psychodation
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 78
AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
true!
after years i finally READ the list of scenarios.
thanx...
true!
after years i finally READ the list of scenarios.
thanx...
King of the World #21: Charlemagne
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
I checked the save. Here are the valuable information i could extract:
Cordoba is not a good target at all. Probably the most defended city in the world
charlemagne have the lowest power in the known world except england.
Justinian army is the bigest but with a lot of area to cover with defence: his attacking army is exausted and will not continue his advance.
England have nation to be traded (IMHO to be trade after liberalism discovery)
Charlemagne is the only one with education (In France, we say he have invented school, so it's logical ^^ ) and nobody is researching for it.
most of neal troops are in cairo.
Mecca is defended by a lone pikemen and an injured knight but saladin have no gaz left.
the biggest army in central asia is spanish (jerusalem)
next turn:
It is a apostolic decret time (turn spain out of war?)
France get gunpowder (time for trade ours?)
with those data in hand, i would try to put spain out of war. try to help saladin taking back mecca (ruin the road for supply chain of justinian), then take back mecca and whole ariabia and babylone (or whatever his name in this game).
for research, finish economy, trade philosophy with gunpowder then go for liberalism for print press (or chemistry as you feel)
EDIT: grab steel with liberalism was doable if you didn't went for economics but now it's probably too late
Cordoba is not a good target at all. Probably the most defended city in the world
charlemagne have the lowest power in the known world except england.
Justinian army is the bigest but with a lot of area to cover with defence: his attacking army is exausted and will not continue his advance.
England have nation to be traded (IMHO to be trade after liberalism discovery)
Charlemagne is the only one with education (In France, we say he have invented school, so it's logical ^^ ) and nobody is researching for it.
most of neal troops are in cairo.
Mecca is defended by a lone pikemen and an injured knight but saladin have no gaz left.
the biggest army in central asia is spanish (jerusalem)
next turn:
It is a apostolic decret time (turn spain out of war?)
France get gunpowder (time for trade ours?)
with those data in hand, i would try to put spain out of war. try to help saladin taking back mecca (ruin the road for supply chain of justinian), then take back mecca and whole ariabia and babylone (or whatever his name in this game).
for research, finish economy, trade philosophy with gunpowder then go for liberalism for print press (or chemistry as you feel)
EDIT: grab steel with liberalism was doable if you didn't went for economics but now it's probably too late
So it looks like Economics was my blunder of the round. Kinda funny. It felt like a bit of a vanity pick, like I was going for the shiny Great Merchant over stuff I'd actually needed, but I thought that I'd made bigger mistakes than that 
Oh, well. We'll let the dice fall where they may, and if the Holy Roman Empire falls because Charlemagne was too busy counting coins, so be it.
I'd made the same mistake the first time I tried to start up this game. I thought I was the only one
Oh, well. We'll let the dice fall where they may, and if the Holy Roman Empire falls because Charlemagne was too busy counting coins, so be it.AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
true!
after years i finally READ the list of scenarios.
thanx...
I'd made the same mistake the first time I tried to start up this game. I thought I was the only one
don't get wrong, economic is a strong choice too. There was just a possibility to cheat even more (gunpowder with oracle dude ! )
with free specialists and representation, you can expect to get back the lost beaker in 36-50 turns, not that bad.
That's all i like about civilisation: you have so many possibilities. There is mutch more that only one path to victory ^^
EDIT: i tried to get chemistry then liberalism from 1400, i lost the race by 2 turns to justinian.
Saladin never recover mecca.
bagdad could be taken with some preparations (pikemens are missing)
I still don't know witch path follow from this point...
the culture war in europe seems tempting...
with free specialists and representation, you can expect to get back the lost beaker in 36-50 turns, not that bad.
That's all i like about civilisation: you have so many possibilities. There is mutch more that only one path to victory ^^
EDIT: i tried to get chemistry then liberalism from 1400, i lost the race by 2 turns to justinian.
Saladin never recover mecca.
bagdad could be taken with some preparations (pikemens are missing)
I still don't know witch path follow from this point...
the culture war in europe seems tempting...
Mousey_Commander
Chieftain
Your best bet is either to unite Europe then attack Justinian, or get cannons or rifles (or both).
NoSuchName
Chieftain
I played around a bit with Charlemagne here (not from the save though) and found that Landsknechts were really good city takers when combined with siege. Siege attacks inevitably goes against the LBows first, weakening them significantly. Then the LKs draws the second-best defenders which, due to their huge bonus against knights, typically are macemen or pikemen.
The huge difference between them and normal pikes is that they slaughter maces and fortified pikes, while normal pikemen are chanceless against defending maces. The bonus makes a way bigger difference than it's usually credited for, actually. You'll need knights to round out the army due to their higher strength and greater ability to handle archers, especially as the flanking promotions lets them harass the longbows.
The huge difference between them and normal pikes is that they slaughter maces and fortified pikes, while normal pikemen are chanceless against defending maces. The bonus makes a way bigger difference than it's usually credited for, actually. You'll need knights to round out the army due to their higher strength and greater ability to handle archers, especially as the flanking promotions lets them harass the longbows.
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
Truly, you are history's greatest monster.
...or at least that's what a lot of people are hoping to see in the next round.
...or at least that's what a lot of people are hoping to see in the next round.
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
You really do have to have the energy to keep pace.
Save looks like you're doing a pretty nice job of it, though! It's pretty hilarious how...
Spoiler :
Looking forward to the write-up, but of course take your time with it.
WelshGandalf
King
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2010
- Messages
- 743
Hey The Oz-man, maybe he'd post if you post your next Sitting Bill turns I keep checking this forum just for those two threads
(Do take your time, I really mean that, it's just ironic to me that you're posting in the "wrong" thread as far as I'm concerned!)
I keep checking this forum just for those two threads (Do take your time, I really mean that, it's just ironic to me that you're posting in the "wrong" thread as far as I'm concerned!)
The Holy Roman Empire stretched from the snowy shores of Denmark to the blazing deserts of Abyssinia. Charlemagne's people were happy and prosperous, wanting for nothing. His borders were secure, as his neighbors were brothers and sisters in the faith. The peace was such that he was permitted to pursue such vanity projects as Economics. A Great Spy was born in Rome, the lowliest of Great People (a sign of the Emperor's lackadaisical attitude toward Specialist management). This was no major trouble, though, since he could pair with the upcoming Great Merchant for a Golden Age. Life was good.
But in Charlemagne's heart there burned a dark fire. The Holy Roman Empire called for the training of troops and the building of siege engines across the land. Some recruits were ferried across the Mediterranean to Cairo. Others met in a new staging ground southeast of Salzburg. The Christian world welcomed this, as it surely meant a new Crusade against the heretic Arabs. Byzantine and Holy Roman troops crossed the border freely, exchanging songs and tall tales about their homelands. Only the nobility of Bremen knew the true purpose behind the muster.
By the middle of the 15th century, our Scandinavian Knights had fully recovered their strength in the friendlier southern reaches of the peninsula.They were, once again, sent northwards to Uppsala, which was defended by nearly twice their number in fierce, bearded Longbowmen. It was a risky maneuver, but luck was with them that day and, after a pair of easier-than-expected victories, their ultimate success was assured:
Meanwhile, Russia had declared war on the Arab remnant and France sounded the horn against the blighted Mali. The Russo-Arab war might result in some real battles, but Louis' declaration was likely mere posturing. As far as Charlemagne was concerned, Mansa Musa was welcome to his African prison.
The fall of Uppsala spelled the end of Ragnar's defiance. The army arrayed against him consisted of a mere two squadrons of Knights, true, but he had been reduced to two cities and was a prime target for Peter the Great. The Viking Overlord sent ships loaded with the greatest treasures of his people to Bremen, and promised Charlemagne obeisance in all things:
... The Viking treasury didn't need a lot of ships, mind. Charlemagne accepted the offer graciously, and reinstated Ragnar's jarl in Uppsala. The city would serve better as part of a cohesive empire, and the gift served to bring our northern vassal's attitude back to Cautious.
With that situation secure, and with Economics ready for completion, Charlemagne decided to finish laying the groundwork for Liberalism and what would come after:
In this Before Time, with The Great Betrayal not yet underway, Justinian considered himself a loyal friend. For Charlemagne's part, the Holy Roman research machine was stronger than England's, and it would be bolstered by a Golden Age, besides. Elizabeth's price was high, but Printing Press would provide a small boost to our economy, as well as opening Replaceable Parts as our Liberalism tech. It's not quite Rifling, but it'll do.
Around this time, word reached Bremen that Saladin, in a last, desperate push, had retaken Mecca. This pleased Charlemagne. So long as Justinian warred, Justinian was weak. Or at least weaker. The "wars" against the Mali, meanwhile, had badly rattled Mansa Musa, and he offered to prostrate himself to the Holy Roman crown:
We respectfully declined. We already have one diplomatic albatross in the form of Ragnar hanging from our necks. We don't need another.
The Spaniards, meanwhile, finally finished their Reconquista in 1505:
Isabella's a little behind there, but she can be forgiven. After all, I don't think the historical Muslims defended Cordoba quite that tenaciously.
By 1510, our troops were ready. It would be a two-pronged pincer attack, north through the Holy Land and eastward through the Balkans. We had lost the Apostolic Palace to Elizabeth, which could be troublesome, but if defying the Holy See was the price of doing business, so be it:
Justinian, so used to the intrigues of Constantinople, was not wholly taken aback by our declaration of war. Indeed, he had likely been considering an offensive of his own. But our powerful culture had done its work, pushing our borders deep into Byzantine territory. Jerusalem's attackers needed a turn to set up, but Dyrrachium's walls were assaulted almost before the horns had finished sounding.
The cities fell quickly:
Jerusalem's wealth (complete with Market!) would prove most useful. Dyrrachium, though, was merely a staging ground for attacks on the far more valuable Athens and Constantinople.
This assault would prove trickier than Charlemagne had first anticipated, though. Justinian launched a heavy counterattack on the Balkan city, forcing us to withdraw and regroup. The assault had served its purpose, though, allowing us to sneak a force through to the gates of Athens:
At this point, Charlemagne was forced to consider his Balkan pincer expended. Athens could be taken, after a long siege, and Dyrrachium could be recaptured, but Constantinople was likely beyond our reach.
In 1530, as the war ground on, we were indeed the first to reach Liberalism:
Nationalism and Chemistry are starting to show up on the trade charts, so I went with the most expensive monopoly tech on the board. And this lets us launch into the game-changing Rifling tech.
By 1545, Athens was finally ours:
Turkey's culture is a beast, though. The borders barely changed with the taking of Athens and the retaking of Dyrrachium, which we did in 1550.
But our forces are exhausted and we need to regroup. Oh, and if we don't take peace now, we're losing Jerusalem:
So with that I think it's time to end both the war and the round. Justinian has been intermittently willing to talk, so I stopped the round at a point that he's willing to call off the dogs.
And he's willing to pay quite handsomely for peace, as well:
I don't know if that's the *best* deal we can get out of him, but it seems pretty darn good to me. I'll let the rest of you determine whether there's something better.
So here's a look at the world as we know it:
And the Diplomatic and Tech screens:
I don't see many no-brainer trades on the board. So what should the plan be? Rearm and hit Justinian again? Wipe him out? He's no longer the major rival he used to be, so maybe we should go after Russia instead? Or take the Middle East from Saladin? I am, as always, open to suggestions.
The save is upthread a bit.
But in Charlemagne's heart there burned a dark fire. The Holy Roman Empire called for the training of troops and the building of siege engines across the land. Some recruits were ferried across the Mediterranean to Cairo. Others met in a new staging ground southeast of Salzburg. The Christian world welcomed this, as it surely meant a new Crusade against the heretic Arabs. Byzantine and Holy Roman troops crossed the border freely, exchanging songs and tall tales about their homelands. Only the nobility of Bremen knew the true purpose behind the muster.
By the middle of the 15th century, our Scandinavian Knights had fully recovered their strength in the friendlier southern reaches of the peninsula.They were, once again, sent northwards to Uppsala, which was defended by nearly twice their number in fierce, bearded Longbowmen. It was a risky maneuver, but luck was with them that day and, after a pair of easier-than-expected victories, their ultimate success was assured:
Meanwhile, Russia had declared war on the Arab remnant and France sounded the horn against the blighted Mali. The Russo-Arab war might result in some real battles, but Louis' declaration was likely mere posturing. As far as Charlemagne was concerned, Mansa Musa was welcome to his African prison.
The fall of Uppsala spelled the end of Ragnar's defiance. The army arrayed against him consisted of a mere two squadrons of Knights, true, but he had been reduced to two cities and was a prime target for Peter the Great. The Viking Overlord sent ships loaded with the greatest treasures of his people to Bremen, and promised Charlemagne obeisance in all things:
... The Viking treasury didn't need a lot of ships, mind. Charlemagne accepted the offer graciously, and reinstated Ragnar's jarl in Uppsala. The city would serve better as part of a cohesive empire, and the gift served to bring our northern vassal's attitude back to Cautious.
With that situation secure, and with Economics ready for completion, Charlemagne decided to finish laying the groundwork for Liberalism and what would come after:
In this Before Time, with The Great Betrayal not yet underway, Justinian considered himself a loyal friend. For Charlemagne's part, the Holy Roman research machine was stronger than England's, and it would be bolstered by a Golden Age, besides. Elizabeth's price was high, but Printing Press would provide a small boost to our economy, as well as opening Replaceable Parts as our Liberalism tech. It's not quite Rifling, but it'll do.
Around this time, word reached Bremen that Saladin, in a last, desperate push, had retaken Mecca. This pleased Charlemagne. So long as Justinian warred, Justinian was weak. Or at least weaker. The "wars" against the Mali, meanwhile, had badly rattled Mansa Musa, and he offered to prostrate himself to the Holy Roman crown:
We respectfully declined. We already have one diplomatic albatross in the form of Ragnar hanging from our necks. We don't need another.
The Spaniards, meanwhile, finally finished their Reconquista in 1505:
Isabella's a little behind there, but she can be forgiven. After all, I don't think the historical Muslims defended Cordoba quite that tenaciously.
By 1510, our troops were ready. It would be a two-pronged pincer attack, north through the Holy Land and eastward through the Balkans. We had lost the Apostolic Palace to Elizabeth, which could be troublesome, but if defying the Holy See was the price of doing business, so be it:
Justinian, so used to the intrigues of Constantinople, was not wholly taken aback by our declaration of war. Indeed, he had likely been considering an offensive of his own. But our powerful culture had done its work, pushing our borders deep into Byzantine territory. Jerusalem's attackers needed a turn to set up, but Dyrrachium's walls were assaulted almost before the horns had finished sounding.
The cities fell quickly:
Jerusalem's wealth (complete with Market!) would prove most useful. Dyrrachium, though, was merely a staging ground for attacks on the far more valuable Athens and Constantinople.
This assault would prove trickier than Charlemagne had first anticipated, though. Justinian launched a heavy counterattack on the Balkan city, forcing us to withdraw and regroup. The assault had served its purpose, though, allowing us to sneak a force through to the gates of Athens:
At this point, Charlemagne was forced to consider his Balkan pincer expended. Athens could be taken, after a long siege, and Dyrrachium could be recaptured, but Constantinople was likely beyond our reach.
In 1530, as the war ground on, we were indeed the first to reach Liberalism:
Nationalism and Chemistry are starting to show up on the trade charts, so I went with the most expensive monopoly tech on the board. And this lets us launch into the game-changing Rifling tech.
By 1545, Athens was finally ours:
Turkey's culture is a beast, though. The borders barely changed with the taking of Athens and the retaking of Dyrrachium, which we did in 1550.
But our forces are exhausted and we need to regroup. Oh, and if we don't take peace now, we're losing Jerusalem:
So with that I think it's time to end both the war and the round. Justinian has been intermittently willing to talk, so I stopped the round at a point that he's willing to call off the dogs.
And he's willing to pay quite handsomely for peace, as well:
I don't know if that's the *best* deal we can get out of him, but it seems pretty darn good to me. I'll let the rest of you determine whether there's something better.
So here's a look at the world as we know it:
And the Diplomatic and Tech screens:
I don't see many no-brainer trades on the board. So what should the plan be? Rearm and hit Justinian again? Wipe him out? He's no longer the major rival he used to be, so maybe we should go after Russia instead? Or take the Middle East from Saladin? I am, as always, open to suggestions.
The save is upthread a bit.
Saru
Warlord
With Peter at war with Saladin, I don't think he will backstab you at this point.
I say take peace, get rifling, build a force of knights, rifles and trebs and re-declare.
I say take peace, get rifling, build a force of knights, rifles and trebs and re-declare.
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
I see what you did there.
Nice round!
Ridiculously, you can't get Nationalism off of Justinian in the peace negotiations, but he will give it to you after peace if you give him Liberalism and Economics. I think Nationalism is a priority tech to get (since it leads to MT and will let you upgrade those Knights into Cavalry), so I would personally take that trade since it's not giving Justinian the prerequisites for anything too dangerous. Declaring peace will put him back up to Cautious, so you actually didn't do him too bad by destroying his western core and capturing the holy city of his faith from him, which is pretty excellent.
I'd shoot for finishing Justinian off in a later war by any means necessary (destruction or capitulation are both okay options). If you war with Peter, you don't want to run the risk of a backstab and a two-front war. Justinian, though, has a powerful UU with a decent lifespan; he wouldn't be too bad of a war ally. However, unless I'm misreading the screens (didn't you previously use BUG?), Justinian only has three cities left, so he might be worth killing altogether.
Personally, I'd unite the good and decent peoples of the Christian faith under your banner totally before going after Saladin and unleashing the hordes all at once. It shouldn't be too hard to rush east from there and conquer everyone else in your path. France is the most obvious target after Justinian, but if you think that's too cheesy (and want to keep with the theme of "reforming" the Eastern Orthodox types), Peter wouldn't be too bad, either.
Barring some upheaval, I think you've won, but it's probably going to be a real knock-down drag-out win.
Hey The Oz-man, maybe he'd post if you post your next Sitting Bill turns
(Do take your time, I really mean that, it's just ironic to me that you're posting in the "wrong" thread as far as I'm concerned!)
Ha!
I'm going to replay the last round I played (I got some good advice after I'd already played the round). It'll go up in the next couple of days.
Coffee Mug
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 89
Excellent round.
Nail some theses to a church door in Bremen, and then go reform Paris.
Nail some theses to a church door in Bremen, and then go reform Paris.
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
We'll be both Catholic and Protestant at the same time and maybe possibly Mormons should we hit Monty and Pacal!
NapoleonThePig
Chieftain
Actually, the reconquista didn't finish until 1492. She's not far off.
very good turn (especialy to deal with vikings with only 2 knights ^^ )
I'd say grab your 10 turn peace (his world map is probably is best treasure)
Riffling come in 9 turns, I think it is a sign of what to do next
finish completely justinian (only 3 cities) and then turn on saladin. mecca and bagdad are nice to have, and a second betrayal seems dangerous at this stage.
I'll check the save tonight for cultural pressure on barcelona, marseilles and paris (will they flip one day?) and power ratings.
I'd say grab your 10 turn peace (his world map is probably is best treasure)
Riffling come in 9 turns, I think it is a sign of what to do next
finish completely justinian (only 3 cities) and then turn on saladin. mecca and bagdad are nice to have, and a second betrayal seems dangerous at this stage.
I'll check the save tonight for cultural pressure on barcelona, marseilles and paris (will they flip one day?) and power ratings.
