Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
While 50% is a lot, I think Rome might be affected more than other civs by the recent reduction of strategic ressource quantities in TBM. Both their UUs require iron and are built in the same era!
Leaders
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
While 50% is a lot, I think Rome might be affected more than other civs by the recent reduction of strategic ressource quantities in TBM. Both their UUs require iron and are built in the same era!
An easy solution (and what I believe is the correct solution) is to remove the iron requirement for early siege anyway.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Wow, so much stuff to reply to in these threads now! 
@Ahriman
I like the name steam mill, I'll use it.
When choosing between representing Britain's stock trading vs industrialization, the reason I picked the latter is I feel it had a more memorable impact on history. Plus, having a UU/UB available earlier than usual is a unique mechanic used no where else... similarly with the Pioneer, no one else has a settler/worker replacement. These are some reasons I went for this.
About the Japanese, in the links I provided you'll see I did agree with you. Others made rather convincing arguments there's an importance to provide more options for civs though than purely military gains, you can see those discussions in the links.
The Shinto Temple has many uses. For a warmonger it can help keep up with social policies even when conquering... you can afford to annex more cities. It can also be used for purely REX strategies if you don't have many good military targets nearby. Or you can even use it for cultural victories. In addition, it provides +2
, which is useful for anyone. Basically it gives the player more options, which is the stated goal of the mods.
It also somewhat fits the society, since China, Japan, and other countries in the region have different perceptions of religion than many other regions, often with multiple belief systems overlapping. This is one reason why I made the Shinto Shrine buildable in more places, like how the Temple can be built anywhere.
Still, I'm open to changing the Japanese UB. The seaport is an interesting idea, though somewhat situational in its use. I've mostly been trying to move away from things dependent upon a certain broad category of terrain (water, forests, etc) as it mostly depends on map RNG luck instead of player skill.
Have you played the Iroquois much? I really enjoy the civ's flavor and they seem great on paper, but the only thing really going for them is the Longhouse, and it got nerfed in the terrain improvements mod. The Longhouse is available rather late, it's not a great option to beeline to (tried that in several games), and when you do get it you're playing catchup with the other civs that got good earlier bonuses.
A movement bonus in forested areas is a nice idea I agree with. I've been thinking about giving their combat units the Woodsman promotion for free. This would help them in the early game.
Regarding the Ottomans, see the earlier discussion about militaristic traits.
@Sneaks
I've only played one game with each so far with the new Pioneer/Factory, so I'll admit I don't really know for sure how the change is affecting them yet. What issues have you encountered? Any thoughts or analysis you can provide from your experiences playing with these would be very helpful, it's important to get as many perspectives from playtesting as possible.
I like the idea of a unique Armory for Japan. It could give a happiness bonus as well, perhaps. I don't remember the exact details offhand, but one aspect of Japanese towns were the administrative centers... and since the 'corruption' mechanic was rolled into happiness in Civ V, it fits.
I haven't played as Germany much so I'm not really sure how +20%xp and a free move-after-attack promotion would affect them. I'll put it on my todo list, and play a few games to thnk about what impact it would have.
@Ahriman
Barracks are rarely built in more than one city too, and Russia has that as a UB. Basically, the idea is to take something typically only constructed in one or two cities for Japan, and make it useful in more cities.
I like the idea of a unique Forge for Japan. Maybe it could give a little happiness and remove the Iron requirement?
As Seek pointed out, the goal of all these mods is to improve and increase the options available to the player. Giving a one-dimensional leader more choices accomplishes this.
I'm not entirely sure about this. As mentioned before, Japan (and China) have different perspectives of religion than most other civs, with multiple belief systems coexisting and followed simultaneously. A unique Monastery buildable in more cities does represent this (easy to have both Temple and Monastery).
In addition, Shinto is a very complex belief system I'm only partially familiar with, but to my knowledge shrines can exist almost anywhere... many natural or man-made objects can house kami. It's not unreasonable to believe that anything could provide a cultural bonus. It seems to make sense from the perspective of the Shinto practices, and is more efficient than a list of specific resources Japan was known for. In fact, for maximum historical sense it'd probably be logical to let the shrine be built near any resource, or even in any city. I think restricting it to luxuries works a little better though.
Also, as mentioned previously it does give a happiness bonus. The combination of more happiness and easier social policy generation are both useful traits for warmongers, so Japan can still be played militaristically. The militaristic side of Japan's society/history are well-represented by the UA and UU, this simply represents another side to the nation.
These are the reasons I eventually settled on the monastery suggestion, it does seem to fit Japan very well both for gameplay and real-world representation, if you do some research into it.
@Ahriman
I like the name steam mill, I'll use it.
When choosing between representing Britain's stock trading vs industrialization, the reason I picked the latter is I feel it had a more memorable impact on history. Plus, having a UU/UB available earlier than usual is a unique mechanic used no where else... similarly with the Pioneer, no one else has a settler/worker replacement. These are some reasons I went for this.
About the Japanese, in the links I provided you'll see I did agree with you. Others made rather convincing arguments there's an importance to provide more options for civs though than purely military gains, you can see those discussions in the links.
The Shinto Temple has many uses. For a warmonger it can help keep up with social policies even when conquering... you can afford to annex more cities. It can also be used for purely REX strategies if you don't have many good military targets nearby. Or you can even use it for cultural victories. In addition, it provides +2
, which is useful for anyone. Basically it gives the player more options, which is the stated goal of the mods.It also somewhat fits the society, since China, Japan, and other countries in the region have different perceptions of religion than many other regions, often with multiple belief systems overlapping. This is one reason why I made the Shinto Shrine buildable in more places, like how the Temple can be built anywhere.
Still, I'm open to changing the Japanese UB. The seaport is an interesting idea, though somewhat situational in its use. I've mostly been trying to move away from things dependent upon a certain broad category of terrain (water, forests, etc) as it mostly depends on map RNG luck instead of player skill.
Have you played the Iroquois much? I really enjoy the civ's flavor and they seem great on paper, but the only thing really going for them is the Longhouse, and it got nerfed in the terrain improvements mod. The Longhouse is available rather late, it's not a great option to beeline to (tried that in several games), and when you do get it you're playing catchup with the other civs that got good earlier bonuses.
A movement bonus in forested areas is a nice idea I agree with. I've been thinking about giving their combat units the Woodsman promotion for free. This would help them in the early game.
Regarding the Ottomans, see the earlier discussion about militaristic traits.
@Sneaks
I've only played one game with each so far with the new Pioneer/Factory, so I'll admit I don't really know for sure how the change is affecting them yet. What issues have you encountered? Any thoughts or analysis you can provide from your experiences playing with these would be very helpful, it's important to get as many perspectives from playtesting as possible.
I like the idea of a unique Armory for Japan. It could give a happiness bonus as well, perhaps. I don't remember the exact details offhand, but one aspect of Japanese towns were the administrative centers... and since the 'corruption' mechanic was rolled into happiness in Civ V, it fits.
I haven't played as Germany much so I'm not really sure how +20%xp and a free move-after-attack promotion would affect them. I'll put it on my todo list, and play a few games to thnk about what impact it would have.
@Ahriman
Barracks are rarely built in more than one city too, and Russia has that as a UB. Basically, the idea is to take something typically only constructed in one or two cities for Japan, and make it useful in more cities.
I like the idea of a unique Forge for Japan. Maybe it could give a little happiness and remove the Iron requirement?
As Seek pointed out, the goal of all these mods is to improve and increase the options available to the player. Giving a one-dimensional leader more choices accomplishes this.
I'm not entirely sure about this. As mentioned before, Japan (and China) have different perspectives of religion than most other civs, with multiple belief systems coexisting and followed simultaneously. A unique Monastery buildable in more cities does represent this (easy to have both Temple and Monastery).
In addition, Shinto is a very complex belief system I'm only partially familiar with, but to my knowledge shrines can exist almost anywhere... many natural or man-made objects can house kami. It's not unreasonable to believe that anything could provide a cultural bonus. It seems to make sense from the perspective of the Shinto practices, and is more efficient than a list of specific resources Japan was known for. In fact, for maximum historical sense it'd probably be logical to let the shrine be built near any resource, or even in any city. I think restricting it to luxuries works a little better though.
Also, as mentioned previously it does give a happiness bonus. The combination of more happiness and easier social policy generation are both useful traits for warmongers, so Japan can still be played militaristically. The militaristic side of Japan's society/history are well-represented by the UA and UU, this simply represents another side to the nation.
These are the reasons I eventually settled on the monastery suggestion, it does seem to fit Japan very well both for gameplay and real-world representation, if you do some research into it.
If I may sugest something for England, a UA Replacement:
Sun Never Sets - Luxury resources from cities and puppet states on seperate continent to the capital provides +1 happiness.
This would provide a better representation of the globe spanning empire than the current UA
Sun Never Sets - Luxury resources from cities and puppet states on seperate continent to the capital provides +1 happiness.
This would provide a better representation of the globe spanning empire than the current UA
Txurce
Deity
I missed all these as well, and have been commenting on the dev mod elsewhere. In brief, I think all of them improve the civs and none of them are OP, but the Pioneer only improves civ performance situationally. A Wall St. UB seems like about as good an good idea as the (fka Mfg. Plant).
The Shinto Temple makes huge cultural sense for japan, and having two pieces of the pie lean toward one side, while the other leans in the opposite direction is not altogether singular (or by definition a bad idea if it were).
I like Pouakais idea for a new SA for England. This along with the Mill could put them in the same category as the Ottomans, whose new SA is fantastic without shooting them past Siam, France, China and Greece.
By the way, Thal, I played a game yesterday where the post-Unique Leaders English AI still had the buffed longbowman, and used the move-after ability shockingly well, especially in besieging a city.
Buffing the Panzer seems like a no-brainer, but making the SA a more effective general warlike trait than Furor (Bushido is a good example) would make Germany the warmonger crowdpleaser it ought to be. Ahriman is right about Blitzkrieg being not typically German - most successful generals throughout history have used a version of it but something needs to be done here. Maybe making all military buildings cheap enough to be no-brainers in most cases?
Finally I agree with Thal about the Iroquois. I also love playing with them, dont get enough oomph out of the longhouses with the post-patch production adjustments, and found the UUs value too situational and therefore too limited. Giving all their units the Woodsman promo would be great and intuitive but then how about giving the Mohawk warrior a move after attack?
The Shinto Temple makes huge cultural sense for japan, and having two pieces of the pie lean toward one side, while the other leans in the opposite direction is not altogether singular (or by definition a bad idea if it were).
I like Pouakais idea for a new SA for England. This along with the Mill could put them in the same category as the Ottomans, whose new SA is fantastic without shooting them past Siam, France, China and Greece.
By the way, Thal, I played a game yesterday where the post-Unique Leaders English AI still had the buffed longbowman, and used the move-after ability shockingly well, especially in besieging a city.
Buffing the Panzer seems like a no-brainer, but making the SA a more effective general warlike trait than Furor (Bushido is a good example) would make Germany the warmonger crowdpleaser it ought to be. Ahriman is right about Blitzkrieg being not typically German - most successful generals throughout history have used a version of it but something needs to be done here. Maybe making all military buildings cheap enough to be no-brainers in most cases?
Finally I agree with Thal about the Iroquois. I also love playing with them, dont get enough oomph out of the longhouses with the post-patch production adjustments, and found the UUs value too situational and therefore too limited. Giving all their units the Woodsman promo would be great and intuitive but then how about giving the Mohawk warrior a move after attack?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Unique traits (as they're called in the files) are sadly very limited. There's been lots of ideas for them but at the current time we can only modify existing values, there's very little flexibility or unused attributes for the traits. The only unused attributes are basically XP and great person generation bonuses, which is why I used the latter for Suleiman.
The AI does indeed use move-after-attack well for longbows, and chariots too. It's likely the same AI subroutines as with mounted units.
Something I try and do is avoid two types of changes: too big (radically alters gameplay) and too little (not really any impact). Collecting lots of the too-little variety just ends up being confusing for someone adopting the mod, it's better to find alterations that are big enough to justify the added complexity (without overdoing it). For a unit with only 2 movement points, I'm unsure move-after-attack would have a significant enough impact to be worth adding to the Mohawks.
On the other hand, I quickly realized simply giving all combat units the woodsman promo (like the US gets the sight promo) would most definitely fall into the too-much category. It'd let things like tanks and horsemen move through forests at normal speed. I'll limit it to melee and gunpowder, the combat classes who can normally attain the promo.
On a side note... while adding this I discovered the woodsman promotion is mistakenly listed in the Civilopedia under the nonexistent Terrain promotion category, so it doesn't show up. I moved it to the Melee category for the next unofficial patch release.
The AI does indeed use move-after-attack well for longbows, and chariots too. It's likely the same AI subroutines as with mounted units.
Something I try and do is avoid two types of changes: too big (radically alters gameplay) and too little (not really any impact). Collecting lots of the too-little variety just ends up being confusing for someone adopting the mod, it's better to find alterations that are big enough to justify the added complexity (without overdoing it). For a unit with only 2 movement points, I'm unsure move-after-attack would have a significant enough impact to be worth adding to the Mohawks.
On the other hand, I quickly realized simply giving all combat units the woodsman promo (like the US gets the sight promo) would most definitely fall into the too-much category. It'd let things like tanks and horsemen move through forests at normal speed. I'll limit it to melee and gunpowder, the combat classes who can normally attain the promo.
On a side note... while adding this I discovered the woodsman promotion is mistakenly listed in the Civilopedia under the nonexistent Terrain promotion category, so it doesn't show up. I moved it to the Melee category for the next unofficial patch release.
That's a pain, what is that a limitation with, DLL?
I was looking for the Woodsman promotion page, it was bugging me that I couldn't find it. Could you tell me the prereqs. for it if it's not to much of a bother?
Will you be doing any improvements to the Mongols (Which everyone has), and Spain / Inca?
I was looking for the Woodsman promotion page, it was bugging me that I couldn't find it. Could you tell me the prereqs. for it if it's not to much of a bother?
Will you be doing any improvements to the Mongols (Which everyone has), and Spain / Inca?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Shock 3 / Drill 3 -> Woodsman (concurrent with blitz march etc)
The Traits.xml file contains a very limited number of attributes we can use for each trait, basically just the ones you already see. It's theoretically feasible to add things through lua, though much more complicated that it would be in the c++, and we can't recode the AI (yet) to recognize anything other than the attributes in that XML.
I did an indirect improvement to the Mongols through the citystate-capture bonuses, otherwise I feel that civ is relatively decent already. I don't have the spain/inca DLC, and I very much dislike modding things by looking at numbers alone without actual playtesting experience, so I'm hesitant to touch those.
The Traits.xml file contains a very limited number of attributes we can use for each trait, basically just the ones you already see. It's theoretically feasible to add things through lua, though much more complicated that it would be in the c++, and we can't recode the AI (yet) to recognize anything other than the attributes in that XML.
I did an indirect improvement to the Mongols through the citystate-capture bonuses, otherwise I feel that civ is relatively decent already. I don't have the spain/inca DLC, and I very much dislike modding things by looking at numbers alone without actual playtesting experience, so I'm hesitant to touch those.
Seek
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,773
Fair enough. I'm not *totally* against the idea of giving them a militaristic UB, I'm most concerned about UBs being bland. No offense, but to me just throwing 3 culture at an XP building isn't all that interesting or exciting. I think adding culture and maybe another small attribute to the forge or the seaport is more interesting, simply because their effects are more enticing. One other reason I'm hesitant to support a militaristic UB is because Japan already has a decent UU and one of the strongest military UAs in the game! So there are balance concerns here too.
I do agree with your thematic argument, actually. When the Monastery replacement was originally suggested it was only to include Whales, Dye and Silk to Incense and Wine. I still think that would have been a more realistic way to go, I'm not sure what Thal's reasoning was to change it.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Remember many traits in Civ IV were not one-dimensional: improvements to science or commerce could be adapted to just about any strategy.
To summarize things, the reason I altered the Japanese monastery is to represent characteristics of real-world Shinto shrines, after doing a few hours' research. They're fundamentally different from European monasteries: more common but often smaller (such as roadside shrines or shrines carried by people), and can enshrine kami contained in almost anything natural or man-made, from a small jewel to Mt. Fuji. Adding a few resources to the list doesn't really fit this, and isn't as interesting for gameplay.
This is like other UBs, which typically don't just tweak numbers, but add some new mechanic (Russia, Aztec, etc) or alter an existing one.
Basically, think about it this way. Ingame the Shinto Shrine can enshrine kami housed near any luxury resource, but are often smaller than a Monastery, therefore provide a little less culture per shrine. In addition they increase happiness of people around or visiting the shrine. Alternatively, perhaps there's some natural feature of the landscape near the resource (like a creek or hilltop) which is the actual shrine. It doesn't necessarily mean the resource is literally a shrine, simply that some aspect of the landscape in this area enshrines a kami.
To summarize things, the reason I altered the Japanese monastery is to represent characteristics of real-world Shinto shrines, after doing a few hours' research. They're fundamentally different from European monasteries: more common but often smaller (such as roadside shrines or shrines carried by people), and can enshrine kami contained in almost anything natural or man-made, from a small jewel to Mt. Fuji. Adding a few resources to the list doesn't really fit this, and isn't as interesting for gameplay.
This is like other UBs, which typically don't just tweak numbers, but add some new mechanic (Russia, Aztec, etc) or alter an existing one.
Basically, think about it this way. Ingame the Shinto Shrine can enshrine kami housed near any luxury resource, but are often smaller than a Monastery, therefore provide a little less culture per shrine. In addition they increase happiness of people around or visiting the shrine. Alternatively, perhaps there's some natural feature of the landscape near the resource (like a creek or hilltop) which is the actual shrine. It doesn't necessarily mean the resource is literally a shrine, simply that some aspect of the landscape in this area enshrines a kami.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
The Pioneer, Shrine and Mill do not yet, since they're still being discussed. I don't want to bug Seek to create new art until we're sure we'll use it.
I feel I'm mostly set on using the Pioneer at this point. I played Washington a few times and find it very fun, with good Manifest Destiny synergy. You get a sight bonus for scouting, Pioneer for quick settling, and -50% land buy for resource grabs. It's a great 1-2-3 that doesn't leave you feeling like the game's trying to let you do something that's not really effective (the feeling I got with Washington in vanilla). This "fun" quality is particularly elusive in game development so I want to stick with it. If any issues do arise I think I'll tweak the unit's cost or promotions instead of replacing it with something new.
The Shrine and Mill aren't set in stone yet since I've had very little playtesting experience with them. I don't want to move them to 'assured' or 'find something else' status until we can get a good sense of if they're enjoyable to play.
These are the questions I want to try and answer, and can use lots of help in that regard since the Shrine/Mill come later in the game:
Complex questions of relationships in context like these, especially the first question, are difficult to answer by looking at numbers. With random map generation there's too many variables for the human mind to easily grasp without simply doing it.
I feel I'm mostly set on using the Pioneer at this point. I played Washington a few times and find it very fun, with good Manifest Destiny synergy. You get a sight bonus for scouting, Pioneer for quick settling, and -50% land buy for resource grabs. It's a great 1-2-3 that doesn't leave you feeling like the game's trying to let you do something that's not really effective (the feeling I got with Washington in vanilla). This "fun" quality is particularly elusive in game development so I want to stick with it. If any issues do arise I think I'll tweak the unit's cost or promotions instead of replacing it with something new.
The Shrine and Mill aren't set in stone yet since I've had very little playtesting experience with them. I don't want to move them to 'assured' or 'find something else' status until we can get a good sense of if they're enjoyable to play.
These are the questions I want to try and answer, and can use lots of help in that regard since the Shrine/Mill come later in the game:
- Do they make the leader more fun to play?
- How effective are beelining to the Shrine/Mill, does it unduly hurt you in other areas?
(For example, the reason I've found a Longhouse beeline subpar is the delay for important classical-era items like research agreements and colosseums.) - What other techs synergize well for a secondary beeline?
- Which strategies do they enhance best in their timeperiod?
Games tend to go in phases as techs unlock new capabilities, so for example, the Shinto Shrine might not be as useful if you're typically building other important units/structures at that point. On the other hand, if there's often a lull in production when it appears it could provide an easy border and policy boost. Does it synergize well with new policy trees unlocked at this time?
Complex questions of relationships in context like these, especially the first question, are difficult to answer by looking at numbers. With random map generation there's too many variables for the human mind to easily grasp without simply doing it.
Txurce
Deity
Definitely agreed on the "smile factor" with the Pioneer. I just started a game with the Japanese, and have yet to reach the Shrine. I did beeline for the Mill, built it everywhere and managed to crank out enough production with a small empire to stay even all the way to the end, when I lost a space race to the much bigger Iroquois in 1850. It was definitely not OP, just good to have.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Yeah, I find this irritating. I'd argue for removing iron from the trebuchet.
I agree, I was suggesting a stock market UB for America. It is incredibly thematic to have a bit powerful late-game economy for America. Whereas settling extra cities a couple of turns earlier than they'd otherwise be settled is very weak, and has no lasting benefit at all.
There's a reason why there's no settler UB, its incredibly weak, the only purpose of the settler is to settle a city and remove itself.
The only way a settler UB would be useful is if it were cheaper.
And even then, its still not very fun because the ability disappears after the first few dozen turns. Whereas nearly all the other early game UUs have some extra ability that lasts through much of the game as you preserve and upgrade the unit.
How about a Forge UB, with a higher military production bonus and some extra culture. Swordsmith?
Seems thematic and useful.
I prefer a movement bonus to a combat bonus.
I still don't see anything that means a GPP boost has any synergy for the Ottomans.
I disagree that barracks are rarely built in more than one city, unless you're playing on reaaally small maps, and the Krepost is sufficiently useful that it is worth building in many cities.
Why happiness?
Doesn't make sense to me.
I don't think that "representing another side" that has no synergies with their other abilities is the right way to go, designwise. Yes, you can make a somewhat indirect argument for the Shrine as you have it, but Japan doesn't exactly seem like it should be getting extra culture from luxury goods. If anything, it would make more sense to make Japan have some kind of ability to cope with being resource-poor.
I'd strongly disagree with giving an ability that is completely useless on many map types.
England's ability is already weaker the fewer islands and oceans there are, this would push it over the edge.
* * *
I think in general on Civ abilities, I'd also make the point that the AI will perform better if all the abilities are designed to make it play well in a particular style.
The Japan AI is set to be aggressive for example, the AI will perform better if you give it advantages that support that. An AI Japan isn't going to find much use from a Shinto Shrine anyway.
Its also weird in that its the only specific religion being included. Why does Shinto somehow give a benefit, whereas every other world religion doesn't?
Polycrates
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,288
I'm not really sure about the settler UU for America - seems a little weak for an already weak civ.
What about a worker UU for America? Again, could be "pioneer" or something, like the Colonization hardy pioneers. I think this fits well with the "Manifest Destiny" theme of being able to rapidly develop new areas, and synergises nicely with the existing bonuses - buy new tiles and then develop them rapidly to get a city up and running fast (and the extra sight range lets them see danger from further and so develop in more "wild" areas). It also gives a bonus that others can't have, because having more workers doesn't help with developing an individual tile. And it helps with another American signature - developing railroads.
Of course, a worker UU would be hard to balance and obscenely powerful, but considering how mediocre America is, I think -25% (maybe more for railroads) would be pretty well justified.
What about a worker UU for America? Again, could be "pioneer" or something, like the Colonization hardy pioneers. I think this fits well with the "Manifest Destiny" theme of being able to rapidly develop new areas, and synergises nicely with the existing bonuses - buy new tiles and then develop them rapidly to get a city up and running fast (and the extra sight range lets them see danger from further and so develop in more "wild" areas). It also gives a bonus that others can't have, because having more workers doesn't help with developing an individual tile. And it helps with another American signature - developing railroads.
Of course, a worker UU would be hard to balance and obscenely powerful, but considering how mediocre America is, I think -25% (maybe more for railroads) would be pretty well justified.
Txurce
Deity
You'd have to practice Shinto to understand.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Hm, so some people say the Pioneer is overpowered and others say it's worthless!
Something to remember is since power in CiV has exponential gains, settling every single city a few turns earlier can have a worthwhile impact on the game. The pioneer moves 200% as fast in rough terrain as a normal settler and 150% on open terrain. You also don't need to escort it since it can easily evade barbarians. Not only that, this UU has an effect throughout the game game, while others have more limited scope. It's also replacing the B17, so it's a direct buff for the US because the B17 didn't have much value, being an air unit and so late in the game. The unique trait (double effect) and minutemen (free Drill promotion) were also buffed, so Washington's received buffs to all three of his uniques.
Woodman is a movement bonus... maybe you're thinking about something else? It's the one that lets units move at normal speed through forests and jungle.
With traits, there's only two options to create a new mechanic with the currently available modding tools: lower experience thresholds or a great person boost. Other than these, the only thing we can do is adjust numbers on traits. Due to the discussion about shifting from militaristic uniques to things more broadly useful, and the real-world history of the Ottomans and Suleiman, the second option fits much better for Suleiman, for reasons outlined in detail below.
Barracks are typically only built in the military city, anywhere else is generally inefficient as Civ V army sizes are smaller and you don't need to churn out as many units.
Japan has a somewhat different view on authority than some other societies, and since corruption/etc has been merged with happiness in CiV, happiness fits to represent things like this. Details of this are explained earlier. I'm not singling out Shinto compared to other religions any particular reason as such, this sort of UB simply fits for reasons detailed below.
The new uniques are in the development testing version of the combined thread here. They're still being tested. I've written up a better and more thorough explanation behind these uniques in that thread, and have copied it below. Hopefully this will make the reasons behind picking these particular options more clear.
Something to remember is since power in CiV has exponential gains, settling every single city a few turns earlier can have a worthwhile impact on the game. The pioneer moves 200% as fast in rough terrain as a normal settler and 150% on open terrain. You also don't need to escort it since it can easily evade barbarians. Not only that, this UU has an effect throughout the game game, while others have more limited scope. It's also replacing the B17, so it's a direct buff for the US because the B17 didn't have much value, being an air unit and so late in the game. The unique trait (double effect) and minutemen (free Drill promotion) were also buffed, so Washington's received buffs to all three of his uniques.
Woodman is a movement bonus... maybe you're thinking about something else? It's the one that lets units move at normal speed through forests and jungle.
With traits, there's only two options to create a new mechanic with the currently available modding tools: lower experience thresholds or a great person boost. Other than these, the only thing we can do is adjust numbers on traits. Due to the discussion about shifting from militaristic uniques to things more broadly useful, and the real-world history of the Ottomans and Suleiman, the second option fits much better for Suleiman, for reasons outlined in detail below.
Barracks are typically only built in the military city, anywhere else is generally inefficient as Civ V army sizes are smaller and you don't need to churn out as many units.
Japan has a somewhat different view on authority than some other societies, and since corruption/etc has been merged with happiness in CiV, happiness fits to represent things like this. Details of this are explained earlier. I'm not singling out Shinto compared to other religions any particular reason as such, this sort of UB simply fits for reasons detailed below.
The new uniques are in the development testing version of the combined thread here. They're still being tested. I've written up a better and more thorough explanation behind these uniques in that thread, and have copied it below. Hopefully this will make the reasons behind picking these particular options more clear.
Spoiler :
for luxuries around the city.
Great People.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Uh... what?
You're saying Shinto is superior to every other religion, and that only practitioners can realize this?
I'm atheist, FWIW.
But I don't see how Shinto can boost culture but other religions don't, and I don't think its a good idea to include one specific religion in the game but not others (personally I think removing them all was a good thing - its the concept of religion that matters, not the specific doctrines or tenets of the particular religion).
* * *
Though I think its low value, I think the larger problem with it is that it disappears so fast, after the settlement phase is over.
Whereas UBs and most UUs (with their built-in promotions) lead to benefits that the player can observe throughout the game.
Even if slightly faster settlement gave you a good ability, you wouldn't *observe* that ability, because its just a small increase in the general strength of your civ.
I think its far more fun if benefits are something that you can easily see by looking at the state of the game.
Like: you could easily see the value of an American stock exchange UB that gave you extra gold, or you could easily see the value of a Japanese forge building that could be built anywhere and provided extra culture and military production.
Similar threads
