Can AI see subs?

Can the AI see your submarines?

It seems when ever I use a submarine the AI goes right for it and destroys it. Am I just imagining things?

Can the AI see your submarines?

It seems when ever I use a submarine the AI goes right for it and destroys it. Am I just imagining things?

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Honestly, I have not tested that, nor really even wondered, since I so rarely build a submarine.

But I can tell you this for sure. The AI civs instantly "know" of your major surface ships when they come within 12 squares of any cruise missile they possess. Also, the cruise missile does not "fly" across the map to get there. It "appears" at the target and absolutely does not follow a path to get there.

Here is how extreme it gets. The AI does not even have to EVER have explored the locations around, say, your battleship. And after your battleship is slammed with CMs, the ground track from the AI city to your ship is STILL unexplored!!! But the 8 squares around the target are explored. So, the AI just "magically" targets capital ships.

Similarly, the AI "knows" the location, size, and SDI contents of all your cities at all times. And similarly, nukes do NOT fly to their targets... they magically "appear".

There is one more thing, on top of that, for nukes. On the turn an AI nuke is completed, it can instantly be launched from ANY of the AI cities, anywhere. Once it is produced and spends one turn in a city, however, it seems to stay.

I have physically verified all of this stuff several times, using spies to watch the AI cities every turn. Quite interesting how radical some of the AI "tricks" are.

So based on this and other info I've observed, I'd say it is indeed quite likely that the AI knows the location of your subs, and targets them when they are within movement range of an AI attacker.

BTW, I use Civ II 5.4.0f (patch 3, march 1999).

Play under the assumption that the AIs are a single entity and it knows the location of everything.

Of course the AI can see subs. It attacks them all the time!

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<IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img1/flags-4/europe/fra.gif" border=0> Az <IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img1/flags-4/europe/gre.gif" border=0>

Have any of you played TOT?
If you haven't, there's a concept known as "invisible until concept," where the unit's icon appears invisible to any civ but that which owns it, until it attacks, when you see it perfectly well destroying your units. It's very similar to the submarine effect.

The thing is, the unit is still there, and you can see its stats (owner, health, type) in the view window if you have the luck of right-clicking on one. The only thing invisible is the icon on the map screen. Unlike submarines, which you can't right-click on and see unless you've already found it, and you can see them on the screen after you've run into them, invisible units don't warn you when you run into them, (you know how when you run a sub into another, it takes two clicks to attack: one when you hit it, and it appears, and another to attack.)the invisible units assume you know they're there, and you attack them, even if you don't want to.

Furthermore, it's really hard to keep track of them, because you have to search every square in it's possible range every turn.

So, since it's only invisible on the screen because its icon is see-through, the computer still knows it's there, And, since the AI doesn't have to see the screen, it can and will attack it when it wants to.

posted July 06, 2001 08:08 PM by Az:
Of course the AI can see subs. It attacks them all the time!

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LOL, the context was in that what the AI could do that is not within 'normal' unit capability. For instance, can a destroyer 'see' a sub that is 6 squares away and go attack it? Or can a battleship 'see' a sub next to it? The answer for Nukes (seeing the location of all cities) and for CMs (seeing capital ships) is 100% yes. The answer for "can the AI see subs beyond the normal range" is very likely yes, but I have personally not verified this so I won't submit that it is true, but it seems likely (esp. given how the AI 'sees' the targets of Nukes and CMs by using the game's master map).

Smash's method will certainly help protect the human, and it is a good general playing technique.

AI is like a god it knows everything.

posted July 09, 2001 01:29 AM
AI is like a god it knows everything.

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Just to make sure there is no confusion, the AI really does not 'know' everything. The computer program does, but does not pass the AI all knowledge. The program does, however, pass the AI more info than it does to the human, in particular CM & Nuke targeting info.

AI is like god but still it suck. There should be about 10 more level up from diety for AI to chalenge human players.The CIV 3 should fix the AI.

In fact I don't care whether the AI sees my subs or not for one simple reason:

I never build subs the AI always sucks at sea. With three battleships you can destroy every AI unit before the disc. of rocketry. After that you simply put an AEGIS with your B/S and that's it.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img1/flags-4/europe/fra.gif" border=0><IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/image_uploads/Azz.gif" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/img1/flags-4/europe/gre.gif" border=0>

I normally play on deity and I like to use battleships. Unfortunately the AI tends to sink them with subs! (DOH!)

I'd use my subs to sink their battleships (or cruisers or whatever), but they seem to be able to use a cruiser, chase my sub, and sink it. Very annoying. They shouldn't be able to find the sub that easily.

(Chase meaning I attack something and move away. The next move they have the AI destroys my sub. No need to search it seems)

posted July 09, 2001 10:12 AM
... I normally play on deity and I like to use battleships. ...

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Vet Battleships with Vet AEGIS are almost invulnerable, esp. if the AI does not have ver Battleships to face your stack. I often stack 2 vet AEGIS in order to ensure 8 or 10 CMs cannot destroy the stack.

BTW, anyone ever see the AI use a *Carrier* to SHELL a city ? It does... which is hugely stupid, since a carrier has attack=1.

By Az:

In fact I don't care whether the AI sees my subs or not for one simple reason: I never build subs ....

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I agree with you, Az... ditto for me. The last sub I built was over a year ago.