SE 4 Zara Yacob

vranasm

Deity
Joined
Feb 2, 2002
Messages
6,437
Location
Czech Rep.
"Snack Economy" (or as someone rightly called "silly economy") is a series of games in which we try to learn how to best make use of food, with emphasis on the specialists which food allows us to employ.
Spoiler :

with original author of the series CivilizedTiger missed in action from July I allowed myself to pick up on his work and try to revive the series.
I tried to follow TMIT's strategy article about creating forum games, but am only human and did it for first time. If i bogged down the highest level saves I appologize myself and tell me how to do it better.


As recreator of the series I change slighty the basic rule of the series and that is:
We are not allowed to BUILD cottages. (do what you want with cottages you eventually capture with military conquest) edit: for clarification

It would be nice that you would remove all cottages before 1AD though to remain true a bit to the original spirit (meaning when you rush nearby AI and take cottaged land you should redo the cottages, that is a bit less tedious).

Our leader this round is

Zara Yacob - the organized chief



His traits are:
Creative - which easies the time with border pops and more important the vital libraries are a lot cheaper
Organized - which is great for lessening the costs of civics and cheaper courthouses that could be vital for no cottage game too.

Our unique unit is in my opinion very good one. It comes around the time of liberalism race, taking gunpowder is natural for rifle's rush or cavalry rush and he starts with drill II which means that with reasonable investment you can pump out drill IV units which are surprisingly good



Our unique building otoh is very tough to leverage. It can make more cultural pressure on your borders in disadvantage, but other then that and cultural victories (for which they are actually great) I don't see much use for them.



Starting location



Map spoiler

Spoiler :

It's fractal map, nothing unusual. I regenerated 2-3 times, at first I had chosen based on starting location another start, but after checking in wb i decided I don't like it.
This start has some twist to it.

Spoiler :

if you think you are isolated, or later semi-isolated, not all what shines is gold.
Spoiler :
you should look better



I am not sure how the AI's will fare on really high diffs. At least 1 AI will have problems, but there shouldn't be (I hope) big runnaways. didn't playtest


We don't start with any of the food techs we have in bfc and to make things worse all other tiles are forested.
will be interesting for me what people will choose as starting path etc.

Your stories
I don't put any strict limit. but would be nice to hear when you arrived to some crucial techs for no cottage games.
Namely writing, CoL, currency.
Then there is that good reporting time when you finish lib race (or lose it)
and then finally when you won (we are here to win you know!)

Map creation blahblah

The archive contains saves for noble (prince), monarch (emperor), immortal and deity difficulties, with monarch AIs having archery, immortal AIs having archery and hunting and deity AIs having archery, hunting and agriculture, as bonus techs along with whatever they were already starting with. For each difficulty, there is one version with goody huts and one without, since this is the only setting which you can't really change if you play a custom scenario. They all have events on, so if you wish to play without events, choose "custom scenario".

If you want to play monarch or emperor, you should add archery to the barbarians, using the WB.
If you want to play immortal, you should add archery and hunting to the barbarians, using the WB.
If you want to play deity, you should add archery, hunting and agriculture to the barbarians, using the WB.
 
I'm not sure I quite followed the AI cottages rule. So the rule is "no AI cottages"? Sounds like the best thing is to just pillage them when attacking for more gold.

edit: vranasm - I recommend next time adding "SE#" to the leader name (Your Details) before saving (e.g. - "SE4 Zara Yacob IMM"
 
in the first 3 games we had to remove all cottages even the ones which we got from AI's with capturing cities.
I found it very tedious in later game (and I think some people too was not that happy with it). So I think it would be fine to let the cottages you get later in the game through military conquest live.
You should just not build cottages with your workers.

(if you want to withhold the initial spirit of the series how CT started it, you will have to remove all cottages though...but as I said... very tedious).

@deckoff

kind of don't understand the remark about the start?

I just started game, didn't like start at all, regenerated then it seemed viable, but with WB checking I didn't think the situation is good (was some kind of isolation or something) and then I regenerated again, got this, checked in WB, seemed viable and that's it.
I didn't roll until I got no FP riverside or whatever you think would be better.
 
I think deckoff means that it's "darn tootin' " good

vranasm - I suggest adjusting the rule to clearly state that AI cottages in conquered/flipped cities can remain in the game. It kinda reads such that you are changing the old rule "we are not allowed to build cottages", but doesn't distinctly state what the rule change is.

non-spoilery spoiler

Spoiler :
Played to about past 1AD. Interesting map. I'm doing surprisingly well tech wise. I think culture is very doable in this situation and may be the target VC. I've founded 2 later religions without really trying that hard.

I have 8 cities including a barb city that flipped to me before an AI could grab it and another barb city I can take soon. The neighbor is not living up to one of his...umm..traits, which is surprising - letting me expand farther than I expected.

I'll post a report later in the day
 
Nice Idea, but there's one problem i have with it
Tooooooooooo much micro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
Ah, what the hell, i might aswell give this a go, if i have the time before the end of my hols.
 
what micro...just let the smart governors do what they do best....auto-run spys :D:rolleyes:
 
what micro...just let the smart governors do what they do best....auto-run spys :D:rolleyes:

At least that would let u run a spy economy! You could spend most of the game stealing techs of the AI, i think madscientist did that in one of his RPC's....
 
Essssssss Eeeeeeeeee?

No, the AIs can suck on my LME, trollolololol!

1 AD

Spoiler :


Settled in place. AG ----> AH (the pigs are slightly better, but not by enough to overcome the beakers saved by AG first). Then we get to spam workers/settlers/warriors/archers like no tomorrow. With gold and seafood as viable tiles, and careful management of roads to get early-ish foreign trade, we get da winz city count right away.



Axermen cometh 4 the barbs, so I do get to capture a city this game maybe.



Going for great library/probably sistine (sistine = very late AI culture attempts, and is useful to beat back Pacal who will otherwise annoy me)



1920 Space

Spoiler :


Another one of those games where I expand and then sit there doing very little until I win. I ran some scientists early to help things along, bulbing philo (didn't get it 1st), education, PP, sci meth, physics, electricity, and fiber optics (everything but philo just part bulb). No mids just parth/great lib/sistine gogo marble. Eventually I hit constitution and picked up a bit. Bio and lumbermills picked up even more. End civics were rep/nat/eman/env/OR. I didn't do anything to piss off nap/GK much so they went for gandhi, then pericles, then each other. Obviously had pacal/peri at friendly most of the game, and HC was easy enough to get pleased while I scapegoated the hell out of gandhi.

Just to be safe, built just under 50 infantry too.

None of that was needed though. Blazed through the game to a late space finish. Pacal was ahead of tech until the modern era, though I beat him to internet by an entire tech or so and had copper/good production set up. He stole computers off me 1 turn before I completed it. That was game.







Again, emphasis on "AI not having sistine = late culture for AI":



Capitol running a FULL FRONTAL LME kekekekeke



Winzor



Infantry are my game-given right.



 
@tmit

nice game, thanks for playing

just a question

Spoiler :

why you decided to have all that gold in 1 city? when I was checking the WB I was thinking that when I will play I will split the gold to at least 2 cities.

Btw you did there some deep beeline with Yehu, really blocked Maya a lot, will see if I manage to block so many land too.
 
@tmit

nice game, thanks for playing

just a question

Spoiler :

why you decided to have all that gold in 1 city? when I was checking the WB I was thinking that when I will play I will split the gold to at least 2 cities.

Btw you did there some deep beeline with Yehu, really blocked Maya a lot, will see if I manage to block so many land too.

Spoiler :


Normally I'd have split the cities, but since we weren't allowed to cottage I could easily come up with the food for all the gold mines and didn't want extra maintenance on multiple cities early.

I do tend to really city spam early. I feel safer doing it as it gives a strong base to operate later, and it's often possible to win with just the original cities if you get double digits.

Interestingly, I lost a city to barbs (auto-razed) but managed to re-settle it in time. It was my furthest southeast city, on sugar with the fish resource. My raw tech rate was pretty miserable until around 1200 AD, too. However, with 10 good cities and decent diplo/oxford/trade routes/tech trade I was able to pull ahead of everyone but Pacal pretty quickly. Pacal took longer. Admittedly, I could have just infantry/arty'd him to death but space seemed more fitting given the format.

Another interesting note is that I actually had enough pop to be #1, and was UN resident, saving me a lot of grief in terms of civics. I even screwed up the AI by forcing it into environmentalism...a civic that didn't hurt me much at all.

 
To 175BC, Emperor/normal

Spoiler :
Was a bit slow on the marble and Priesthood and missed the Oracle as a result, still managed ToA. I goofed settling the gold city, I thought all 4 were in the BFC :sad:. 3 city sites left to settle and a barb city to take with Axes on the way and I notice this part of the world doesn't yet have a religion, and I got a Prophet this turn.....

Current plan,
  • Bulb Theo and build AP
  • Take barb city, axes are on the way
  • Explore with a workboat
  • Get Calender
  • Get CoL as capital is running out of useful things for pop to do
  • Somewhere along the line I want Curency and Music too
Not sure what order to get Calender and CoL but Theo is my next priority.

With some luck Mayapan will flip to me, i'm actually going to make use of a Stele! :goodjob:
Spoiler :
 
to 25BC Emperor/Normal from Monarch save with not adding archery to barbs (I am dumb :-()

Spoiler :


First I have to say something feels definitely really wrong this game and no it's not the lack of cottages on my part.
Start was typical agri->ah, found horses south of capital with fps and gold, so it was the first city.
More south east another one and then 2 south blockers against maya.

On one of screenshots you can see in north east corner "wtf", because I have absolutely no clue what I planned with the city there... I plan to place around 2 more cities with heavy overlap.

In my game the AI's tech seriously wrong...they didn't get alphabet yet :-(.
I decided that I will self tech alpha now after getting lit and some wonders.

Right now I finally got fail gold from ToA (200+200 gold) hoping that it will breeze me through alpha, math, currency, col etc. I hope I will finally pickup some tech trades from ai's!!

At the western land I will fill with 2 more cities.
I have some beakers in monarchy so I hope I will get HR.
I didn't switch to Slavery yet... kind of didn't saw reason.

well that's it. if someone wants to help me with some comments I would apprieciate it, because it feels very wrong right now

Spoiler :









 
@vranasm

why u no cut treez around capital ?
wie wi wi

really make me wanna chop the hell out of wooden table in front of me!
 
@vranasm

why u no cut treez around capital ?
wie wi wi

really make me wanna chop the hell out of wooden table in front of me!

that's when you look at someone else's save and like the idea of national park :), since I already was spoilered with creating the game for players didn't see fault in reading spoilers before playing. it didn't matter because i bogged the game as usual :-D.
 
To 1260AD,
Spoiler :
Tech rate was slow till I got Constitution with Lib in 1130AD and swapped to Rep during the Taj golden age. As a bonus I was first to Economics. Have since met 2 overseas AIs HC and Gandhi, and it looks like the tech rate away from my group is pretty pathetic, they didn't even have CoL!
How Mayapan hasn't flipped yet I don't know, its been under heavy culture pressure since the BC years and now a couple of other Mayan cities are getting close to collapsing under my culture too.

Plan is to get Rifling and run over Pacal with Rifles and Oromos then beat up on someone else till domination :rolleyes:. Don't know what to do about my civics, its my last GA turn so i'm tempted to swap to Nationalism for drafts, and OR isn't needed as much anymore.

The other option is to ignore Pericles and bump up the culture pressure on Pacal while going to smack the backwards numpties around. Should be more than enough land out there for a dom win.


@Vranasm
Spoiler :
Strange place for NE with that capital don't you think? Plus why not try for GLib in the NE city?
 

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To 1260AD,


@Vranasm
Spoiler :
Strange place for NE with that capital don't you think? Plus why not try for GLib in the NE city?

Spoiler :

well the NE build is only placeholder...will get failgold after I build the true NE in GLib city
that said capital could probably get the GLib with NE instead, that's true.

 
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