C2C - Transhuman Era

Hydromancerx said:

That's fine. I trust you judgement on tech requirements since you have repeatably improved the tech tree in other eras before.

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Thanks. I'm leaning towards Bioinformatics + Biomaterials, but I will wait and see if ls612 has any other suggestions.

Vokarya said:

Thanks. I'm leaning towards Bioinformatics + Biomaterials, but I will wait and see if ls612 has any other suggestions.

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I also trust you on tech requirements because you have repeatedly cleaned up other parts of the tree. I have already given all of my suggestions for that part of the TH era, and I'll post my suggestions for the latter part of the TH era once the first two-thirds are done.

ls612 said:

I also trust you on tech requirements because you have repeatedly cleaned up other parts of the tree. I have already given all of my suggestions for that part of the TH era, and I'll post my suggestions for the latter part of the TH era once the first two-thirds are done.

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Okay, Bioinformatics + Biomaterials for Advanced Molecular Biology it is, then.

Here are the next two columns of the Transhuman Era, as they currently stand after some pruning.


Column X81:

• Y1: Unmanned Naval Vehicles
  requires Aquaculture + Deep Sea Exploration + Unmanned Air Vehicles [Next Generation GPS is gone]
• Y11: Imaginary Physics
  requires Advanced Molecular Biology + Exoplanet Discovery [Superstring Theory is redundant]
• Y13: Biomathematics
  requires Biomaterials
• Y17: Biomechanical Harvesting
  requires Biomaterials + Cloning + Extreme Sports
• Y19: Biopunk
  requires Biological Warfare + Cloning + Ecology

Digital Culture is merged into Online Communities. Speech Recognition and Contemporary Vehicles are merged into Machine Learning.

Column X82:

• Y5: Commercial Spaceflight
  requires Exoplanet Discovery + Space Tourism + Unmanned Air Vehicles [Next Generation GPS is deleted]
• Y7: Organic Photonics
  requires Flash Memory + Theoretical Physics
• Y17: Molecular Medicine (rename of Tissue Engineering)
  requires Biomathematics + Cloning

Machine Learning is deleted and merged into the new Machine Learning on column x79. Online Community is deleted and merged into the new Online Communities on column x80. Bacteriophage Therapy is merged into Molecular Medicine. Photorealism, Artisan Firefighting, and Specialized Police are all deleted.

It was suggested that Organic Photonics become Photosynthetic Power Generation, but I think Organic Photonics is actually referring to any organic light-manipulating technology, and a photosynthetic power plant would be more appropriate for a single building than an entire technology.

The following building changes will need to be made:

• Microbiology Lab and Vaccine Lab need their science bonus from Bacteriophage Therapy (TECH_PHAGETERAPHY) moved to Molecular Medicine (TECH_TISSUE).
• Robotics Lab needs its science bonuses from Machine Learning and Speech Recognition removed. It is already getting a science bonus from what was Cognitive Robotics and is now Machine Learning.

Discarded draft technologies:

• Active Denial System (merged into Digital Warfare)
• Mobile Workforce (better as a civic)
• Proteomics (deleted)
• Underground Warfare (deleted)
• Uplink Tactics (merged into Digital Warfare)

Now, here is a list of other technologies that were suggested but I don't think there were any comments on. These technologies are not in the current XML, so they will have to be built, if we think they should be included.

• Biometrics
• Biotech Agriculture [suggested rename to Synthetic Crop Design.] [I suggest Gengineered Crops]
• Birth Management [I suggest Population Control]
• Citizen Categorization [better as a Civic?]
• Clean Fission
• Ocean Energy Generation [suggested merge with Organic Photonics into Photosynthetic Power Generation. I disagree -- I think this is referring to Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion, which is not photosynthetic. I don't know if this is enough for a technology.]
• Smart Architecture
• Synthetic Battlesuit

Let me know what you think about these suggestions. I, personally, would definitely keep Biotech Agriculture and Smart Architecture (with whatever names they get) and then I am not sure about the rest just yet. Also, if I missed anything, please let me know because as I said before, there is a lot going on here.

I would like to commit these four columns of changes to the XML file. Let me know if I should go ahead and do this. I needed to clear out the old Online Community and Machine Learning techs before making the changes.

@Vokarya:

Ocean Energy Generation sounds fine to me, all of the other 'new' ideas I pruned in earlier rounds with MrAzure. Other than that, I approve of the setup for X81 and X82.

ls612 said:

@Vokarya:

Ocean Energy Generation sounds fine to me, all of the other 'new' ideas I pruned in earlier rounds with MrAzure. Other than that, I approve of the setup for X81 and X82.

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So you want an Ocean Energy Generation tech, then? I could probably make one, unless you want to.

Seems like we could put Artisan Firefighting, and Specialized Police in some new merged tech to represent an advance in Firefighting and Law Enforcement. Any ideas?\

What is Ocean Energy Generation? We already have Tidal and Wave Power Plants in the modern era. What kind of energy are you talking about?

I think we should just stick with the ones we approved before and then after its all done we can see if we want to add new ones to it.

Hydromancerx said:

Seems like we could put Artisan Firefighting, and Specialized Police in some new merged tech to represent an advance in Firefighting and Law Enforcement. Any ideas?

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Actually, I was thinking that we can include advanced, robotic police and firefighting buildings and units under what I believe is going to be called Civilian Robots -- what was originally First Responder Robots and is right now Disaster Robots. I personally think the name Civilian Robots is too close to Personal Robots which is much later in the Transhuman Era. I would like a different name.

Hydromancerx said:

What is Ocean Energy Generation? We already have Tidal and Wave Power Plants in the modern era. What kind of energy are you talking about?

I think we should just stick with the ones we approved before and then after its all done we can see if we want to add new ones to it.

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Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion) is generating power through temperature differences between surface ocean water and deeper, colder ocean water.

I will agree to leave this behind for now and we will just go with the techs that I posted in the table. Do you want me to go ahead with the XML changes?

Vokarya said:

Actually, I was thinking that we can include advanced, robotic police and firefighting buildings and units under what I believe is going to be called Civilian Robots -- what was originally First Responder Robots and is right now Disaster Robots. I personally think the name Civilian Robots is too close to Personal Robots which is much later in the Transhuman Era. I would like a different name.

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Ah Disaster Robots is good that should cover a lot. Cool!

Vokarya said:

Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion) is generating power through temperature differences between surface ocean water and deeper, colder ocean water.

I will agree to leave this behind for now and we will just go with the techs that I posted in the table. Do you want me to go ahead with the XML changes?

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Ah so its sort of like an ocean version of the Solar Updraft Tower.

And yeah go ahead with the changes on the chart. They seem fine to me.

Hydromancerx said:

Ah Disaster Robots is good that should cover a lot. Cool!



Ah so its sort of like an ocean version of the Solar Updraft Tower.

And yeah go ahead with the changes on the chart. They seem fine to me.

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OK. I'll work on the XML changes tomorrow and make sure that everything is fine before I upload. Then I can start posting the next few columns.

Vokarya said:

Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion) is generating power through temperature differences between surface ocean water and deeper, colder ocean water.

I will agree to leave this behind for now and we will just go with the techs that I posted in the table. Do you want me to go ahead with the XML changes?

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I've mentioned OTEC technology several times before. I think it should be eventually included because it has so much potential to generate power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTEC
The engineering challenges are similar to offshore oilrigs. It will be no more hard than mining the sea floor, and the first attempt to do that started this year.

Hydromancerx said:

Ah so its sort of like an ocean version of the Solar Updraft Tower.

And yeah go ahead with the changes on the chart. They seem fine to me.

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Everything I've read about the OTEC technology says that is has a lot more potential than Solar Updraft Towers.
DARPA is currently building an OTEC, and there have been several attempts to start it by billionaires, in the Phillipines, and Hawaii I believe.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/otec.html
http://www.otecnews.org/
http://hinmrec.hnei.hawaii.edu/ongoing-projects/otec-thermal-resource/
http://coastalmanagement.noaa.gov/otec/docs/otectech1109.pdf
http://www.energysavers.gov/renewable_energy/ocean/index.cfm/mytopic=50010
Just to prove how serious they are taking it.
Many corporations are starting to consider pursuing it today.

I've mentioned the book and organization that it inspired several times.
The Millennial Project: Colonizing the Galaxy in Eight Easy Steps
http://www.amazon.com/The-Millennial-Project-Colonizing-Galaxy/dp/0316771635

Like, Gerald K O'Neill's the High Frontier
http://www.amazon.com/High-Frontier-Human-Colonies-Apogee/dp/189652267X
There are lot's of plausible and great ideas, in both books, that should be considered in every attempt to colonize space (and the oceans). C2C deserves as much.
OTEC is actually as big a deal as geothermal energy, and is a proven technology that is seriously being developed. It can actually solve most of the world's energy problems on it's own.
Check out the energy generation potential with just simple deployment.

The only thing I don't agree with is just dropping technologies just because you didn't make enough room for them.
I'm all for 'more', and I agree with adding/removing these with some level of caution, but can't some of these ideas be moved to a 'potential' list so they can be considered for other versions.

I'm really against the idea of have a sparse near future, since there are so many potential ideas for technologies, and different scenarios. Nobody is going to be completely sure when some of these technologies will be actually possible.

rightfuture said:

I've mentioned OTEC technology several times before. I think it should be eventually included because it has so much potential to generate power.

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I'm sure we can find a place for it eventually, as a building if not as a separate technology.

Well the Solar Updraft Tower [Wonder] is already in the game if we need to move it to a new tech. Its currently requires Ecology, Solar Power and Megastructure Engineering.

I don't see why we cannot just use combo tech requirements and do the same for some sort of Ocean Thermal Power Plant (maybe with a better name).

Hydromancerx said:

Well the Solar Updraft Tower [Wonder] is already in the game if we need to move it to a new tech. Its currently requires Ecology, Solar Power and Megastructure Engineering.

I don't see why we cannot just use combo tech requirements and do the same for some sort of Ocean Thermal Power Plant (maybe with a better name).

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OTEC is what everybody calls it. Most people haven't heard about it yet.
It can also do some serious desalinization of water, and algae can be grown for food (in large noticeable quantities) along with it.
energy production - One study estimates power generation costs as low as US $0.07 per kilowatt-hour, compared with $0.05 - $0.07 for subsidized wind systems. Others do much better.
+2 food
fresh water

OTEC has uses other than power production.
Aquaculture
Air conditioning
Chilled-soil agriculture
Desalination
Hydrogen production
Mineral extraction
(per wikipedia)

@rightfuture

Sounds cool. So would it be better as a wonder, national wonder or regular building?

Hydromancerx said:

@rightfuture

Sounds cool. So would it be better as a wonder, national wonder or regular building?

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It could be a technology and a tile improvement. right?
Wikipedia considers it both. They are actually plants that could be built out of abandoned oil rigs, or snake from the coast into trenches for maximum effect.
They can be built in any ocean waters that have a significant enough temperature gradient. They will be extremely cheap to build at some point since they are basically just cold water pipes.

Like many technologies it took time to become feasible. It was actually invented in the 1930's, after skimming the previous links I put down above.

It has only been since the 1960's that the technology has become feasible.
Aquaculture, desalination, ocean water mineral extraction, and eventually hydrogen production could give pluses.

Ah so better as an improvement than a city building.

They couldn't be built in a city anyways, unless it's an floating island city. Since they actually require that specific technology to be built, I argue that OTEC's are both a technology and an terrain improvement. Since they can be built floating on ocean current to follow seasonal changes, it doesn't necessarily have to be a stationary one.

The Aquarius colonies (floating city colonies) from the Millennial Project inspired an incredible amount of people when it was written.

Like the NASA pictures of domed space colonies on the moon and mars, and tubular colonies, the pictures in that book obviously inspired many of the floating island ideas and designs of today.
Just do a google search on them.

Like The High Frontier book, I also mentioned above, The Millennial Project was based on a lot of solid science and most of it was achievable with the technology at that time.

On the topic of OETC, I think that it should most definitely be a tile improvement. That will actually make oceans useful in the TH era, whereas before they were only space in between continents. The thing is that this improvement (and the Desert Solar Tiles one as well) would be much more unique and thematically appropriate if we had Electricity as a Property. Especially given there won't be many cities in the Sahara or the Pacific.

Hello everyone,

The first four columns of the Transhuman Era redesign are done in XML. I haven't yet committed this to SVN just yet.

Here is a list of what I did:

Moved to the Modern Era:

Deleted Techs:


Moved Tech:

• Online Community to X80 Y3

Prerequisite Changes:
Some of these technologies are going to be merged or deleted in the next round. I just did this to make the current work-in-progress still work in the game.

Renames (did this after everything else):
@Hydro, can you please make the changes to your Lab buildings that I asked for in post #564? The changes I made will cause XML errors. When that's done, I can commit these changes.