[BTS] SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

[babybluepants]

Sounds like it went well. shyuhe. I guess bcool is up?

[shyuhe]

I just looked at bcool's table. Given our current bpt, we can actually do fission(1) -- satellites(1) -- fiberoptics (1) -- fusion(1) if we want. It depends on how many workers we need to build etc. though. Note that if we get a GSpy in 2 turns and an artist in 3, we can actually bulb away the GScientist and use the fusion GE to trigger the last golden age. No idea what he'll actually bulb though.

Also, I think we should research fission--satellites so that we can trade ecology to Roos one turn earlier.

edit: another thought is to use the fusion engineer to rush Cristo in GP farm (should be 1 turn given its size), which will allow us to revolt to police state/slavery as soon as we launch. Then we can whip with penalty to crank out an army to do our dirty work very very quickly.

[bcool]

got it! looks better than I hoped

I'll try to put some details into the plan. If people understand the spreadsheet that is the roughdraft of the plan. I might have to update it though. Looks like research is better than I guessed by about 500 per turn.

I think Marines will be built and Stalin will go down and we can keep the schedule outline in the spreadsheet.

Spreadsheet has spaceship launching on T251, I'll try a plan that launches on T250 but I don't have much confidence that it will happen with worker and marine builds.

[babybluepants]

I did a quick sweep through the cities and got 7270bpt w +700gpt. Don't forget we can also switch to FR in 2t. At a glance, we have over 3500 in base research, so FR will give 350-400bpt instantly. Edit: it will also cost us around 70gpt + inflation, ofc.

[babybluepants]

Roosevelt's gonna bomb another artist in Troy.

[shyuhe]

Yeah I saw that artist enroute I thought it was my own artist for a minute before I looked at the color.

I totally forgot that we can do anarchy free changes! Screw Cristo! We might as well build the Pentagon or something if we can burn the GE.

[bcool]

Okay I'm going to make a detailed plan tomorrow night and post it.

I took a look at the research with the spreadsheet and I couldn't get fission, satellites, fiber optics and fusion in 1 turn each even with 8000 research this turn and next and then 8500 for next 2 turns with FR.
I was still 2400 research short. If we can't get fusion a turn earlier and then composites a turn after that I don't think we are going to launch T250, the builds are just too tight even with max hammers in those cities. Maybe if we have a few forests around key cities but no luck there.

I think we are going to launch T251. That will me plenty of room to build marines, workers, transports to set up the wars and cleanup very nicely.

If you guys have time tonight/tomorrow to try and come up with a T250 plan great, but I can't see it right now. I think we are best case ~3500 research short. Maybe a GS could make it happen...

What would a GS bulb? fiber optics?

I have to work tomorrow but I'll have 3-4 hours to put in a plan tomorrow night.

[bcool]

A lot of cities are going to be able to build military units even before we launch I think. On that last turn while finishing the spaceparts and research is done, we can prime the cities with military builds so the first whip will be penalty free on the next turn (would need to keep caste for the hammer bonus on workshops that last turn though)

[babybluepants]

I'm pretty sure Fiber Optics is the GS bulb, yes. What GS would that be? I don't see how we could get one fast enough.

T251 is fine, I don't really see T250 happening either. Edit: what's the victory date with T251 launch? 1755 AD?

[shyuhe]

The GS is the currently existing one chilling by Moscow. If we pop a gspy next turn and an artist in T+2, we can bulb the GS on fiber optics as we'll complete fusion before the golden age ends, allowing us to start the next golden age using a merchant, prophet, spy, artist, and engineer. It's a bit of a long shot -- I'm ok going with the T251 launch as we're not exactly awash in time to try optimizing everything.

[babybluepants]

How about this:
T+1 Bahamas 3000 Spy/GE
T+3 Kamchatka 3300 GS (bulb)
T+4 GP Farm 3600 GA

[mdy]

How about this:
T+1 Bahamas 3000 Spy/GE
T+3 Kamchatka 3300 GS (bulb)
T+4 GP Farm 3600 GA

This should give us around 92% chance of getting a GS for bulbing. I think we should make the attempt.

[shyuhe]

A turn 251 launch gives us victory on turn 261, which is 1 turn after the last public save posted by the Ducks. So at worst, that should give us a tie. So I wouldn't fret the 250 vs. 251 launch too much.

[bcool]

Well, I think I can switch to FR next turn and still get

T+1 Bahamas 3000 Spy/GE
T+3 Kamchatka 3300 GS (bulb)
T+4 GP Farm 3600 GA

Someone want to check my numbers and spread sheet?
We starve GP farm 3 pop I think
And starve Kamchatka 1 or 2 pop

Also can someone find the formula for the amount of science the GS bulb gives us?

[babybluepants]

It's 1500b + 3b * Pop

[babybluepants]

This takes some careful planning, but we can also starve cities a bit by hiring all citizens as Sci for 1-2t. As long as they retain enough pop to work the required hammers in the end.

I agree w shyuhe, though - T251 is good. We don't need to crazy over this right now.

[bcool]

spaceship launch T250 plan see spreadsheet for details
assumes we get a GS and bulb him for ~3500 science.

Ok it is still incomplete and I'm not confident that I will be able to build many marines or transports for Stalin and I'm not confident I will be able to build too many workers.

There are 3 turns before the launch were I only need ~3000 science. So I should be able to pump out workers marines and transports then.

Please look it over today if you get a chance (I'll be away from the game for about 10 hours)

In regards to other builds other than Spaceship
I won't be building much during the first phase of the turn set wealth/research to get 8000 science and then 8500 science with FR hopefully. I will probably only build other stuff (marines/transports/workers/spies) during the slow research of genetics (last 3 turns before launch)

I will post more details tonight on what else I'm planning to do.

xpost with bbp

I think I can make the T250 date now. Of course if we don't get the GS then we change gears.

And we will have 3 turns prior to launch to prep wars. Unfortunately we won't be able to take out Stalin prior to launch so the 10 turns after the launch will be action packed.

[mdy]

Well, I think I can switch to FR next turn and still get

T+1 Bahamas 3000 Spy/GE
T+3 Kamchatka 3300 GS (bulb)
T+4 GP Farm 3600 GA

Someone want to check my numbers and spread sheet?
We starve GP farm 3 pop I think
And starve Kamchatka 1 or 2 pop

Also can someone find the formula for the amount of science the GS bulb gives us?

GP farm would generate a GP before Kamatchka if they were both due to generate one on the same turn. As such the highest number of GP points we could have in GP farm on T+3 is 3299. So we would need to be generating at least 301GPP/T on T+3 in GP farm for this to work. However without pacifism we can genarate a maximum of 220GPP/T in GP farm with 35 specialists.

Currently we will get 3756 beakers from a GS bulb.

[bcool]

GP farm would generate a GP before Kamatchka if they were both due to generate one on the same turn. As such the highest number of GP points we could have in GP farm on T+3 is 3299. So we would need to be generating at least 301GPP/T on T+3 in GP farm for this to work. However without pacifism we can genarate a maximum of 220GPP/T in GP farm with 35 specialists.

crap. you're right

If we get a spy next turn the plan is still a go I think.

Then we can use a GS to bulb fiber optics so we can get fusion in time for the next GA

If we don't get a GS from Kamchatka and we switch to FR we risk delaying the GA 1 turn and thus launch T251 since I can get GP Farm to pop T+5 with an artist without interferring with the GS from Kamchatka.

[shyuhe]

We can go with the T250 plan and hope for a spy next turn. If we don't get the spy, we can easily fall back on T251. I'll take a look at the spreadsheet tonight too.

10 turns should be more than enough to take out Stalin and Roos -- note that we don't actually have to conquer Roos since we can just land marines + workers to clean-up the fall out, take out his sod, then take peace.

Also, I wouldn't realistically count on improving Nottingham that much - it'll have to make do with its current production base as the tiles take way too long to improve. There are a fair number of workers terraforming Hastings that can then move on to Orleans. Not sure where we'll get the workers to terraform ex-China though