C2C - Specialists

EldrinFal · Sep 7, 2011

Starting this thread for discussion about City Specialists (Nobles, Spies, Engineers, Scientists, etc.)

Do you think they need to be adjusted? Do you find yourself never using certain specialists because they are overshadowed by other specialists? If so, what would make them worthwhile?

Although adding entirely new specialists may not be possible due to coding limitations, are there any yields you feel an existing specialist should have? Or should an existing specialist be completely changed?

EldrinFal · Sep 7, 2011

Does anyone use the Noble specialist much? He seems overshadowed by the other specialists. Maybe I'm missing something... :blush:

Desolator · Sep 7, 2011

Noble is good for conrolling/orienting GP birth.
If you assign one specialist to engineer and let's say four to nobe, then that four noble will generate points towards great engineer.
This could be interpreted as an exploit, but in my experience there are too much buildings/wonders that give great prophet ponts, especially in early games, so we can counter the prophet birth with nobles. Great spy is also too low at least in the "first half" of the game.

BlueGenie · Sep 7, 2011

Didn't know that. What happens with the Nobles GP generation if you have say 2 Scientist, 1 Engineer, and 4 Nobles?

climat · Sep 7, 2011

Noble gives Great Artist point.
I was planning to change it to general GPP since there isn't a specialist like Great Noble, but I realized it can cause a weird problem: What will occur when one city has only Nobles and GP spawn?
Maybe Great Noble can be added.

I use Noble frequently when I use Monarchy. It gives +2 :gold:

(and culture) and it is unlimited unlike other specialist who gives :gold:

(priest and merchant)

EldrinFal · Sep 7, 2011

climat said:
Noble gives Great Artist point.
I was planning to change it to general GPP since there isn't a specialist like Great Noble, but I realized it can cause a weird problem: What will occur when one city has only Nobles and GP spawn?
Maybe Great Noble can be added.

I use Noble frequently when I use Monarchy. It gives +2 (and culture) and it is unlimited unlike other specialist who gives (priest and merchant)

Hmm... I tend not to use specialists too much in the early game as I prefer food and hammers to build up my city. With the Civics the way they are now, Republic is the best Gov't for how I play, so I tend to go to that as soon as possible, get myself a state religion, and then use Priests to boost my GPP to found religions, and if I can get the Wonder to add more hammers to Priests, they become ever more valuable.

climat · Sep 7, 2011

I could use specialists because cities grew very fast. Since city growth was adjusted, I'll not be able to do the same thing.
You may be right about noble.

Desolator · Sep 7, 2011

I did not notice this was changed. In latest AND (base for c2c), it still gives general gpp.
@BlueGenie
It would boost great sc. and great eng. I think the ratio is based on the number of 'real' specialists assigned. But this was when it gave general gpp.

climat · Sep 7, 2011

I suggested that when I played AND.. But I didn't realize it might cause the problem I mentioned at that time.
I'm thinking it may increase usefulness of noble changing its Great Artist points to Great General points or general points.

strategyonly · Sep 7, 2011

Yes, i want the Specialist Doctor added. But need DH's response also.

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 7, 2011

strategyonly said:
Yes, i want the Specialist Doctor added. But need DH's response also.

I have tried and failed to add the doctor specialist. It appears under the resource list and can not be used. That i why I need to get the full Specialist Stacker mod in.

Thunderbrd · Oct 8, 2011

Interesting discussion above... I'm wondering and will be looking now at my game to see if Nobles are offering general gpp pts (which would be cool) vs great artist pts that they seemed to always used to provide.

Ok, I came here to say that I don't feel engineers are getting a good deal. At some tech or building, these guys REALLY need to be given the opportunity to maintain their superiority in productivity. With buildings giving added production to prophets they get obsoleted despite wanting to use them for generating an Engineer for the eventual corporate need. This makes it a sacrifice to use them at all and I don't think that's fair to the engineer, who already struggles with having no civic I've ever used to make them come up in an unlimited quantity.

For specific suggestions on this, I'll have to do further analysis, but if anyone can think of an appropriate spot to add a + :hammers:

bonus for them (possibly even two steps given the strength of mines these days) it could expediate things.

EldrinFal · Oct 12, 2011

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17589

Recent code posted on forums to add various yields to specialists through Civics.

Nevets_ · Oct 12, 2011

What about increasing specialist yields through techs? If improvements get better yields as you discover techs, it makes sense that specialists would too.

I think it would be best to come at it from two directions if possible. Techs make specialists 'better', while civics make specialists 'different'. So technology increases the specialist's primary yield: + :hammers:

for engineer, + :culture:

for artist, + :espionage:

for spy, etc. Civic choice adds or changes a specialist's other yields, so for example Divine Cult gives priests + :gold:

-

, State Religion could give priests + :hammers:

-

, Free Religion gives priests + :culture:

-

.

You could also probably get rid of some redundant specialists like celebrities by using this, if by the time you get access to movie theaters / Hollywood artists are giving you 4 or 5 culture / gold you don't really need a different kind of specialist.

Thunderbrd · Oct 12, 2011

Nice thinking guys. And that last thought was the coolest because opening up slots like nobles and celebrities would open up slots for other good ideas like the military instructor, farmer, doctor.

I think it might be good for Artists to generate a

at a point too... make them requisite to keep the city happy and they will gladly corrupt the GP% towards the less useful Great Artist.

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 13, 2011

Thunderbrd said:
Nice thinking guys. And that last thought was the coolest because opening up slots like nobles and celebrities would open up slots for other good ideas like the military instructor, farmer, doctor.

I think it might be good for Artists to generate a at a point too... make them requisite to keep the city happy and they will gladly corrupt the GP% towards the less useful Great Artist.

Don't forget, I have almost gotten a second column of specialists to work! I should get it in for v19.

Thunderbrd · Oct 13, 2011

Really? I couldn't have forgotten because I didn't know you were working on that... wicked stuff DH!

So perhaps we should switch the Noble over from Artist pts to Merchant pts. This would make a lot more sense from the perspective that:
1) Nobles tend to produce a lot of gold
2) Merchants are more needed than most GPs when attempting to prepare for corporations (there are a lot of corps that require merchants... very few require artists)

Either that or we should be looking to figure out how to define a few new types of GPs such as Great Noble...

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