Seige range

I am wondering if anyone has a good guide for determining the range of units against the terrain?

I have got all the early stuff figured out (Archers, Cats, etc...) Versus terrain, elevation, forestation and so forth. But I have not had a chance to do any testing on Artillery and Rocket Artillery to figure that out... And I am playing an immortal game right now that could rest on me getting it right.

I think it is exactly the same as how the others work, just add an extra range to it, but I am not sure... Anyone able to help?

A partial explanation is offered in this thread. I believe it's a bit more complex than that, but it's a start.

Thanks Camikaze

It is a little more complicated then that. Forests also have an affect (add a level of elevation I think).

But I am more specifically wondering about Artillery and hill forest affect on that. When I am done this game I am playing I will take the time to map edit out a full breakdown in screenshots so everyone can see it.

Regarding terrain, keep in mind that artillery and rocket artillery have free indirect fire promos, so intervening hills/forest/etc don't matter as long as another unit has sight of the target.

Thats was I was wondering! So there is no situation in which a Art or RA's range is decreased?

Even if it is say, a 2 forested hills blocking the way? or a mountain? (As long as the terrain is visible of course)

Edit:
Just read indirect fire info, and answered my own question.

Correct. Vision is all you need for artillery. In the following screenshot, all the highlighted tiles are viable targets, including the barbarian infantry on the other side of the mountains. As long as it's within 3 range and visible, you can shoot it.

Splify60 said:

I am wondering if anyone has a good guide for determining the range of units against the terrain?

I have got all the early stuff figured out (Archers, Cats, etc...) Versus terrain, elevation, forestation and so forth. But I have not had a chance to do any testing on Artillery and Rocket Artillery to figure that out... And I am playing an immortal game right now that could rest on me getting it right.

I think it is exactly the same as how the others work, just add an extra range to it, but I am not sure... Anyone able to help?

Click to expand...

It's actually pretty easy...
About (non-artillery) siege weapons without the indirect fire promotion:
1) A siege weapon has a range of 2 (3 with the range promotion). You can always shoot into all adjecent hexes.
2) When on a flatland (whether it has a forest/jungle or not doesn't matter), you can shoot the second hex only when the first hex is flatland without a forest/jungle.
3) When on a hill (again, whether it has a forest/jungle doesn't matter), you can shoot into the second hex when the first one isn't a mountain.
4) You can only shoot into hexes without fog of war.

So when you have a siege weapon on a hill, you have a very strong position as you can shoot over forests and hills which slow units down. If there is a river one hex away, you have an even stronger position as even cavalry can't move to you within one turn.

Also remember that units have zones of control, so within complete flatland having a melee unit with some formation promotions and a siege weapon directly behind it makes a good team as enemies with either have to kill your flatlands specialist or move around it while being vulnarable to fire from your siege (whom are devestating on flatlands).

Splify60 said:

I am wondering if anyone has a good guide for determining the range of units against the terrain?

I have got all the early stuff figured out (Archers, Cats, etc...) Versus terrain, elevation, forestation and so forth. But I have not had a chance to do any testing on Artillery and Rocket Artillery to figure that out... And I am playing an immortal game right now that could rest on me getting it right.

I think it is exactly the same as how the others work, just add an extra range to it, but I am not sure... Anyone able to help?

Click to expand...

- You need to have vision of the target hex to shoot into it. Any unit can grant vision to the ranged unit.
- Most ranged units have range 2, some have range 3 (longbowmen, range promotion, artillery, ranged artillery, battleship, submarines).
- Range +1 promotion adds 1 extra range (2 becomes 3, 3 becomes 4).

- to shoot from hex X to hex Y, ALL tiles directly between the two need to be "clear"
- a "clear" tile is any tile that is not an "obstacle".
- grasslands, marshes, plains, water, deserts, cities are always "clear" tiles.
- mountains and natural wonders area always "obstacles"
- forests and hills are "obstacles" if your ranged unit (hex X) is not on a hill
- The elevation of the target unit (hex Y) doesn't matter
- the "Indirect fire" promotion removes all "obstacles"
- Artillery, Battleship and Rocket Artillery automatically receive the "Indirect fire" promotion, other ranged units can get it through experience.

It seems even simpler than that. If you want to shoot another player's city with a catapult, you have to get right next to it no matter what. No matter where you put the catapult, whatever you want to shoot at will be one hex away.

That's my simple finding after playing the game for awhile.

Bibor said:

... cities are always "clear" tiles.

Click to expand...

Not if the city is on a hill. In that case, the hill still prevents firing across the city unless the cat/treb/archer is also on a hill.

Zaimejs said:

It seems even simpler than that. If you want to shoot another player's city with a catapult, you have to get right next to it no matter what. No matter where you put the catapult, whatever you want to shoot at will be one hex away.

That's my simple finding after playing the game for awhile.

Click to expand...

If you are saying what I think you're saying, you are incorrect. A catapult can certainly board a city two tiles away, provided it has line of sight.

Johan de Witt said:

It's actually pretty easy...
About (non-artillery) siege weapons without the indirect fire promotion:
1) A siege weapon has a range of 2 (3 with the range promotion). You can always shoot into all adjecent hexes.
2) When on a flatland (whether it has a forest/jungle or not doesn't matter), you can shoot the second hex only when the first hex is flatland without a forest/jungle.
3) When on a hill (again, whether it has a forest/jungle doesn't matter), you can shoot into the second hex when the first one isn't a mountain.
4) You can only shoot into hexes without fog of war.

Click to expand...

Actually, I'm pretty sure there's another rule: When on a hill, you cannot shoot over a hill that has a forest or jungle on it. So to sum it up:
1. What determines where you can fire is whether you're on flat ground or high ground, and what the tiles directly around you are.
2. You can always fire at the tiles directly around you, so the question is whether you can fire "over" the tiles directly around you (with range upgrade, you need to clear the conditions for firing over both the tile directly next to you, and the tile after that)
3. We have 5 different classes of terrain to take into consideration
-Clear flat ground: Can fire over it no matter where you stand (only kind of tile you can fire over if you're on flat ground)
-Flat ground with forest/jungle on it: Can only fire over it if on high ground
-Clear high ground: Can only fire over it if on high ground
-High ground with forest/jungle on it: Impossible to fire over no matter where you stand, unless you have indirect fire
-Mountains: Impossible to fire over no matter where you stand, unless you have indirect fire

Bonus information: Putting what was previously stated into this formula, tiles with cities on them always count as clear tiles, but they can both be high ground and flat ground, depending whether it was built on a hill. Also, I'm pretty sure these are the exact same rules as with sight radius, so you'll need to take the exact same considerations if you have indirect fire but don't have a unit to spy ahead for you.

I hope I didn't make it unnecessary complicated, I just like summing things up comprehensibly. Need to hold myself back before I start putting this information into a chart.

-High ground with forest/jungle on it: Impossible to fire over no matter where you stand, unless you have indirect fire

Click to expand...

I don't think this is correct. I think if you're on a hill, you can fire over any hill regardless of whether or not there is a forest on it. Hills let you fire over any tile except mountains. Otherwise, hills, forests, jungle block you from firing if you're not on a hill.

things get tricky in the third tile

Started up a new game just to confirm and demonstrate the part about forests on hills. Noticed vexing's post when I came back, which also demonstrates my point, but I'll just add my screenshot too, since it should show it a little more clearly.



Also, I don't think it's that complicated with a range of 3. The rules are consistent, you just need to apply them step by step.

I was joking with my post. It is just frustrating that it always seems like whatever I'm shooting at is NOT in the line of sight.

On that last screenshot, why can't you see two spaces into the water? Is that another rule?

Love those longbows... I still haven't played England to get them... I'm fighting her now and she just bombards me over and over and over.

Artillery shall soon make her answer for her crimes.

Regarding the two spaces into the water... the unit doesn't have visibility there so can't fire a shot into that hex.

Phew, I wasn't the only one who hadn't noticed yet after all. Catapults and trebuchets come with a promotion which reduces their sight by 1, meaning that by themselves, they can only see the tiles directly around them. I never noticed this before testing out this, because there has never been a case where I've sent these units right into enemy territory alone, without any unit in front of them to protect them. In this case, it's lent visibility by the city on a few tiles, while usually you'll have some basic medieval infantry in front of it to lend it visibility and protect it.

potatosalad said:

Started up a new game just to confirm and demonstrate the part about forests on hills. Noticed vexing's post when I came back, which also demonstrates my point, but I'll just add my screenshot too, since it should show it a little more clearly.

Click to expand...

Interesting. Learn something new every day.

So hills, forests, jungle are -1. Combined (e.g., forest hills), they're -2. Standing on hills is +1 (although still capped at the unit's actual range). Lets say mountains are -3. If someone wants a mod a unit to give them more range and test out if there's any amount of range that shoots over mountains, I'd be curious. That should pretty much straighten it out, no?

Louis, reread post #12 again. That's all you need to know.