Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Joseph wrote:Just my opinion and take on what's happening here. And only really meant to be a cautionary note. Besides what do I really know about C2C's future.
Click to expand...

If your offended by what I wrote, then you didn't digest the whole statement.

Strategyonly wrote:I too am offended by they verbal (written) words. Yes everyone knows that this mod is a by product of Rom/AND. Whats wrong with taking the best parts of it and placing it in a mod, only makes it better.
Click to expand...

I knew you wouldn't understand, sorry for confusing you.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
Since the change from version 11 the bonus (gold, food, hammers) that Goods gave have been removed. Too many voices "squawking" over making Too much Gold and not enough maintenance costs (we must be poor empires to play CIV IV BtS right! :p ); Rogues, Thieves, Assassins, Rangers all changed or reduced; Sea hazards removed (ie Monster fish). Jungle Camps no longer work and the AI only chops Jungles down for hammers now. All these just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can find more.

The Mod Has changed significantly from versions 10 thru 12. Even with out AND's renewed influence and Afforess' return. So I wonder if the Vision for the mod is to keep it in a constant state of flux and change? Does it have a goal? I'm just speaking out some of my concerns here. Because I guess I really don't know if it does have a goal.

As for Afforess and AND, I know when he came back and I've been playing his 1.76betas too. I just hope that you don't adopt everything he has done. Why? Because if you do the Only difference then between C2C and AND will be the Pre Historic Era and Hydro's Goods and C2C will only really be an AND ModMod again. Sure Afforess has some good new ideas in AND, but C2C doesn't need all or even most of them. Just my opinion and take on what's happening here. And only really meant to be a cautionary note. Besides what do I really know about C2C's future.

I just want this Mod to stay on course to become the Greatest BtS Mega Mod.

I really Do have Major concerns over the Jungle Camp (it's really broken and doesn't even come close to Vincentz original vision for Jungle tiles) and the upcoming Maintenance Costs (history repeating itself).

JosEPh
Click to expand...

Joseph, I am sure that I fixed Jungle Camp. Maybe I got the values wrong. Can you post a screen shot showing the before case? Maybe I forgot changes due to tech or route.

All. I am not worried about the changes to gold or whatever with the goods system but with the fact that in the latest iteration we may as well not have them because the effect is now the same as it was when we did not have goods. V11 was not the best and had a few problems but the fix was not a fix but a revert to no goods.

At the moment I think there are two and a half visions of where this mod is going and that is causing some problems. It is a divergence that will probably settle down soonish then I can introduce the idea of three divisions of water tiles coast-sea-ocean like we had in Civ III.:mischief:

<rant on>Also experimental stuff is being put in the base mod before we can check out that it is the right direction and refine it if not. It is not even being included as an option. The population requirement for buildings is the latest. It would have been so easy to do first as a mod then as an option.<rant off>
 
Small DLL update attached. Some AI improvements from Afforess and a couple of minor bug fixes from me. Nothing urgent here - just wanted to keep the modders up to date.

Note - really intended for the modders to test with. NOT save game compatible with base v12 DLL (but save game compatible with the one the modders have had for a few weeks now).

If anyone has anything they urgently want me to look at next please let me know. My current priorities are:

1) [if anyone can reproduce it still, because I can't, so although listed as top priority not actually active without any test data] Fix the supposed limit on number of bonus types that can be defined - I can't generate a problem however, so this may already have been fixed by other changes.

2) Look into the can't-load-scouts-on-Caravels problem that has been reported

3) AI work on early game to get the AI a better foundation for the rest of the game. In particular better AI hunting of animals and better beelining of a few key technology choices are my main goals.
 

Attachments

DRJ said:
Great news Hydro! One thing is still on my mind, though. As my games almost never reach further than renaissance,
Click to expand...

Well with the new compatibility features you should be able to finish your game and still update your game to the newest version. This personally has been helping me with my update since I can test later eras from saved games, rather than starting up a new one.

DRJ said:
though....
One last sentence about DHs comment that all the cities and civs have been becoming the same: yes I don't like that either. I want civs that have special UU, UB and traits, it's just tradition, keep it, please.
Click to expand...

Working on this. Note that the "bonus" resources still make cities unique. Such as Ivory + Deer = Giraffe Hunter's Camp or Stone + Prime Timber = Dig Site (Amber).

Dancing Hoskuld said:
<rant on>Also experimental stuff is being put in the base mod before we can check out that it is the right direction and refine it if not. It is not even being included as an option. The population requirement for buildings is the latest. It would have been so easy to do first as a mod then as an option.<rant off>
Click to expand...

Seriously do you want me to "force override" on EVERY building? Because that
s what i would end up having to do with the city size limit. (Note this statement is an exaggeration since some building don't need it at size 1).
 
Hydromancerx said:
Well with the new compatibility features you should be able to finish your game and still update your game to the newest version. This personally has been helping me with my update since I can test later eras from saved games, rather than starting up a new one.



Working on this. Note that the "bonus" resources still make cities unique. Such as Ivory + Deer = Giraffe Hunter's Camp or Stone + Prime Timber = Dig Site (Amber).



Seriously do you want me to "force override" on EVERY building? Because that
s what i would end up having to do with the city size limit. (Note this statement is an exaggeration since some building don't need it at size 1).
Click to expand...

You could just have done a mod no need for force override at all. All you need is the three tags per building. BuildingClass, Building and size.

for example
Code: 
		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_ORACLE</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_ORACLE</Type>
			<iPrereqPopulation>13</iPrereqPopulation>
		</BuildingInfo>
 
@ Koshling:

Here's a stalled game: I am tring to get into the Capital of my civ and then it just stalls, i have tried now three times to no avail.:(

Logs + new autosaved system.


EDIT: Or if you get into a different city, which i tried, sooner or later going thru the cities it will also stall.
 
@Thunderbrd

Here's a bug-fix of the tool that addresses the case you sent me. You also had a slight misunderstanding with the template, where nested tags were involved. Example here:
Code: 
<ScanTemplate sourceTag="BuildingInfos/BuildingInfo">
	<SimpleMapping sourceTag="BuildingClass" outColumn="Class" />
	<SimpleMapping sourceTag="Type" outColumn="Type" />
	<SimpleMapping sourceTag="iCost" outColumn="Cost" />
	<ComplexMapping sourceTag="PrereqBonuses" outColumn="Bonus Pre-reqs">
		<dataElement sourceTag="Bonus" />
	</ComplexMapping>
	<ComplexMapping sourceTag="CommerceChanges" outColumns="Commerce(Gold),Commerce(Research),Commerce(Culture),Commerce(Espionage)">
		<dataElement sourceTag="iCommerce" default="0"/>
	</ComplexMapping>
	<ComplexMapping sourceTag="FreeSpecialistCounts" outColumn="FreeSpecialistCount">
		<dataElement sourceTag="SpecialistType" />
		<dataElement sourceTag="iFreeSpecialistCount" />
	</ComplexMapping>
	<!--ComplexMapping sourceTag="FreeSpecialistCounts" outColumn="FreeSpecialistCounts">
		<dataElement sourceTag="FreeSpecialistCount" />
	</ComplexMapping-->
</ScanTemplate>
Note the commented out bit at the end (which is not needed). You just need to specify the top level tag (i.e. - the one immediately inside the info elemnt you are gathering - so in this case "FreeSpecialistCounts" and the dataLements it uses for its (multiple) values, regardless of whether they occur inside nested subtags or not. The output format is a bit funky in such cases, because it's having to cram multiple values into a single column, which is why the column values look like:
Code: 
([SpecialistType=SPECIALIST_PRIEST] [iFreeSpecialistCount=1])
for such columns. However there isn't much you can do about this and retain a single spreadsheet format (i.e. - same numebr of columns) for all buildings.
You'll need to go through the template and modify nested cases like that - the above is just an example (there aren't too many though)
 

Attachments

strategyonly said:
@ Koshling:

Here's a stalled game: I am tring to get into the Capital of my civ and then it just stalls, i have tried now three times to no avail.:(

Logs + new autosaved system.


EDIT: Or if you get into a different city, which i tried, sooner or later going thru the cities it will also stall.
Click to expand...

I can reproduce it but I can't help you I'm afraid. It's stuck in some sort of infinite loop in some Python (presumably the Python code for the city screen). It repeatedly calls the DLL getColorInfo() for color type 15 and never seems to stop. I have no idea where to find the Python code that is running or how to debug it I'm afraid.

Any resident Python experts want to give it a shot...?

Your save DID show up a slight bug in the load routine for the new format though, so attached is a fix for THAT.
 

Attachments

1) New update for next version only. Update to my last, ie does not contain previous updates. The ZXperiment folder in DancingHoskuld/Custom_Religions needs to be deleted as I have merged the stuff there back into the religion files. Adds in the Sikh religion and fixes the shrine movies for Ngai and Jainism.

2) A prototype replacement for the city screen which displays the buildings by cost. See diagram. I have not figured out how to make a button that will let you change sort orders on the fly or as a BUG like option yet.

@Koshling, while it does not cause errors, adding a new religion does not work properly with save games. I added Sikh then studied the tech, no one else had it, but the religion was not founded. Its icon did not appear in place of the tech icon either.
 
Koshling said:
I can reproduce it but I can't help you I'm afraid. It's stuck in some sort of infinite loop in some Python (presumably the Python code for the city screen). It repeatedly calls the DLL getColorInfo() for color type 15 and never seems to stop. I have no idea where to find the Python code that is running or how to debug it I'm afraid.

Any resident Python experts want to give it a shot...?

Your save DID show up a slight bug in the load routine for the new format though, so attached is a fix for THAT.
Click to expand...

Python aborts infinite loops and throws an exception, at least in most cases. I think so, anyway. I'm no python expert.

StrategyOnly, can you turn on debug mode for python logging (in the BUG panel), then try to enter the city again?
 
Koshling said:
@Thunderbrd

Here's a bug-fix of the tool that addresses the case you sent me. You also had a slight misunderstanding with the template, where nested tags were involved. Example here:
Code: 
<ScanTemplate sourceTag="BuildingInfos/BuildingInfo">
	<SimpleMapping sourceTag="BuildingClass" outColumn="Class" />
	<SimpleMapping sourceTag="Type" outColumn="Type" />
	<SimpleMapping sourceTag="iCost" outColumn="Cost" />
	<ComplexMapping sourceTag="PrereqBonuses" outColumn="Bonus Pre-reqs">
		<dataElement sourceTag="Bonus" />
	</ComplexMapping>
	<ComplexMapping sourceTag="CommerceChanges" outColumns="Commerce(Gold),Commerce(Research),Commerce(Culture),Commerce(Espionage)">
		<dataElement sourceTag="iCommerce" default="0"/>
	</ComplexMapping>
	<ComplexMapping sourceTag="FreeSpecialistCounts" outColumn="FreeSpecialistCount">
		<dataElement sourceTag="SpecialistType" />
		<dataElement sourceTag="iFreeSpecialistCount" />
	</ComplexMapping>
	<!--ComplexMapping sourceTag="FreeSpecialistCounts" outColumn="FreeSpecialistCounts">
		<dataElement sourceTag="FreeSpecialistCount" />
	</ComplexMapping-->
</ScanTemplate>
Note the commented out bit at the end (which is not needed). You just need to specify the top level tag (i.e. - the one immediately inside the info elemnt you are gathering - so in this case "FreeSpecialistCounts" and the dataLements it uses for its (multiple) values, regardless of whether they occur inside nested subtags or not. The output format is a bit funky in such cases, because it's having to cram multiple values into a single column, which is why the column values look like:
Code: 
([SpecialistType=SPECIALIST_PRIEST] [iFreeSpecialistCount=1])
for such columns. However there isn't much you can do about this and retain a single spreadsheet format (i.e. - same numebr of columns) for all buildings.
You'll need to go through the template and modify nested cases like that - the above is just an example (there aren't too many though)
Click to expand...

Thanks! I had thought I caught all those as I figured that bit out later on. I must've missed a couple.
 
@strategyonly

Since my cold is getting worse and I feel awful I am posting what I have so far. I was originally planning on doing much more, however it seems I am just not up to it right now. I do not want to delay the update so here it is.

HydroC2C17g Changes

- 35 New Housing Buildings
- Added Arcology Upgrade Chain
- Moved Irrigation Channels to Irrigation Tech
- Minor Tweaks

Enjoy! Back to rest for me. :yuck:
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
@Koshling, while it does not cause errors, adding a new religion does not work properly with save games. I added Sikh then studied the tech, no one else had it, but the religion was not founded. Its icon did not appear in place of the tech icon either.
Click to expand...

I'll set up a test case and check I can reproduce this at the weekend. Thanks for the bug report. Not sure what you mean about the icon part though - could you clarify that for me please. Also, was the tech new also, or just the religion?

This is the test I plan to try - if there is anything you think I should do different please let me know:

  1. Save a game where I am about to tech to a tech nobody else has
  2. Exit the game
  3. Edit the assets to define a new religion requiring the tech I am about to get
  4. Start the game again and load the save
  5. Finish researching the tech
This should grant me the religion, but presumably won't based on your bug report (in which casse I will track it down).
One other minor question - do you happen to know if the new religion got an ID in the middle of the existing range or at the end (if it shared a def file with other religions they go in order of the XML within a file, but the ordering between files is a bit harder to predict)?
 
I was trying to start a game this evening with the intent of utilizing the Religious Victory condition, but it appears Inquisitors aren't working... They're showing as an option when in the city screen, tho darkened out. When hovering over the icon, it states you must have the appopriate civic options selected. In reading the Civopedia entry, it says "Intolerant" has to be active, and you must have researched Fundamentalism. I have Intolerant active, have an active religion, and am well into the Industrial age, but am still finding myself unable to build Inquisitors.

*EDIT* Oh, and also I do not have "No Inquisitors" selected when I started the game..
 
Koshling said:
I'll set up a test case and check I can reproduce this at the weekend. Thanks for the bug report. Not sure what you mean about the icon part though - could you clarify that for me please. Also, was the tech new also, or just the religion?

This is the test I plan to try - if there is anything you think I should do different please let me know:

  1. Save a game where I am about to tech to a tech nobody else has
  2. Exit the game
  3. Edit the assets to define a new religion requiring the tech I am about to get
  4. Start the game again and load the save
  5. Finish researching the tech
This should grant me the religion, but presumably won't based on your bug report (in which casse I will track it down).
One other minor question - do you happen to know if the new religion got an ID in the middle of the existing range or at the end (if it shared a def file with other religions they go in order of the XML within a file, but the ordering between files is a bit harder to predict)?
Click to expand...

Sikh is in a different folder so I would say it does not share a def file.

The icon for the tech is replaced by a religion-tech icon if the religion is not founded yet. Originally the tech button would look the same but with a small circle of the religion but we have been slack in the button making when we moved religions to new techs and now the whole tech button is replaced by the religion button.

Your suggested test mirrors what I did.;)
 
Afforess said:
Python aborts infinite loops and throws an exception, at least in most cases. I think so, anyway. I'm no python expert.

StrategyOnly, can you turn on debug mode for python logging (in the BUG panel), then try to enter the city again?
Click to expand...

OK turn all the debug on and heres the logs: One thing i noticed is, i believe, it only happens in the Capital City or when in the screen mode going to the Capital City also.


EDIT: I also found out that its in the Renaissance Era at a certain point of the game, but now 50 turns or more later its working again?? Dont know if it will help or not but am including logs afterwards also (when its working again).

EDIT EDIT: Now the whole screen froze when going from left to right from last city on left to last city on right?
 
@Koshling, I forgot to remove the three three city limit when starting a new game. So I saved with max compatibility and removed the city limit from the civic. then I loaded the game and now I get "Can't build city because of" no reason given message.

BTW, today I tried adding the third type of sea terrain but it does not appear to be modular so it failed. Tomorrow I will try adding it to the main XML and see if I get some sea.
 
UPDATED: 25 Jun 11:00 am

New Rev/DCM
- 35 New Housing Buildings
- Added Arcology Upgrade Chain
- Moved Irrigation Channels to Irrigation Tech
- Minor Tweaks
- New dll, faster speeds
- New religion Sikh, plus some work alot better and have been tweaked
- New experimental changes also included
 
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