Wonders Tunes

Vrylakas · Aug 6, 2001

I vaguely recall seeing a thread about this previously but I can't find it, so I'll pose the question here:

How many of the Wonders tunes can anyone recognise? I'm particularly looking for The Great Library, Marco Polo, and Women's Suffrage.

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
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Az · Aug 6, 2001

What do you mean "recognise"?

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moof · Aug 6, 2001

August 15, Update starts in red below on this post.

---------------------------------------------
Here is a list anyway with what we have found so far.

Here is a link to a thread by Kemal titled

Wondermovie musical scores?

We have listed the info from Kemals thread here with the proper Wonder Movie.

As we "Score" this Game, giving one point for Author & another for the Title,
Here are the Standings so far:

Kemal ---- 3 points -- Handel, Vivaldi, & Bach

Smash ---- 4 points -- Handel's Title, Vivaldi's Title, Bach's Title, John Philip Sousa
(Additional Points to Smash for " Last of the Mohicans " soundtrack.)
As if anyone could catch him now.

Empress -- 2 points -- US3's "Cantaloop"

moof ----- 1/2 point --
and ------------------------- EL Capitan
Apollo --- 1/2 point --

() shall denote unconfirmed guesses

* indicates information needing confirmation of discovery

We will add any other points and credit as they discovered.
===========================================================
Update: August 15, 2001 : 
Smash has received information via E-Mail from Tim Train & Michael Ely.
We added the info from Smash's post to this post but here is a link to
Smash's post for anyone wanting to check us for accuracy & read the orginal text.

Wonder Music Revealed

Thanks to Tim Train & Michael Ely

Cudos to Smash for securing the information.

Tim Train's comments have been added below in purple type as tribute to
"Last of the Mohicans". The Sioux are the closest to Mohicans that Civ has.
Michael Ely's comments are in blue type.

"Most of the wonder movie music was inspired by certain pieces--
we actually mocked them up using the pieces as placeholder, and then
the music guys composed music that is "in the style of" that piece."

WONDER00.MOV -- Pyramids - inspired by Peter Gabriel's "The Feeling Begins"
from the Passion soundtrack.

* WONDER01.MOV -- Hanging Gardens - I can't quite remember the inspiration,
but I think it was from one of those Bamboo Flute compilations. Mike?
I don't remember what track was used for Hanging Gardens either;
I'll have to give it a listen.

WONDER02.MOV -- Colossus - Inspired by the "Main Title" from
" Last of the Mohicans " soundtrack

WONDER03.MOV -- Lighthouse - Inspired by "Elk Hunt"
from " Last of the Mohicans " soundtrack

WONDER04.MOV -- Great Library - Inspired by "Sheeta's Decision" from the
" Laputa: Castle in the Sky " soundtrack.
Personal plug: Laputa: Castle in the Sky is one of my favorite movies, ever,
and has a phenomenal soundtrack. It was directed by Hayao Miyazaki,
who also did the more famous "Princess Mononoke". It's not currently available
in the US, but the rights are owned by Disney and I hope they eventually release it.

WONDER05.MOV -- Oracle - I'm surprised no one got the inspiration for this one:
"Theme From Harry's Game" by Clannad. :-)

.

WONDER06.MOV -- The Great Wall - Inspired by Peter Gabriel's "Gethsemane",
from the Passion soundtrack.

* WONDER07.MOV -- Sun Tzus War Academy - I'm pretty sure this is also
inspired by Gethsemane, but I'm not going to click
through all 21 tracks on that album to be sure :-)

WONDER08.MOV -- King Richards Crusade - "Dance of the Furies" by Gluck,
from Orfeo. One of my fave classical pieces. Christopher Hogwood
and the Academy of Ancient Music do a killer version of this.

WONDER09.MOV -- Marco Polos Embassy - Inspired by "The Kiss", from
the " Last of the Mohicans " soundtrack.

* WONDER10.MOV -- Michelangelos Chapel - Some damn baroque thing.
Don't remember what or who.

* WONDER11.MOV -- Copernicus Observatory - I'm pretty sure this is inspired
by the Laptua soundtrack again--Track 12. It may also be inspired by
"The Glade, Part II" from the Mohicans soundtrack again.
We were pretty into the Mohican soundtrack on this project.

WONDER12.MOV -- Magellans Expedition - Inspired by "Promentory" on Mohicans.

WONDER13.MOV -- Shakespeares Theater -- From Shakespeare's - Henry V

WONDER14.MOV -- Leonardos Workshop -- US3's - Cantaloop
Tim confirmed Leonardo's is inspired by cantaloop.
Good catch on the cantaloop!

WONDER15.MOV -- J.S Bachs Cathedral -- Bach's
Fugue from Tocatta and Fugue in D minor

WONDER16.MOV -- Isaac Newtons College -- Antonio Vivaldi's
Concerto No. 10 in B minor (RV 580)

WONDER17.MOV -- Adam Smiths Trading Company -- Handel's
Arrival of the Queen of Sheba from Solomon

* WONDER18.MOV -- Darwins Voyage - Aaargh. You're going to keep me up
all night long trying to remember this one.

WONDER19.MOV -- Statue of Liberty -- John Philip Sousa's - EL Capitan

* WONDER20.MOV -- The Eiffel Tower - I'm pretty sure this was just
some random accordion music.

WONDER21.MOV -- Womens Suffrage - Inspired by "Swing At The Daisy Chain"
by Count Basie & His Orchestra

* WONDER22.MOV -- Hoover Dam - This was actually inspired by a track on the
Mechwarrior 2 soundtrack. Those guys did an awesome job on their music.
And it's still one of the best opening animations I've ever seen.

WONDER23.MOV -- The Manhattan Project - This was inspired by a Morphine track,
either "Bo's Veranda" or "I Had My Chance" from the Get Shorty soundtrack.
The Morphine track for Manhattan Project was "I Had My Chance." At one point some
QA guys wanted us to switch the music for Manhattan Project and Hoover Dam because
they thought that MP needed "more dramatic music befitting the most destructive weapon
ever produced by mankind," or something like that. But, the MP movie was meant
to be on the dark side. Incidentally, the Morphine track has a lot of intense wailing sax
that couldn't be replicated with digital sounds, so a guitar sound was used instead.

* WONDER24.MOV -- United Nations - I'm pretty sure this was inspired by the
main title to Laputa. But I'm not 100% sure on that one.

WONDER25.MOV -- Apollo Program - Inspired by the beginning of "Telegraph Road",
by Dire Straits. Random memory: we briefly thought about licensing the
80s song "Major Tom" by Peter Schilling for this clip. When put with that music,
the clip is much more celebratory and fun. This somber version is probably
more appropriate, but very different.
 As Tim points out, the music can really change the flavor of a movie.
From what I remember the Apollo Project wasn't even re-edited from the original
version {which did in fact use the "Earth below us" chorus from Major Tom}.
Yet, the feel is very different.

* WONDER26.MOV -- The Seti Program - I think this was another "inspired by
Mechwarrior 2" track.

* WONDER27.MOV -- Cure for Cancer - I think this was inspired by another
Clannad track, but I wouldn't swear to it.
 I'm also pretty sure that the Cure for Cancer was Clannad. 

Glad you like the wonder movies. This brought back some memories, especially
of the mechwarrior soundtrack and Tim's much-used copy of "Last of the Mohicans"!

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TTFNFm & MTFBWY moof

" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

and I'm not sure about the former. " - Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by moof (edited August 17, 2001).]

Duke of Marlbrough · Aug 6, 2001

I think what they mean is if anybody recognizes the songs and would know what the songs are called, or who does them? That kind of thing....

I play with the music turned off and couldn't bear to listen to it so I am no help, sorry. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

On Edit: What a surprise to hit submit and see all that info that came in right before me, wow. I guess some of you guys do analyze every part of the game, huh?

[This message has been edited by Duke of Marlbrough (edited August 06, 2001).]

Vrylakas · Aug 7, 2001

moof: Thanks for the link!

Duke of M wrote:
I think what they mean is if anybody recognizes the songs and would know what the songs are called, or who does them? That kind of thing....

Yup - that was the idea. Thanks. Sorry for not being clearer Az -

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
<IMG SRC="http://www.donlinke.com/images/Vlad/vlad_bevel.jpg" border=0>

moof · Aug 7, 2001

Smash said on the post from the link:

"ok...um
Statue of Liberty is a John Philip Sousa march..someone help me here.."

We are 99 percent sure that it is the same March that " Monty Python "
uses in their opening credits for " Monty Python's Flying Circus "
If someone would listen to the end of the wonder movie for SOL and
tell us if they think it is indeed the same tune?
If so the title is " The Liberty Bell March " by John Phillip Sousa.

We wondered as we listened to the SOL music if Sid or someone at "Civilization"
was a Python fan or if it was just a coincidence.
Either way we thought it was very cool as we are big Python fans.

Now come on some Civ II player out there must be a Classical music hound like
Smash appears to be.
We find it hard to beleive that more of the music titles are not known.
We have done a bunch of searches and can find the music credits for the
wonder movies No Where.

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TTFNFm & MTFBWY moof

" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

and I'm not sure about the former. " - Albert Einstein

moof · Aug 9, 2001

ok we found a little more info on a reply by Empressover at Apolyton.

Empress said that Leonardo's music was from the song "Cantaloop" by US3

so we are giving Empress credit as the "someone" Smash mentioned.

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TTFNFm & MTFBWY moof

" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

and I'm not sure about the former. " - Albert Einstein

Smash · Aug 9, 2001

Some of these tunes are made up or scored for civ I'm sure.
I must know The Lighthouse.If you find one,make it this one.

Shake's is a passage from some play obviously.Not real up on Shakespeare.Maybe Hamlet?

moof · Aug 10, 2001

ok we are working under a couple assumptions that we have no idea as to
their validity so maybe some one knows the answer to these two questions.

1. Unless the Wonder Movie Music is based/arranged/scored music from a ways
back in history the author of the music would have to be given credit.

2. In the " View the credits " portion of the initial setup screen in Civ II
it lists Jeff Briggs & Roland Rizzo under " Music Composed & Arranged By "

Under " Wonder Movies " it lists Michael Ely and Timothy Train

Is this enough acknowledgement to get by legally for any music these
people may have made up for the game ?

Also we have the Mac Version so we would be interested if anyone with a PC copy would check the " View Credits " crawl for any additional music credits.

The " View Credits " crawl is also where we found the Credit for the
" Henry V " monologue from Shakespeare's Theatre

So in order of request:

Vrylakas wants to know The Great Library, Marco Polo, and Women's Suffrage.

Smash needs "The lighthouse" music title

moof are very curious as to "The Hanging Gardens"

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TTFNFm & MTFBWY moof

" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

and I'm not sure about the former. " - Albert Einstein

Vrylakas · Aug 10, 2001

Smash wrote:
Some of these tunes are made up or scored for civ I'm sure.

You know, the problem is I've heard them so often by now that I can't really remember clearly, but I'm fairly certain that nearly all of the musical scores for the Wonders sounded very familiar when I first heard them. A few, like the UN, the Apollo Mission and the Cure for Cancer are assuredly Civ products.

moof wrote:
Empress said that Leonardo's music was from the song "Cantaloop" by US3

Thanks - I'll go hunting for this on the net tonight. This is a possibility, that these scores are pirated and filtered versions of existing tunes. Hmmm.

moof wrote:
Unless the Wonder Movie Music is based/arranged/scored music from a ways

That's just it; the lack of credits suggests at least some processing on Sid's part.

Smash wrote:
Shake's is a passage from some play obviously.Not real up on Shakespeare.Maybe Hamlet?

Yes, that much I do know - this is real Shakespeare. The beginning to Richard III, I think (though I could be desperately wrong). I do know I've heard this passage before on live stage.

Thanks all! The hunt is on! (Just in time for a new batch of music in Civ III...)

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
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moof · Aug 11, 2001

Vrylakas,

Since it appears you missed the bit about Henry V in the last post,
we mention it again here. Also since you, smash & moof seem to be the Lone Gunman
Three Musketeers in this endevour, and assumming smash is running only Mac copies
of Civ II. Your mission, Vrylakas should you decide to accept it, is run your PC copy of Civ II and check on the " View Credits " crawl we also mentioned in the last post.
On our mac copy it is the last choice in a dialogue box in the opening screen.

These are choices in the order they appear for us.

0 Start a New Game
0 Start on a Premade World
0 Customize World
0 Begin Scenario
0 Load a Game
0 View Hall of Fame
0 View Credits

Does your copy show any music credits ?

Good luck Vrylakas.

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TTFNFm & MTFBWY moof

" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

and I'm not sure about the former. " - Albert Einstein

Vrylakas · Aug 12, 2001

moof wrote:
Your mission, Vrylakas should you decide to accept it, is run your PC copy of Civ II and check on the " View Credits " crawl we also mentioned in the last post.

Gosh, I feel like I've just wandered into a Monty Python film...

Does your copy show any music credits ?

Yup. I see the Henry V reference now. Thanks. They simply list Jeff Briggs & Roland Rizzo under Musical credits, while Michael Ely and Timothy Train are credited for the Wonders movies.

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
<IMG SRC="http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar8t.jpg" border=0>

moof · Aug 12, 2001

Vrylakas · Aug 11, 2001

moof wrote:
drat

I didn't get a chance last night, but today - inbetween other stuff - I'll go hunting a bit and see if I can find something.

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
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Vrylakas · Aug 12, 2001

Well I've confirmed Empress is right; US3 has done several versions of Cantaloop, one of which clearly was used for the Leonardo Wonder movie.

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
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Sir Isaac Newton · Aug 14, 2001

Originally posted by moof:
Smash said on the post from the link:

"ok...um
Statue of Liberty is a John Philip Sousa march..someone help me here.."

We are 99 percent sure that it is the same March that " Monty Python "
uses in their opening credits for " Monty Python's Flying Circus "
If someone would listen to the end of the wonder movie for SOL and
tell us if they think it is indeed the same tune?
If so the title is " The Liberty Bell March " by John Phillip Sousa.

Sorry, folks, but I don't believe this is correct. I went to www.classicalarchives.com, where they have a massive MIDI archive of classical composers' works, including Sousa's. They had two files for The Liberty Bell March, neither of which matched the theme from the Statue of Liberty wonder to my satisfaction. (Both files were essentially identical, except for changes in orchestration.)

The theme from Monty Python's Flying Circus is the first part of the march in question, which definitely does not fit with the SoL wonder music. The second part, not included in the Monty Python theme, is vaguely closer, but still isn't near being exactly right.

I listened to the other Sousa marches up on that site, and I don't think any of them are right, either. But after an hour or so of searching, I've got a possibility to offer:

There is a march called the "Statue of Liberty March" (aptly named, eh?) that I found a few scant references to. I can't tell if it was composed by Sousa, a Lalo Schifrin, or somebody else, but I thought it might be the logical song to check on. Can anybody find a recording of it to confirm or deny this theory?

Barring this possibility, if nobody can find a song by Sousa or another composer that fits the bill, we may be forced to conclude that the CivII guys managed to create the most Sousa-ish-sounding non-Sousa march in history.

But I'm pretty darn sure it's not The Liberty Bell.

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"It's good to be the king." --History of the World, Part I

Vrylakas · Aug 15, 2001

Sir Isaac Newton wrote:
There is a march called the "Statue of Liberty March" (aptly named, eh?) that I found a few scant references to. I can't tell if it was composed by Sousa, a Lalo Schifrin, or somebody else, but I thought it might be the logical song to check on. Can anybody find a recording of it to confirm or deny this theory?

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll do a little hunting tonight for this and see if it fits the bill. Of course, as a thread in the Civ3 forum is currently complaining about, we may all be wasting our time here since there will be no Wonders movies in Civ III.

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."

moof · Aug 14, 2001

Sir Isaac Newton,

First, no need for sorrys we Welcome any Help on this thread.
Second, till you edit your previous post and take the comma off the end
of the .com, your link will not work.

Here is the same link for others who may want to use it.
classical archives

Great site by the way , Thanks Sir Isaac Newton.

third we should have been more specific, but of the 41 seconds of SOL
wonder music, only the last 5 seconds of the music sound like they are
the same as the opening of Monty Python's theme music. Maybe the Civ II crew
started in the middle of the march and ended as it went into the chorus or repeat.
Anyone else think the last five seconds of SOL, are like the Monty Python theme?

After listening to the Liberty bell march & the SOL tune several times
we are thinking that the SOL tune is a medeley. It starts with some tune
( maybe the Statue of Liberty march ) but it sure seems to end as
it segues into the Liberty bell march.

and last, we could not find a midi of the "Statue of Liberty March"
anywhere but it appears to be by Lalo Schifrin.

Here is a site with almost all the Sousa marches in midi.
Laura's Midi Heaven

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TTFNFm & MTFBWY moof

" Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

and I'm not sure about the former. " - Albert Einstein

Apollo · Aug 15, 2001

The song for the Statue of Liberty wonder movie is a two-song John Philip Sousa medley. The first part is the end to "El Capitan" (not listed on the classical archives web sight), followed directly by the beginning to the "Liberty Bell March" (aka the Monty Python theme song). I hope this helps.

Random Useless Fact (which I am full of): Sousa began as a ballad writer. He didn't do very well, until his wife discovered that when his ballads were sped up they made great marches.

Vrylakas · Aug 15, 2001

Apollo wrote:
The song for the Statue of Liberty wonder movie is a two-song John Philip Sousa medley. The first part is the end to "El Capitan" (not listed on the classical archives web sight), followed directly by the beginning to the "Liberty Bell March" (aka the Monty Python theme song). I hope this helps.

Progress! Thanks Apollo. I've heard the claim about the Monty Python theme before but when I listen to SoL all I hear is Sousa-type music. I'm a bit biased; when I hear marching music my skin crawls and I want to wrap the trombone around someone's neck, probably Sousa's.

Anyway, we are getting somewhere.

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."

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