Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

One resource i have NOT seen in quite a LONG time is potatoes?? They are badly need right away in the Prehistoric Era, because of the Pygmy warrior and Papuan cannibal which i have never seen in any game (has anyone made these yet??), but you have to have Potatoes, which in my current Giant map has none??
 
C2C just keeps getting better, more expansive and more varied. One thing, I think it might be too difficult to build Rosetta Stone because I've had a game where I didn't have any ancient relics and none of my AI competitors did either. When i start a new version of C2C, I like to play on Settler so I have a chance to build every wonder. I play on Giant mapsize, Pangae, no revs, no vassals unlimited wonders and barbarian world. I really like some of the ideas in the advanced civics modmod and would like to patch my C2C version 23 with that once I know it's stable. Once again, thank you to the modders for your great work, creativity and attention to detail.
 
strategyonly said:
One resource i have NOT seen in quite a LONG time is potatoes?? They are badly need right away in the Prehistoric Era, because of the Pygmy warrior and Papuan cannibal which i have never seen in any game (has anyone made these yet??), but you have to have Potatoes, which in my current Giant map has none??
Click to expand...

How many should there be? I am getting about 5 on a huge map.
 
dusckr87 said:
Just a heads-up, but installing that program from that site also installs AOL toolbar and makes AOL your browser's "homesite". This is done automatically and without asking (at least if you use IE).

HERE is a link for the download without going through softonic.
Click to expand...

Dont know i they are the same or not, but the one you just put in there only has a 30 trial period????
 
Osk21 said:
One thing, I think it might be too difficult to build Rosetta Stone because I've had a game where I didn't have any ancient relics and none of my AI competitors did either.
Click to expand...

-This argument is for expanding the elements of Exploration in C2C (as a major effort in some new C2C version). Please bear with me as I want to highlight era progression and different ideas.

I would love to see more relics also (and abandoned cities that become lost -to be found later). Their discovery / generation could tie into tech advances, surveying, and archeology with discoveries like ground penetrating radar, satellites. It would be neat to see more destroyed civilizations/ ruined cities in the early game (remnants of ones that didn't make it), They could be forgotten during classical history, slowly uncovered in the modern era, and massively revealed with advances in technology today. It could easily give some great discovery flavor to C2C during different eras..

Exploration is a major feature of civilization, and it should be different for the different eras. Exotic animals found, natives cultures, lost cities, relics, lost knowledge. These didn't just happen in the early ages. The age of discovery didn't just happen when we first explored the world. I'm going to break down the attitude and motive of exploration here as I basically see it.

The Prehistoric eras: the primary motive for exploration was survival (live where food/shelter exists), migration (follow the food herds), Gathering (live where food grows), and the dawn of agriculture. Superstition rained, and the struggle was primal and uncertain. Animals and other tribes competing for food, were just as much as a threat. There is much evidence that cities, civilizations and agriculture (just look at recently adjusted timing discoveries) existed before classical times. Many were abandoned for all sorts of reasons (climate change -drought - see Mayans, warfare, flooding events like the Black Sea, the underwater Egyptian cities, and tsunamis from volcanoes and other events, etc.) Superstiton was the primary method of control, shamans and legenday god kings, used survival fear to keep people motivated. Discovery was unintentional and a byproduct of reaction, moving towards or away from significant events / motivating factors. Canoes sailed the oceans, plagues and drought moved people, people walked the land, oral tradition moved culture. Everything was new.

The Classic eras: This was the age were cultures came alive and grounded in fixed cities, as the animals, and elements were tamed, agriculture and animal husbandry created stable food sources and warfare became more political. Discovery was in conquest, agriculture became an attractive target for the game of control .Religions helped dispell superstitions for the purpose of keeping people in line (unified civilizations). Exploration came in the form of trade, new territory to conquer, coastal sea networks, whole civilizations were absorbed and razed (Troy anyone). Now we have neighbors; Let's compete with them attitude. Written preservation allowed technologies to build on each other faster. Stone, Bronze, Iron, the elements defined progression. Discovery was defined by looking for neighbors. Archeology was ignored except for usable materials (gold, silver, metal) and food sources. Dinosaur bones lead to myths of giants, minotaurs, gods, and great beasts. Cities were built on top of other cities.

The Age of Discovery(more classic, and medieval); this really started when trade started becoming global, the silk road, the spice trade. The Phoenicians, Chinese, Polynesians supposedly started minor far reaching trade, traveling networks in classic times.
(American Indians, Eskimos, Vikings, etc. duplicated the same type of exploring traveling cultures at different times.) This didn't necessarily follow the era progression.
It really took off when explorers started traveling the globe, looking for riches and new lands (Marco Polo or the Vikings highlighted the start) , Columbus and the other great adventurers such as Magellan, followed coastlines and maps to see what was over that next hill. The motive here was wealth, with countries funding exploration. The world started to push back the binds of superstition and wanted to tour the neighborhood. Gold and silver were the focus, relics, and abandoned cities were just signs were gold could be found. The terrain of discovery was one of nearby new cultures (china, africa, the middle east), exploitable resources, spotting of sea serpents/whales. The start of global mobility.

The Age of Colonization(Renaissance , Early Colonial) a full force expansion of the Age of exploration, probably started with the European discovery of the New World and the ending of the fear of crossing oceans. The eras spanning these ages we defined by the race to discover and conquer fueled/motivated by wealth, and religion(missionaries and religious conversion). We are looking past our neighbors to conquer foreign lands to build empires. Finding relics, dinosaur bones (what are they?) and lost cities (like the 7 Cities of Gold), and the Fountain of Youth myth, made this time very exciting.
-My favorite video game from that age is 7 Cities of Gold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Cities_of_Gold_(video_game)
supply lines to support colonies, fighting/ trading with the natives.
'You have discovered a vast land of land of canyons' (or landforms like trees, rivers, islands, swamps) is a great event item.
Resource discovery, like what is in Civ V and the Natural wonders mod could be a big focus in C2C. Heck both of Sid Meier's Colonization Games, both the standalone, and the CivIV remake highlight the importance of exploration and discovery as full game concepts.

In more modern eras, the dawning ages of machines, industrialization, science, and technology, space, information, and the future, all had significant changes towards our view towards exploration. Motivation is changing and different, survival, conquest, wealth, expansion, competition, cold war, space race. Discovery and exploration is different also. New resources become important, new techs unveil new desires, and uncover hidden treasures. Each can be exciting in different ways.

Tomb raiding could destroy artifacts, yield gold to scavenging thieves in mid eras. It could get worse over time as artifacts are valued differently. Natural wonders, discovery of new cultures, and now cities underwater and hidden by forests, can make C2C very interesting. Exploration is a very big deal, it can keep era progression fresh, and it has a major impact on history.
Anyone else feel the same?
 
couple of ideas if they have not already been mentioned.
How about a Panama Canal wonder, allowing you to put a ship canal up to 5 tiles long that does not require a city in the middle of 4 forts?

can the promotions given free by buildings, be buyable for any unit the moves into that city? I find it hard to believe that a unit cannot just walk into a city and BUY bamboo armor for them. Same for the other promotions, they are paying for the training to learn the promotion.

along the same lines, can you pay to remove a promotion so as to reissue it? Shock is a bonus against melee units, but useless when you are facing all gunpowder units now. It seems logical that a unit would be retrained for pinch against gunpowder units.
 
I want to apologize to everyone, CFC is acting very HICCUPY/SLUGGISH/SLOWISH, not our fault, as such i get tired of waiting for the page(s) to load recently for the last 2 weeks or so, and if some of your questions dont get answered i again apologize. sorry , but its not C2C its CFC.

ThunderFalls himself is aware of the problem, cant do much better than the main man himself.
 
strategyonly said:
I want to apologize to everyone, CFC is acting very HICCUPY/SLUGGISH/SLOWISH, not our fault, as such i get tired of waiting for the page(s) to load recently for the last 2 weeks or so, and if some of your questions dont get answered i again apologize. sorry , but its not C2C its CFC.

ThunderFalls himself is aware of the problem, cant do much better than the main man himself.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's been that way for quite a while now, but today was the worst. Everytime I check downforeveryoneorjustme it says CFC is down as well.
 
@rightfuture I have been thinking on similar lines. Ship wrecks and explorer's exploring ruins. The main problems are putting hidden stuff on the plot which does not destroy a resource or is destroyed itself by working the plot. The multiple features on a plot may solve the second but not the first.
 
@Dancing Hoskuld, couldn't we just set a short list of specific event variables with a (x,y) coordinates that gets checked once a turn? or per related event? Let's say 10 plots have fire, x1(100,110) is a fire in 100,110 coordinate, and it stores the old terrain temporarily and switches the graphic? There are probably only going to be a small number of hidden/ changed units of a certain type. The variable assignment may not be correct in C2C, but you probably get the idea; store only the changes. Most of the tiles would not need to be used; Only those with specific events. That way the list is only 10 items long (x1-10), instead of a whole other map, mirroring each plot. It only needs to be checked once per turn. That may take time but worth it for things like, fire, flood, plague of a certain type, tornado etc. With a click over the other terrain graphic could be accessed visually through the UI.
 
MrAzure said:
its because of the front paged "the guy whos been playing the same Civ 2 game for 10 years" Reddit post..im sure at least 100,000 people stopped by at CivFanatics in the last 12 hours.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_same_game_of_civilization_ii/
Click to expand...


Maybe we all should say something on reddit/facebook/digg/all the game forums.
Here's an idea - I recommend we all time ourselves for the same day of the next release, and coordinate our efforts talking about it everywhere.

I was pretty popular on digg at one time, a few months ago I was #4 in space exploration only, recently did my stats get messed up, and at one time last year #2 in science for 6 months.. (I have screenshots)
www.digg.com/rightfuture (- for those who care.)
Not a whole lot of people have 20,000 diggs like I do, it just shows what is possible with a little care. I could care less about some pointless ego goal reached, just promoting stories that could make a difference.

Imagine if we all promoted at once or spoke up more in the modpack forum. I bet we would see a lot of new people in C2C.

Since the C2C thread was moved to the project forum, the replacement thread in the modpack forum only comparatively shows only 15,222 views now. Not like the 300,000 it did before. Looks a lot less popular than it did. Bet few people know it is the biggest or most developed mod. Many players just play C2C, would be nice if more spoke up, and told others in the right places.

I'll make sure to add C2C as a link in my profile, and on facebook, I'm not on either as much anymore since C2C is worth more of my limited time. But I'll make sure that civfanatics is able to handle it.

On the next release let's drive 100,000 people to C2C!! :)
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
@rightfuture I have been thinking on similar lines. Ship wrecks and explorer's exploring ruins. The main problems are putting hidden stuff on the plot which does not destroy a resource or is destroyed itself by working the plot. The multiple features on a plot may solve the second but not the first.
Click to expand...
A second feature can be put on the plot without either destroying or be destroyed by what is already there. It can be purely graphical and controlled by scripting (the functions are exposed to Python).
I have not activated it yet because I did not get around to testing it yet (nor are all calls to getFeatureType evaluated and transferred to the new system but that still means that a good part of it should work) but if you want to experiment with it I can put a DLL compiled with it activated on the SVN.
 
Hi guys i realy feel like sharing some thoughts with you.

First of all i did not really play that many C2C games so far, i do not have the time for it but more importantly, i really don´t like C2C.
Don´t get me wrong it is well programmed with many maaaaaaaany good ideas and thats my problem with the mod, there are to many good ideas.

There is just so much stuff, so many buildings so many resources, i found it to be nearly unplayable at some point.
In my last game i ragequited after i could not get a trireme, i was missing rope.
Now i know i have to build some building to get it but i couldn't build it, i have no idea why, maybe i was lacking some other resources(think its either cloth or leather but i should have had them at this point :S), i kinda lost track of it somewhere in the civopedia and using the city screen to see what i am lacking to build the rope building was not an option as i could not find the building in the list due to the dozens of other buildings i could have build instead.
Not only is this kinda frustrating but it also kills the "feel" of civ for me, i am the king/queen/goodemperor/commerad chairman ect. i tell my people to build a ship and they do it, it really shouldn't be the one who runs errands fetching rope.


Speaking of buildings, do we really need that many?
We have a cat and dog breeder(maybe even more i don't know atm), wouldn't an animal breeder work just as well?
We have about a bazillion early game hut related buildings made of a lot of different materials, wouldn't one type of hut, buildable with any resource, be able to fill the same role?


Getting to the point, i would suggest this:

-Get rid of some buildings that fulfill the same or very similar roles as others and/or combine them into one building.
-Cut down the resource chains and the number resources used per building/unit.
-Try to cut down the micro management part, the emperor does not need to take care of building candy shops.
-Keep the Civopedia absolutely up to date, make sure all links work the way they should.( unfortunately i did not keep track of it but some links would bring me to wrong pages)
-Get a new layout for the Civopedia, its hell to find anything plus some things like culture are found in the wonder category.
-Get a new layout for the city screens building GUI, something like MoM did with theirs.
-Maybe a "light" version that is closer to vanilla Civ.(might not be worth the work)


MY 2 cents, enjoy!
 
Aline said:
Hi guys i realy feel like sharing some thoughts with you.

First of all i did not really play that many C2C games so far, i do not have the time for it but more importantly, i really don´t like C2C.
Don´t get me wrong it is well programmed with many maaaaaaaany good ideas and thats my problem with the mod, there are to many good ideas.

There is just so much stuff, so many buildings so many resources, i found it to be nearly unplayable at some point.
In my last game i ragequited after i could not get a trireme, i was missing rope.
Now i know i have to build some building to get it but i couldn't build it, i have no idea why, maybe i was lacking some other resources(think its either cloth or leather but i should have had them at this point :S), i kinda lost track of it somewhere in the civopedia and using the city screen to see what i am lacking to build the rope building was not an option as i could not find the building in the list due to the dozens of other buildings i could have build instead.
Not only is this kinda frustrating but it also kills the "feel" of civ for me, i am the king/queen/goodemperor/commerad chairman ect. i tell my people to build a ship and they do it, it really shouldn't be the one who runs errands fetching rope.


Speaking of buildings, do we really need that many?
We have a cat and dog breeder(maybe even more i don't know atm), wouldn't an animal breeder work just as well?
We have about a bazillion early game hut related buildings made of a lot of different materials, wouldn't one type of hut, buildable with any resource, be able to fill the same role?


Getting to the point, i would suggest this:

-Get rid of some buildings that fulfill the same or very similar roles as others and/or combine them into one building.
-Cut down the resource chains and the number resources used per building/unit.
-Try to cut down the micro management part, the emperor does not need to take care of building candy shops.
-Keep the Civopedia absolutely up to date, make sure all links work the way they should.( unfortunately i did not keep track of it but some links would bring me to wrong pages)
-Get a new layout for the Civopedia, its hell to find anything plus some things like culture are found in the wonder category.
-Get a new layout for the city screens building GUI, something like MoM did with theirs.
-Maybe a "light" version that is closer to vanilla Civ.(might not be worth the work)


MY 2 cents, enjoy!
Click to expand...

your oppinion is apreciated by this mod community but i thing this mod is not for you. the reason of this mod is to add more things. if you want less things download a new dawn mod
 
Oh i play AND a lot, the thing with AND is, it is somewhat unfinished, it needs some final touch but there is no one around to do it.
What promted to share my opinion here in the first place was some people advertising C2C in the AND forums as its successor, right in the middle of a discussions about how to get AND finaly finished before it dies out.
I read something like "guys AND is dead go play C2C instead its better anyways" between the lines there and acctualy had to restrain myself not to pick a fight over there, so i posted my thoughs here instead.
 
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