madscientist
RPC Supergenius
You underestimate the Great Khan's abilities. If nothing else he will stay at war alot longer than anyone else, tying Justinian up. Neither of those leader like to take peace by giving tribute.
King of the World #13: Asoka
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
You underestimate the Great Khan's abilities. If nothing else he will stay at war alot longer than anyone else, tying Justinian up. Neither of those leader like to take peace by giving tribute.
Silv Something
Pi(e) Loving Maniac
So vanilla Civ was wrong?
huerfanista
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,276
My thoughts exactly. It's one of the reasons I hate it when Khan gets bribed against me. Unlike many other civs, you can usually count on facing mongolian units for real. Besides, it poisons one of your allies against your main rival; how can that be bad?
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Neal, love the series, LOVED the watchmen references, brilliant! 
But you did forget to mention ozymandius' input when teching construction and don't forget dr. manhattan if/when you tech fusion! Anyway great job and good luck, Asoka is my favourite leader and well suited to your victory choice. Only question. Will you turn off the science and go culture slider (if so when?) or will you go radio wonders and culture corps?
But you did forget to mention ozymandius' input when teching construction and don't forget dr. manhattan if/when you tech fusion! Anyway great job and good luck, Asoka is my favourite leader and well suited to your victory choice. Only question. Will you turn off the science and go culture slider (if so when?) or will you go radio wonders and culture corps?
Pohjalainen
Chieftain
Khan would certainly disturb Justian's development. Try to keep them warring with each other and produce culture yourself. Looking great so far!!
CHEESE!
On a long nostalgia trip
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,222
Kwibuss
Warlord
Nice one Neal. I haven't checked it really, but a possible next target city has Taoism which is another religion for you to benefit from. Also just get the great Khan in. Let him do what he's good at. You left Asia open for him, but it seems he didn't take advantage of him. If he can grab a city or 2 from Justin it might power him up. Not sure if you want that tho 
psyllogism
Chieftain
Trade maps (if you can) to get a better idea of the state of the world right now.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Neal already had Tao in one city before this set...Nice one Neal. I haven't checked it really, but a possible next target city has Taoism which is another religion for you to benefit from. Also just get the great Khan in. Let him do what he's good at. You left Asia open for him, but it seems he didn't take advantage of him. If he can grab a city or 2 from Justin it might power him up. Not sure if you want that tho
One religion that Asoka should pray for adquiring is budhism. Being on the wrong side of a crusade can be bad....
r_rolo1
King of myself
I just ( finally ) gave a look to the save....
First, the AP is in Paris, but our Friend justinian will most likely be the AP leader ( BUG thinks that he will win 110 votes vs Louis 79, and BUG AP polls are somewhat reliable ). You will not be forced to a peace via AP, but you can end in the wrong side of a embargo or ( heavens forbid ) a crusade ( both would drag Saladin, that has 4 pop living on a Budhist city ). That would be bad.
Justinian wants that city back because you haven't had enough war sucess on him ( said in other way, he thinks he is winning the war ). Kill some more units/raze that city between Caspium and Aral and he will be more amenable to the talk.
Why on Earth aren't you brokering Music ( and others ) for some very needed techs that you lack, like CoL, MC and Monarchy? BTW, if you want, Zara will attack Justinian and give you 40 g + Monarchy for Music.
Zara and Charlie have a big number of cities.... Zara should had grabbed most of Africa ( given how much cities Saladin has, I would not be surpised to see Zara on Egypt ) and I would dare to say the HRE grabbed most of Russia ( Justinian has not much of cities ).
There are 2 civs that are with hands full and that aren't in war with no one that you know: Khmer and France. I bet Khmer is gearing again vs Wang ( I sincerily hope that he's not thinking in attacking his worst enemy of today, Isabella
) and Louis is probably gearing vs HRE . BTW no spanish units so far attacking you?
Just one more thing: For heavens sake, get a more updated map of the World
First, the AP is in Paris, but our Friend justinian will most likely be the AP leader ( BUG thinks that he will win 110 votes vs Louis 79, and BUG AP polls are somewhat reliable ). You will not be forced to a peace via AP, but you can end in the wrong side of a embargo or ( heavens forbid ) a crusade ( both would drag Saladin, that has 4 pop living on a Budhist city ). That would be bad.
Justinian wants that city back because you haven't had enough war sucess on him ( said in other way, he thinks he is winning the war ). Kill some more units/raze that city between Caspium and Aral and he will be more amenable to the talk.
Why on Earth aren't you brokering Music ( and others ) for some very needed techs that you lack, like CoL, MC and Monarchy? BTW, if you want, Zara will attack Justinian and give you 40 g + Monarchy for Music.
Zara and Charlie have a big number of cities.... Zara should had grabbed most of Africa ( given how much cities Saladin has, I would not be surpised to see Zara on Egypt
) and I would dare to say the HRE grabbed most of Russia ( Justinian has not much of cities ).There are 2 civs that are with hands full and that aren't in war with no one that you know: Khmer and France. I bet Khmer is gearing again vs Wang ( I sincerily hope that he's not thinking in attacking his worst enemy of today, Isabella
) and Louis is probably gearing vs HRE . BTW no spanish units so far attacking you?Just one more thing: For heavens sake, get a more updated map of the World
re: Qin/Kublai- Yeah, it confuses me, too. The Qin head just looks so much more... Aggressive than the Kublai one. And the Mongols are all about the Aggressiveness.
re: War Allies- Okay, I'll definitely bring Genghis in. He's gonna fade into obscurity soon, anyway. May as well get some use out of him. I dunno about the Zara/Sala bloc, though (see Brokering Music, below).
re: Brokering Music- I'm kind of hesitant to do that before I get the Sistine Chapel up and running. Are the techs I'd get in trade worth the potential loss of all that Culture?
re: Apostolic Palace- Right. I think I'm gonna get that city up and running in Sri Lanka, maybe even refound the outpost outside of Persepolis in hopes of them getting Buddhism (by my count, I'm gonna need another 3 cities to allow for Cathedrals, anyway).
re: War Allies- Okay, I'll definitely bring Genghis in. He's gonna fade into obscurity soon, anyway. May as well get some use out of him. I dunno about the Zara/Sala bloc, though (see Brokering Music, below).
re: Brokering Music- I'm kind of hesitant to do that before I get the Sistine Chapel up and running. Are the techs I'd get in trade worth the potential loss of all that Culture?
re: Apostolic Palace- Right. I think I'm gonna get that city up and running in Sri Lanka, maybe even refound the outpost outside of Persepolis in hopes of them getting Buddhism (by my count, I'm gonna need another 3 cities to allow for Cathedrals, anyway).
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
@ Neal, you only need 3 cities with the Religion to enable a Cathedral, with 9 cities, you can build 3 cathedrals ergo.
Now granted its going to be hard to spread the 5th and 6th religions to these cities, well 4th and 3rd as well for that matter. But once you have 3 Temples up and running, 1 Cathedral becomes available to be built.
Boo , yeach you suck neal...you...ummm errr no..
Updated map, would help a lot, you get trade routes with cities you can see, I think, and not just having connections, so if you can see city, and are connected to it, trade route. Of course open borders etc.
Don't lose Sistine Chapel to a rouge Great Engineer pop, that ALWAYS seems to happen. Built those Monasteries, or just ADOPT ORGANIZED RELIGION.!!! spam out those missionaries, to you main cultural cites and build Monasteries there.
Is the Shewedgon pagoda still available?? if so, build it and go free religion, but since you insist on the religion modifiers, stick it to Justinian.
Now granted its going to be hard to spread the 5th and 6th religions to these cities, well 4th and 3rd as well for that matter. But once you have 3 Temples up and running, 1 Cathedral becomes available to be built.
Boo , yeach you suck neal...you...ummm errr no..
Updated map, would help a lot, you get trade routes with cities you can see, I think, and not just having connections, so if you can see city, and are connected to it, trade route. Of course open borders etc.
Don't lose Sistine Chapel to a rouge Great Engineer pop, that ALWAYS seems to happen. Built those Monasteries, or just ADOPT ORGANIZED RELIGION.!!! spam out those missionaries, to you main cultural cites and build Monasteries there.
Is the Shewedgon pagoda still available?? if so, build it and go free religion, but since you insist on the religion modifiers, stick it to Justinian.
Chieron
Warlord
The world map is sized huge, so you probably need more than just 3 temples per cathedral (4 or even 5, need to check that)
Interesting game so far.
huerfanista
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,276
Yes, huge requires 4 temples to build the cathedral (scales with map size).
EDIT: That means you need 12 cities to get 3 cathedrals of a given religion.
IAM
Emperor
Get Khan in the war.
I'd pillage/scout some at least before peace. What are we facing?
Music looks like choice trade bait right now. The Sistine would be great but I wouldn't let that stop you from getting some tech balance.
Are you going to spread into the south pacific?
I'd pillage/scout some at least before peace. What are we facing?
Music looks like choice trade bait right now. The Sistine would be great but I wouldn't let that stop you from getting some tech balance.
Are you going to spread into the south pacific?
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
I second the pillage-romp through Justinian's outerlands.
Moving into the S Pacific might not be a bad idea, assuming Sury hasn't already gotten there. Extra cities for those juicy cathedrals. I admit, though, I don't know how early the AI typically get down to Australia.
Does anyone know how likely it actually is for the AI is to declare a crusade? I know I've personally been the subject of AP-imposed trade embargos (sometimes at every election
), but I can't say I've ever been the target of a crusade...
Moving into the S Pacific might not be a bad idea, assuming Sury hasn't already gotten there. Extra cities for those juicy cathedrals. I admit, though, I don't know how early the AI typically get down to Australia.
Does anyone know how likely it actually is for the AI is to declare a crusade? I know I've personally been the subject of AP-imposed trade embargos (sometimes at every election
), but I can't say I've ever been the target of a crusade...
IAM
Emperor
If the situation is that dire we definetly need to trade music and tech up.
In this round, we bring peace back to our lands and ward off the predatory Chinese.
Lord Asoka's first act was to arrange sales of surplus Indian goods in foreign markets. The commerce was diplomatically dangerous, but the risk of war was, he felt, worth the massive influx of gold that shipping off his mouldering stores produced. Asoka then sent his finest musicians to the far-off court at Constantinople:
The Bollywood beats did soothe the savage emperor, and peace was restored. The border garrisons were nevertheless maintained, though, for the peace was not guaranteed to be anything but temporary. And, to the east, China also grumbled, eying the Indian heartland greedily. This was despite the mollifying entreaties of Suryavarman who, in addition to his other eccentricities, chose to befriend the outcast, volatile Qin Shi Huang. So any new soldiers coming out of Persepolis were sent to Calcutta, for it was the Gateway to the Subcontinent.
With threats presenting themselves from all sides, Lord Asoka knew that he would not be afforded the luxury of holding a monopoly on Music while the Sistine Chapel was constructed. No, the Indian people would need to modernize. And that required more trading:
Hereditary Rule was adopted so as to bring peace to the overcrowded streets of the empire, but no other new policies were brought into effect.
As Indian scholars worked to unlock the secrets of Drama (no doubt standing on a stage, quizzically holding props up to each other and spouting off catch phrases), Sri Lanka was settled in the year 625. Unfortunately, Buddhism did not succeed in capturing the hearts and minds of the island people:
Much as with Sitting Bull's settling of Hurricane back in KotW #12, Sri Lanka would be a useless drain of a city until the Moai Statues could be built. Thankfully, it would have the added bonus of the south Indian Cattle to aid its production, as soon as it found the Culture to do so. A Hindu Missionary, seeing that Buddhism was a lost cause, boarded a Galley and spread the mother faith there.
Drama opened the door to another set of lucrative trades:
The deal on Machinery was, of course, aided by its being halfway researched upon completion of the trade.
Against the protestations of his more warlike advisors (Advisor Rorschach was particularly dismayed), Asoka held out hope that relations with Justinian could be kept peaceful beyond the terms of the Peace Treaty. This meant not further antagonizing the Byzantines by siccing the Mongols on them. Asoka's strategy worked, in that Justinian continues to be unfriendly while not outright declaring war. But this led to the unfortunate venting of Genghis Khan's aggressions elsewhere:
Charlemagne was weak, and the new chew-toy of the Buddhist bloc, who had somehow persuaded Temujin to come along for the ride. Asoka, though, was a peaceful man, who looked upon the Holy Romans as an empire of friends. He declined Mongolia's offer to join in the fight. Thankfully, Mongolia stayed Friendly, even after this snub. Of all the leaders who say "All the more plunder for us," Genghis Khan is probably the only one that really means it.
In 775, it was finally time to end the phantom war with Spain:
The feud was little more than an annoyance, but it would be folly to allow Isabella to bribe in a more effective war ally against us.
Towards the end of the round, the strange Khmer began a bizarre procession to the west:
And that stack isn't the only one. I feel like I'm playing a Lord of the Rings mod. Sury doesn't have any real enemies, especially in Europe. He's Cautious with Isabella, so all I can think of is that this is a way-too-long setup for a dogpile on Spain.
In 910 A.D., the game smiled on us:
In some earlier playthroughs, the Chapel was getting built "in a faraway land" in the 700's, so I was really just building it for the failure payout. When we got to the mid ninth century, though, I started to realize that I might have a real shot at completing the thing, so I went all out, chopping Forests and starving the population to eke out every last hammer. Finally, I sacrificed four population to save three turns of production, and ended up with a huge boost to a Cultural game. Why it lasted this long, I dunno, but I'll take it.
So, with the completion of Engineering, I decided to wrap things up:
What should our next research target be? I'm leaning towards Paper, since it leads potentially to Education and Liberalism. And even if we get beaten to the free Tech, Education's Universities and Free Speech would be big helps. Paper also leads to Printing Press and we are, obviously, running yet another Cottage Economy (Gasp!). I could also see a case for Guilds to beef up our armies and make a play for the economic techs.
How likely is winning Liberalism?
Not very, I'd say. We're hardly club-wielding troglodytes, but we're not exactly on the cutting edge, either. I'd say Mansa Musa is a shoo-in for that particular prize. And we haven't even met Elizabeth yet.
You'll notice that I dodged that Chinese holocaust I described earlier. I think my rapid fortification of the Calcutta garrison had something to do with that. Protect a border city with an Axeman and a Warrior and you get what you deserve, I guess. I must say, our territory is nice and easily defensible. If we can hold Calcutta, Tehran and the Circassian/Persepolis region, our fleshy inner core is protected. So how far off is our next war?
Tough to say. China, at Cautious, is kind of a wild card. Justinian, at Annoyed, will certainly make at least one more play before game's end. I think I'm safe from the Zara/Saladin/Mansa bloc, but that's always subject to change.
Oh, and the more observant among you will notice that I'd traded for France's map way back up there in the beginning of the round. What's it look like, you ask?
Ethiopia's done a damn fine job getting out of their little cage and taking over the African continent. Saladin settled one city in Egypt and that was it, and Mansa Musa never really expanded beyond his starting area (By the way, that's an interesting patch of fog next to the Red Sea there- I guess there's a reason they call it the Holy Land!). Justinian doesn't seem as scary as he did at first. It looks like he was hemmed in by Charlemagne fairly early, so while he's a major threat now, I see him declining in the future. How the HRE is as weak in score as it is with as much land as it has, I don't rightly know. China looks to be a late-game bad boy, but what else is new.
So, that's where we stand. I feel a lot better than I did at the beginning of the round, but this game is hardly in the bag. And, of course, those that look at the save are probably gonna tell me that I'm two turns away from getting swamped by fifty Redcoats and Cavalry from English Galleons just off the coast. So we'll see. Oh, one more thing: Can anyone point me to a top-notch BUG tutorial? Other than the "Calcutta will grow to size 8 on the next turn" reminders, I'm not really sure what I'm doing with it.
Here's the save:
Lord Asoka's first act was to arrange sales of surplus Indian goods in foreign markets. The commerce was diplomatically dangerous, but the risk of war was, he felt, worth the massive influx of gold that shipping off his mouldering stores produced. Asoka then sent his finest musicians to the far-off court at Constantinople:
The Bollywood beats did soothe the savage emperor, and peace was restored. The border garrisons were nevertheless maintained, though, for the peace was not guaranteed to be anything but temporary. And, to the east, China also grumbled, eying the Indian heartland greedily. This was despite the mollifying entreaties of Suryavarman who, in addition to his other eccentricities, chose to befriend the outcast, volatile Qin Shi Huang. So any new soldiers coming out of Persepolis were sent to Calcutta, for it was the Gateway to the Subcontinent.
With threats presenting themselves from all sides, Lord Asoka knew that he would not be afforded the luxury of holding a monopoly on Music while the Sistine Chapel was constructed. No, the Indian people would need to modernize. And that required more trading:
Hereditary Rule was adopted so as to bring peace to the overcrowded streets of the empire, but no other new policies were brought into effect.
As Indian scholars worked to unlock the secrets of Drama (no doubt standing on a stage, quizzically holding props up to each other and spouting off catch phrases), Sri Lanka was settled in the year 625. Unfortunately, Buddhism did not succeed in capturing the hearts and minds of the island people:
Much as with Sitting Bull's settling of Hurricane back in KotW #12, Sri Lanka would be a useless drain of a city until the Moai Statues could be built. Thankfully, it would have the added bonus of the south Indian Cattle to aid its production, as soon as it found the Culture to do so. A Hindu Missionary, seeing that Buddhism was a lost cause, boarded a Galley and spread the mother faith there.
Drama opened the door to another set of lucrative trades:
The deal on Machinery was, of course, aided by its being halfway researched upon completion of the trade.
Against the protestations of his more warlike advisors (Advisor Rorschach was particularly dismayed), Asoka held out hope that relations with Justinian could be kept peaceful beyond the terms of the Peace Treaty. This meant not further antagonizing the Byzantines by siccing the Mongols on them. Asoka's strategy worked, in that Justinian continues to be unfriendly while not outright declaring war. But this led to the unfortunate venting of Genghis Khan's aggressions elsewhere:
Charlemagne was weak, and the new chew-toy of the Buddhist bloc, who had somehow persuaded Temujin to come along for the ride. Asoka, though, was a peaceful man, who looked upon the Holy Romans as an empire of friends. He declined Mongolia's offer to join in the fight. Thankfully, Mongolia stayed Friendly, even after this snub. Of all the leaders who say "All the more plunder for us," Genghis Khan is probably the only one that really means it.
In 775, it was finally time to end the phantom war with Spain:
The feud was little more than an annoyance, but it would be folly to allow Isabella to bribe in a more effective war ally against us.
Towards the end of the round, the strange Khmer began a bizarre procession to the west:
And that stack isn't the only one. I feel like I'm playing a Lord of the Rings mod. Sury doesn't have any real enemies, especially in Europe. He's Cautious with Isabella, so all I can think of is that this is a way-too-long setup for a dogpile on Spain.
In 910 A.D., the game smiled on us:
In some earlier playthroughs, the Chapel was getting built "in a faraway land" in the 700's, so I was really just building it for the failure payout. When we got to the mid ninth century, though, I started to realize that I might have a real shot at completing the thing, so I went all out, chopping Forests and starving the population to eke out every last hammer. Finally, I sacrificed four population to save three turns of production, and ended up with a huge boost to a Cultural game. Why it lasted this long, I dunno, but I'll take it.
So, with the completion of Engineering, I decided to wrap things up:
What should our next research target be? I'm leaning towards Paper, since it leads potentially to Education and Liberalism. And even if we get beaten to the free Tech, Education's Universities and Free Speech would be big helps. Paper also leads to Printing Press and we are, obviously, running yet another Cottage Economy (Gasp!). I could also see a case for Guilds to beef up our armies and make a play for the economic techs.
How likely is winning Liberalism?
Not very, I'd say. We're hardly club-wielding troglodytes, but we're not exactly on the cutting edge, either. I'd say Mansa Musa is a shoo-in for that particular prize. And we haven't even met Elizabeth yet.
You'll notice that I dodged that Chinese holocaust I described earlier. I think my rapid fortification of the Calcutta garrison had something to do with that. Protect a border city with an Axeman and a Warrior and you get what you deserve, I guess. I must say, our territory is nice and easily defensible. If we can hold Calcutta, Tehran and the Circassian/Persepolis region, our fleshy inner core is protected. So how far off is our next war?
Tough to say. China, at Cautious, is kind of a wild card. Justinian, at Annoyed, will certainly make at least one more play before game's end. I think I'm safe from the Zara/Saladin/Mansa bloc, but that's always subject to change.
Oh, and the more observant among you will notice that I'd traded for France's map way back up there in the beginning of the round. What's it look like, you ask?
Ethiopia's done a damn fine job getting out of their little cage and taking over the African continent. Saladin settled one city in Egypt and that was it, and Mansa Musa never really expanded beyond his starting area (By the way, that's an interesting patch of fog next to the Red Sea there- I guess there's a reason they call it the Holy Land!). Justinian doesn't seem as scary as he did at first. It looks like he was hemmed in by Charlemagne fairly early, so while he's a major threat now, I see him declining in the future. How the HRE is as weak in score as it is with as much land as it has, I don't rightly know. China looks to be a late-game bad boy, but what else is new.
So, that's where we stand. I feel a lot better than I did at the beginning of the round, but this game is hardly in the bag. And, of course, those that look at the save are probably gonna tell me that I'm two turns away from getting swamped by fifty Redcoats and Cavalry from English Galleons just off the coast. So we'll see. Oh, one more thing: Can anyone point me to a top-notch BUG tutorial? Other than the "Calcutta will grow to size 8 on the next turn" reminders, I'm not really sure what I'm doing with it.
Here's the save:
