then decided I needed "one more turn" and I'd stop.

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We've climbed all the way to the top of the score chart in this 50 turns. Bronze Working comes very soon. I have quite a few Warriors in Conrond Mor too...the drums of battle shall sound for the first time soon...

I'm debating what tech is next though...Currency is still priority #1, but is worthless without the economy for support. Sanitation would greatly help with my land quality, and unlocks Gems. I still don't have Mysticism, and the longer I wait the larger the opportunity cost there...decision making time!

 

Attachments

@Immaculate (and others interested!)

-About starting near the yggdresil, I did not even consider it to tell you the truth. I like to settle on the first turn and so I was looking for the best spot with that in mind. I saw the two food bonuses, the two hills, the gems, and the mana node, and I was sold. I do think though that that site by the yggdresil will be a production powerhouse down the line, heck it already outproduces my capital currently!

-I decided that I wanted to get a Great Sage as early as possible so I went went Mysticism first. Then in a move I'm still not sure about I went for Knowledge of Ether straight away. I figured that since there was so much jungle anyway that I'd get a way to clear it (Adepts with Fire Magic) around the same time that I had the techs to work it (Agriculture/Education), and it worked out that way. I don't know if that route was optimal, but it seemed best at the time.

-As for starting with Fire Mana, I'm certainly glad I did, though it will be interesting to see how it all plays out with those that didn't. Already by around turn 200 I am able to start improving my lands in earnest, which depending on how long it takes others to get to that point may be a huge advantage.

-I did not choose an early rush as I want to have vassals for access to their mana, though I am hoping for a 4th city in the southern valley. Depending on how large my southern neighbors get I may take a capital or two and leave them hopefully to survive until I learn Feudalism. I find it very interesting that none of them have made moves to visibly expand, though my vision is limited.

Here is a breakdown of what my short term goals have been. In the future I will put these with my updates!


In the early stages of the game I had the following on my mind:

-The Tech Path was roughly set to Mysticism/KoE/Education/Agriculture/-->Overlords/-->Bronze Working

-Expand to three cities so as to be able to build the Great Library. You need three libraries before it can be built, and it's bonuses are very much in line with the Beaker Focus that the Amurites will be aiming for.

-Develop the land. This meant burning down the jungle and researching Agriculture/Education/-->Bronze Working.

-Tech the ability to commission tier three fighters. This is done through religion and Bronze Working.

-Found Octopus Overlords. For practicalities sake both the Amurites and the Overlords UU's lie under the same tech, Arcane Lore, so it made sense to be able to get them both. From a IC standpoint, Dain is ambitious and constantly seeking knowledge, so when his mystics told him of a great yet twisted power under the sea, he couldn't help but learn more. He has now made it his quest to free the God Danalin from the influence of Hastur. He feels that building the Tower of Mastery will give him the necessary power he'll need to complete such a task.

-Produce a Great Sage to build an Academy. This will greatly increase the beaker output in the capital and give me an edge in research.
 
@Immac - I always look at the early Mysticism, not for the extra beakers but for the early Great People points, employ a scientist and get an Academy up nice and early.

I'm going to be bee-lining for Bronze Working, so it may be easier for me to get Sanitation to clear the jungle rather than fire.

Is anyone planning on founding a religion?
 
Spoiler :
This session begins with the discovery of Bronze Working. Workers across the nation begin turning acres of unused forest into more habitable small villages. The people of Hippus demand a fair and just system of laws to be created and set in stone (literally). Our scholars begin the process of creating a consistent system of laws the people demand.
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Meanwhile the city of Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel are unhappy because the aging infrastructure of the city cannot support her growing urban populace. Astrologers predict a coming time of peace and happiness, but fortunately the astrologers don't lead the army...:mischief:
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The creation of Loki suggests that we can add Balseraphs to our list of known civs in this game. Only 2 remain mysteries.
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Conrond Mor is developing it's own unique culture from Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel. An Obelisk is constructed, and the people apparently desire some sort of spiritualism, though this matter is best left out of state control for now. They are allowed to construct their useless monolith.

Supporting the massive mercenary army created in recent years has emptied the treasury by this point. The men and women of battle itch for war, and our confederacy needs to expand in order to guarantee future prosperity. The Illians have never hidden their contempt for our people, and thus we must dispose of their leader to allow the people of Garduk to flourish under our rule.

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The battle was a lightning fast affair. Our troops marched straight in and suffered heavy losses, but superior skill in battle and overwhelming numbers helped us take the heavily defended city.

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Goblins were once again dumping waste in our lands, but yet again we were able to magically heal the damage and chase off the foul beasts. Research was back to full again following the Battle of Garduk.

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Our people heard about a living Golem created by the tiny tinkerers, the Luchirp.

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We eventually developed a legal system that was just. Our people were becoming more and more urban-oriented, and the bartering system of trade was showing signs of weakness. Our attentions turned to standardizing trade amongst all Hippus citizens similarly to our standardization of all Hippus laws.

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Our people our having increased trade relations with the Lanun. The occasional mountaineer scales the great range between our nations (small paths run along the coast, but are dangerous) They brings forth news from the west. Their leader, Hannah of the Irin, offers us a gesture of friendliness and allows Right of Passage for all Hippus in her lands, and we grant the same in return. Masters of cartography, the Lanun help us learn more about the world at large, and the vast spaces of land to the west.

The people of Garduk have a wealth of wild animals about that would be useful if they could be bred to be domesticated. Efforts to breed the perfect stock of these "Pig" and "Sheep" for human use were emphasized and quickly our goals were met. Our scholars still haven't found something that could regulate trade, but refocused their energies to this difficult problem.

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A orcish settlement in the unclaimed southern valley is threatening the livelihood of civilized nations. As a matter of national security, the army (veterans of the Battle of Garduk) is dispatched to deal with the situation.

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A single warrior was lost and the encampment was destroyed.

The people of Conrond Mor, after a string of seemingly random disasters, claims to have found the source of the chaotic acts, a witch! As part of the hands off policy of the federal to local government, the witch is prosecuted and killed for breaking the laws of the confederacy (Section 40, Article the 12th, "Witchcraft with intent for mayhem" clause) She was the first to be hanged in the town square for breaking the newly minted code of laws, and a courthouse was constructed in the city so that further prosecutions could proceed without royal decree.

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Here's a look at the confederacy on turn 203:
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Attachments

@ Immaculate
Q
First, why did so many dismiss an inland city site near the fruit of yggdresil (spelling?) as a capital site?

The key factor for me was that the coastal site had 4 improvable 'good' (resurce or river) tiles before bronze working / jungle clearance. With agriculture = 3 farms and with Education 1 farm and 3 cottages.

Basically the Lemons (struggle to write Yddgrasil) city might be better in the first 50 turns but by turn 100-150 the Coastal capital will have overtaken it. You should compare peoples saves at turn 150 to see the difference between the two.
Q
Some people choose to tech mysticism right away, even at the cost of farms and food for the elder council; are early beakers really that important?
Well if you start with Ancient Chants then I think Mysticism is the default first tech choice. One tech gives you God King, which is akin to Bureacracy in normal Civ, + an elder council gives you the early academy and 2 :science: which you need because research takes a long time..


Q
The role of fire mana, the burning of jungle vs. sanitation and slowly chopping through the jungle. People with starting fire mana from their palace had a small (large?) advantage with this map.

Definitely. For me beelining Ashen Veil I felt it was a real boost getting very early access to the Gems without having to really deviate from my tech path.

Personally, i think i'll go sanitation for the extra farm output and because i want to find copper anyway so i'll be teching that way. I don't forsee heading for knowledge of the aether right away.

I had originally planned to do the same path for the reaons you mention until I remembered that I had fire mana which just reinforces that it was a real plus on this map.

Q
Any other thoughts, comparaisons you might like to make to encourage discussion?

I would be interested in people's views of whether FFH really encourages / compels a cottage economy due to the facts
1. that they mature just as fast as in normal civ.
2. A SE doesn't really 'work' because you cant get sages as easily (elder council = 1 scientist assigned only)
3. The extra tech paths mean (vertical depth) mean you cant really just light bulb and trade for backfill techs as you could in normal civ so have to research things yourself so have to get towns up early?

This isn't a crtiicsm of FFh but one of its plusses I feel as you do have to manage an empire not just manage a team of Geeks!
 
I would be interested in people's views of whether FFH really encourages / compels a cottage economy due to the facts
1. that they mature just as fast as in normal civ.
2. A SE doesn't really 'work' because you cant get sages as easily (elder council = 1 scientist assigned only)
3. The extra tech paths mean (vertical depth) mean you cant really just light bulb and trade for backfill techs as you could in normal civ so have to research things yourself so have to get towns up early?

This isn't a crtiicsm of FFh but one of its plusses I feel as you do have to manage an empire not just manage a team of Geeks!

Personally, one of the problems i have with FFH (and there are relatively few) is the bulbing order. It seems that the bulbing order for sages is based mostly on alphabetical occurence of the techs on the list.
Zechnophone suggested (on the FFH boards about a month ago) to make sorcery come before alteration, divination, elementalism and necromancy to make starting palace mana more meaningful (amongst other reasons) and it would also make sage bulbing more powerful. Kael et al, as far as i know, never responded to that idea, but i really liked it then and i really like it every time i end up building an academy or settling a scientist.

But yes, cottages seem to be the way to go (except sidar apparently but i've never played them).

i.
 
Next part of Tebryn’s story. Turns 100-150. Quite brief, because not too much had happend.

Spoiler :
It was quiet time for not-so-mighty empire of Sheim. They are making slow but steady progress. Probléme with space in their city made them to send big group of people to found another one. They picked location not far from big tree of unknown origin. Later the industrious citizen have built Obelisk for gods to spread fame of the city and place for their elders to sit and discuss. Some says it’s called philosophy but they need some time to discuss it further (20 turns to Philosophy.)
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Some people in kingdom were complaining about warrior unit that is well known for torturing prisoners.
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When they were being executed for their whims, they complained even more.
On the other side this showed how Dariny some people are and thus lot of warriors was trained to keep them at bay.
Across the country spread tales that once almost barren world is more and more populated with various creatures. The tales already goes around about fierce princess of pirates, Hannah the Irin, king of barbarians Orthus and his big sword, three hill giants allied with people or big golem with his own mind.
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Citizens of this glourious empire strive for knowledge and soon they learned to control magical energies of universe and started with building of their first mage guild.
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Otherwise the time was really quiet. Galveholm people were taught to farm and improve countryside and went there to till the soil and build houses for villagers.
At the end of this brief period the realm looked like that.
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Knowledge of magic also made people aware how they fare in comparsion with other kingdoms.
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And finally the Civics screen I somehow missed so far. As you can see Tebryn is ruling like God King, with new system of Apprenticeship and with strong feeling towards nationhood amongst his people.
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It seems I haven't shared my hut results, so it's time to correct it. I was absolutely not so lucky as others here.:cry: I've got 3x gold and one useless map.:thumbsdown: If there is anything you need to know feel free to ask.
 

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*First off, just like to announce that all my precious turn logs are updated so that you can actually see my screen shots!!!*

I have decided, belatedly, on a RP theme and am settling into that during this report.

Spoiler :

In Udenarat, Holy City of the Overlords: The Book burns beneath his hands, willing him to cast it aside. He is an outsider here, and nowhere does he feel that more than when at Temple. Valledia's infatuation with the Overlords has left him no choice, and though the taint of insanity is almost palpable as he reads through the sacred cannon, he plods onward. Through the half truths he is beginning to recognize a pattern, a pattern that gives him hope...

Not exactly rushing, Valledia nears the Temple with anticipation. She is well aware of Dain's resistance to the Overlords, and she is far from fooled by his unexpected visit. He has not openly contested the Faith, but with his visible doubts evident to herself, if not others as so blessedly insightful, any opportunity to highlight its success is exhilarating. Indeed, this news is certainly a testament to the religions success.

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Back in Cevedes: The throne room was about as cozy as a dungeon. Dain felt himself completely uncut for such formalities, but with word of a royal visitor in town protocol demanded it. He had to admit he was curious, he had received word that the visitor was barely...BOOM, the doors to the throne room flew open and in walked the wildest man he had ever seen. Startled guards lifted up their weapons, but Dain quickly intervened. Sensing that this was not the type to bow, Dain strode to meet the man half way. He quickly discovered, among other things, that the man smelled as bad as he looked. He introduced himself before Dain could get in a word:

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The meeting with the Doviello was quick and uncomfortable. Peace was declared and as a show of friendship the Doviello hunter had his wild game brought up to the palace and prepared for a feast. It was interesting eating as the foods from across the eastern range were quite different from the diet here at home.
After the meal and the closing celebrations, in which more gifts were exchanged, Dain went to speak with Valledia. Approaching her office he noticed her desk was covered with paperwork and logs, but all neatly organized in piles, as was her way. Upon entering he received a flat smile, and then an invitation to sit. "Things are going according to plan" she says as she hands over a bound report, "the southern settlement has been established".

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"Though their Duke does say there is some dissension among the populace", another report, "I do not think it will be a problem".

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Of course the newly appointed Duke of Nimarail wouldn't dream of crossing Valledia, but still having territory now so close to Illian lands meant that more attention would have to put into the military. Fortunately the Sages at the Academy and throughout the Kingdom had made a breakthrough; the ability to work bronze, cut down trees, and train advanced fighters was now known.

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"So the rumors were true!" Dain thinks as he bangs his fist into his palm. It appears that Kylorins' old student, Perpentach, had indeed found his freedom, but this did not exactly match with what he saw waiting in the next room. Twisted and hopping from foot to foot, the creature that Perpentach had sent was a crazed figure. Surely the mighty Perpentach would send something more Representative on diplomatic business? Much more would have to be determined before a concrete foreign policy could be established, and this was too unsettling a visit to pursue it further at the moment.

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As if ashamed by the news he was bearing, the messenger hesitated before knocking on Dains door. Not only was it the middle of the night, but things had gotten out of control as well, out of control in a way that was impossible with such an experienced staff! But these were not normal visitors, chaos seemed to spark from their shoe tops with every step they took, he'd swear on it! :KNOCK KNOCK: "Lord Dain, the Balserelphs Demand an audience, and I'm afraid there is nothing I could do to dissuade them". Sitting up in his bed, he does seem to note a hint of change in the air. But no, he would sleep. Let them have a taste of Valledia, she'd set them right and send them away limping! There would be no dealing with Perpentach.

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Valledia wanted to reorganize the government, to give more autonomy to the other settlements and ease the burden on the central treasury for their maintenance. When she was this convinced about something, this was little stopping her. With determination seeping from her pours, she marched into Dains study and laid out the plans for the coming reformation.

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The Academy was abuzz with the new findings, the Silver Tears had moved into prominence in the heavens! Word was rushed throughout the new Alliance, and festivities like the world had yet to see commenced. Amuritia had entered a Golden Age!

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Record keeping had been so damned difficult that there were scarce any traces of past histories outside of what the Palace managed to maintain. This was all going to change now, and the chief sage and the Academy was beaming with pride! Soon all the land would be able to read and write, and the sciences would flourish as a result.

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Part of the reformation had been the Establishment of an diplomatic team to coordinate all foreign affairs for all the new City States, though Dain was still uncomfortable with it. Eyriq, Head of the new State Department, approached with an obvious confidence. "There is potential in this one", Dain found himself thinking. "My Lord", Eyriq addressed Dain, "Our Beloved Sister in the Faith, Hanna the Irin, has sent an envoy asking for the exchange of Maps. As you have requested continued caution with her, the exchange was denied, though our best was done to make the stay otherwise quite enjoyable for them". "Very good Eyriq, is there more"? "Yes actually, shortly after this visit the Balseraphs came visiting, seeking for the same. They were given a curt response and sent on their way". "They are a persistent bunch, Eyriq, stay on your toes". "Yes my Lord. Of course. They were however not the last to visit. Charadon has, I guess in line with his wild ways, made a direct threat against our people if we do not give him our maps straight up. As our sources indicate that they are a serious power to be respected, we gave it careful thought. Their lands are far enough away and our natural defenses so compelling that the threat was rejected and they were sent packing. It should be noted though that they are not a small people, and consideration should be made for future dealings with them". "So be it, Eyriq".

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"This is a great day, is it not Valledia"? Looking coldly at him, she ignores the question and goes straight to the point. "The Alliance is growing, Dain, growing quite nicely".

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"Not to mention we have made a breakthrough, in our, umm, experiments", she says while looking over the top of her tea cup. Cringing inside, with the hairs standing up on his neck, Dain simply nods.

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"My lord, he is Amazing"! Dain could not disagree, the work this one man had been able to do would have taken have taken the entire scholarly profession years to accomplish.

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Looking over the report, it became apparent now why the Illians had been so quite. They had been engaged in a project of such magnitude that Dain could only sit back and marvel! If the properties of this endeavor were correct then Auric Aulvin had just constructed himself a palace grand enough for his ego.

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She lays in bed, thinking as usual and unable to sleep. The diplomatic front has been quite in regards to their nearest neighbors, but those to the east, beyond the mountains, continued to beg for greater relations. What did it all mean?

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OOC: Here is a veiw of the southern valley, with a newly minted Dwarven settlement by my pigs. As I am just starting to get into military mode, and I want vassels, I will let all these nations expand a bit more before I begin hostilities. I have hit most of my main markers tech wise, and am now going to build the great library, work on Necro, and eventually move towards Arcane Lore. Also available is my city screens and the Info Screen. Enjoy! (The IC stuff got long, but it was fun).

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I'm excited, because all the games are starting to get interesting.

My 5th turnset included...

Spoiler :


Starting off these turns was the founding of Radonnor, by an ancient holy site. An monument was to be constructed near the mystical tomb.
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Conrond Mor finished the construction of the nation's first Courthouse. A Brewery began construction in order to process the local fruits into a delicious drink for the people to enjoy. A similar courthouse was also constructed to keep order in the city of Garduk, where cultural differences still led to occasional violence.

The people of Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel discovered rare edible mushrooms deep within the jungles to their south. Similarly, the people of Garduk used their skills at domestication to tame wild prairie dogs, and the sale of these creatures as pets became a fashionable new trend.
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A scout from the far north and east met with the people of Hippus. This new "civilization" was a savage, fiercely territorial bunch, but they seemed powerful in war, and our people respect that. These wolfmen could prove to be powerful allies or bloody enemies on the field of battle.
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Finally, a breakthrough! Our palace begins minting a national currency of gold coins. Around the same time, a group of citizenry from Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel found what they call "The Guild of the Nine". This group is essentially powerful mercenaries for hire. This signifies a shift towards privatization of the nations army. Laissez-faire capitalism has become our cultural foundation, and our success has driven our nation to become the envy of the world.
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Two mints are built, one in the capitol and one in Garduk.
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Our people are paid a visit, again from the east, from an emmisary of the (presumably insane) Perpentach. These people of revelry and insanity are scary to our rationalistic people, and our people can now see that extreme personal freedoms can lead to an anarchistic state.
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Our more spiritual peoples, mostly from Radannor and Conrond Mor, have theorized that perhaps there is more to this world than the material. Mysticism as a cultural value is all fine a dandy, but doesn't easily cohere with the Hippus economic state. The Mystics form elder councils and ponder this dualism; how are these two unrelated values reconciled?
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The Guild of the Nine offers the services of some of it's elite, but unfortunately the treasury is too low to pay their fees and the time is not yet right for war.
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On the plains south of Garduk, the city of Feiss Mabdon is founded. They too seem to be more spiritually bent, like their neighbors to the north, and construct an Obelisk.
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Our neighbor to the east, Ethne of the Elohim, pleads for our help after she is invaded by the insane Balseraphs. She could not afford our support.
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The Doveillo and Balseraph empires agree to Open Borders with our people, which is more a sign of good faith than anything due to proximity to our lands, and Loki is spotted wandering our lands and raising hell. Perpentach must not push our hospitality too far...

Finally, our scholars from Conrond Mor have a revelation. A new religion has sprang up that simply speaks to our people. Kilmorph is the goddess of the earth and her teachings emphasize hard work and earning an honest wage. Finally our peoples mysticism could be aligned with their work and trade.
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The people of Conrond Mor quickly spread the religion to Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel and it was announced that Runes of Kilmorph would be the confederacy-nation's official religion.


Spoiler :

Well that worked out well, I won the races to both the things I wanted to. Next on the tech-list in Trade, so we can then trade with other nations for our remaining early techs. The wonderful thing about the Got9 is that I can turn off my research and have an instant army. Once I get what I need for techs, I can turn my research off or down and conquer the continent. Without using hammers in my cities on troops. At all. I can just build a juggernaut gold economy and steamroll everyone. Well, thats the plan anyhow.
 

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Continuing along here...

Spoiler :

We are 7th most cultural in the world.
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Temples to Kilmorph are being build wherever possible.
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Money Changers where not yet possible.
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Our trade partner the Lanun adopt our religion.
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Mercenaries seek work outside the capitol.
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Garduk founds an Elder Council.

Horses are incorporated in the national army, similar to the already existing mounted mercenaries force.
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Perpentach plots to have us join him against Ethne the White. We decline.

This is a fast moving time for technological advances.
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The Balseraphs found and convert to the cult-like Ashen Veil. These people are crazier than I thought...

Trade has become a major industry among our people.
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The Balseraph people may be insane, but I think this calender thing they've worked out may just be useful...they seek our knowledge of the horse. In return they teach us about the passing of the seasons, pay us, and reveal their map of the known world. Across the seas lie the Grigori people, to the far east lie the Balseraphs themselves, and to their north is the abode of the Doveillo wolfmen.
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Once again Ethne pleads for our assistance against the Balseraph, but trade trumps good will and nothing is free.

Our people of Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel begin fishing in the oceans for food.
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Our city is now the home to an international athletic event. Our reputation amongst other nations is increased.
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Perpentach has finally found an ally in his crusade against Ethne, Charadon. He declares war on her and she quickly responds by casting a powerful repelling spell to protect herself. This shall make our eventual invasion of Elohim lands that much easier.
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Charadon responds by calling forth the forces of the north, summoning a host of wolves to his aid. Our people discover the fine art of masonry.
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Charadon foolishly demands the secrets of Mysticism, but the Hippus people cannot be intimidated by petty threats. What a fool! He turns around and asks for our aid against the Elohim.

The people of Radonnor have a feast in my honor.

Our people discover the means to remove jungle, and a huge project to revitalize the homeland is planned and set into motion.
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Our people are gloriously the most advanced in the world.
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Spoiler :
At turn 50, we have Crafting in 12 and a warrior in 11. Braduk grows from size 3 to 4 in 5 turns so I may switch to a settler then. Research to continue towards Bronze Working.

And we're off...

I don't make it to the most advanced list funnily enough.

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After I grow to 4, my warrior is only 3 turns, so let it finish before settler. I actually end up growing to 5 before settler.

Mining replaces Crafting.

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I then press enter a few times...

Renegade Hill founded.

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The 60 turns of Bronze Working is fairly scary but Ancient Chants/Mysticism or Education would be much the same so BW it is.

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And 100 turns have passed.

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Things are going well. I should have BW complete next 50 and Rantine started and then the orcs can go playing.

 

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I'll now have a look at the 100 turn games now. Probably after we're all through 150, I might do a quick summary of the games and their differences/similarities if there is any interest!

Plenty from this end. :D
 
Spoiler :


Well, the plan is beginning to come together.

Perpentach asks for assistance with the Elohim, and Charadon demands Mysticism yet again.

Our people learn Hunting and begin unlocking the secrets of Mathematics.

Acheron the red dragon claims a barbarian city as his own.
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Plague strikes Feiss Mabdon and the city is quarantined.
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Mathematics prove rather simple for our people to grasp. Thus, we shall tax them a percentage of their income! Our treasuries shall overflow!
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Gambling becomes a nationwide past time. Gambling Houses begin construction across multiple cities, often within or next to Temples to Kilmorph or Marketplaces.

World politics take an eerie toll on the once peaceful peoples of the Elohim. Not only do they demand our assistance in their war, Ethne has fully embraced the dark cult of the Ashen Veil. The Hippus people continue their separation from this conflict, even as the Doveillo people demand our assistance from the other side of the war.
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Perpentach is becoming more and more blatant in his contempt for our people. He makes peace with the Elohim (why not? has he not already won in her conversion to his mythos?) He demands Bronze Working and we send his emissary back empty handed.

Charadon take a couple of Ethne's northern cities.

Somewhere, Gibbon has founded his Council of Esus. Garrim Gyr and Charadon both convert to Runes of Kilmorph. Perhaps the Balseraph-Doveillo alliance is showing strain?

National taxation begins across the confederacy. The tax itself is small, but even a small percentage of the sheer volume of commerce flowing through the nation sends the treasury in need of a few additional wings.
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Lanun tech trade: philosophy, map, gold for animal husbandry, code of laws.

For the first time, I ponder to myself if we will be able to have military supremacy if we end up in a war with Perpentach...
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Ethne sues for peace with Charadon after he founds the Fellowship of Leaves in one of his cities. Our mercenaries, no longer needed in the many wars around the world, flock home to Altheriol-ta-Mealthiel, where they are immediately hired into the national army. Research funds are temporarily reduced in order to support the significant initial investment.
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Here's the nation on turn 350:

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