King of the World #21: Charlemagne

Peace makes a lot of sense here, then turn your troups on Saladin after regrouping. It'll do Wonders for the economy, even though his land isn't that great. Drive him into Persia, those hill cities aren't worth the trouble.
Dual shrines in Jerusalem, the Masjid al-Haram in Mecca and the Spiral Minaret in Baghdad will likely let you run 100% science and still make a decent profit. The latter two aren't half-bad terrainwise either. Sohar isn't that great a city, but double seafood and deer makes it useful in your specialist economy - it more than pays for itself.

A religious economy seems really easy to set up from there, as a strong complement to the specialists you're already working. I actually see no reason to turn back against Justinian unless he grabs a key city from Saladin.
 
after examination of the save:
your army is deeply wounded but in great number. good stuff here (2nd in power)
justinian army is dead. he is still at war with saladin, he will be broken even more with saladin army on it's way.
i understand why you considered about not having peace with justinian but if you don't take it, jerusalem will be lost. And jerusalem worth thoses 10 turns (where justinian army will suffer and yours heal)

After thoses turns, you will have the choice between going to justinian or saladin.
I agree that saladin have better cities left while justinian have less interting ones.
However, to get to saladin, your supply line go throught justinian land. for me erase justinian, enable a clean empire with clear supply lines and no cultural pressure from other countries (athene will suffer).
furthermore, justinian army will be mutch easier to break than saladin one.

for research, it's no brainer: riffle then cavalery or cannon (your choice)
for production, i advice to continue culture war against france and spain. build theater and universities during peace time in your 3 starting cities for this goal.
barcelona will turn in time...
france will be harder...

good job here
 
Arright, arright. The round is played. I remember why I love this game so much. The writeup'll take some time. I'm hoping for sometime tomorrow.
 
I feel like that's how it should be. Jerusalem is The Prize on E1000, and so it should be taken and retaken half a dozen times or so. After all, even discounting its value as a city (which, I admit, isn't much), those shrines add up to 50+ gold per turn, which, honestly, if you can't leverage that, you're doing something wrong. On a standard E18 map, Paris is usually The Prize (assuming Eurasia doesn't turn into a One True Faith lovefest) after Louis pretties it up with more Wonders than any one city deserves. So it's nice to see another location get all the attention.
 
Huh? Hah? Whuzzah? I'm awake! I'm awake. Sorry, guys, but life (oh, and Skyrim) has gotten in the way.

you openned skyrim. :)
hard to close it isn't it? great game.

didn't look at the save yep, i'm burning to see the writeup ^^
 
After doing what you did ( no spoilers of me in here :p ) I think that you should clean Western Europe before they start to go to the Americas, especially France ( really you should had captured Visegard too in t1 :p .... it is definitely feasible ). Then go Russia , that is one of the contenders for the Big Boss in E1000 ( the other is , unsurprisingly , China ).

You are definitely in a good position. Keep up the good work. Oh and [self-promo plugin] if you want to see what is like being on Saladin side , click here [/self-promo plugin] :devil:
 
The Holy Roman Imperial Army was stretched thin in its war against the Byzantines. Jerusalem was desperately holding out with a few rickety siege engines against the remnants of Justinian's forces. Dyrrachium was secure, but we lacked the manpower to push into Turkey. The tide was turning in the East's favor. But, still, Justinian knew that his production was shattered; he had been reduced from a world power to an also-ran, and he needed to regroup almost as badly as Charlemagne did. It was clearly time for peace:

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In the aftermath of the war, Constantinople even traded knowledge of Nationalism in exchange for Printing Press and Economics. Charlemagne's ambassador blustered on about economic development on the Anatolian peninsula, but back home, the new knowledge was put to good use. The draft was instituted, Barracks became symbols of strength and security, and the Taj Mahal began construction in Bremen.

Reinforcements were shuttled through our Apostolic Palace-mandated open borders with Justinian to reinforce Jerusalem and a new offensive force was mustered in Dyrrachium. This new stack even included a long-overdue Great Medic:

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Meanwhile, our contact with the far east allowed us to win a few easy gold from China in exchange for Literature. This, along with the consolation prize from losing the race to the Taj Mahal (once again, China, ladies and gentlemen!) would be most helpful in upgrading a few select City Raider Macemen into Riflemen. Qin Shi Huang also traded us exotic resources for the happiness and health of our people. All was not happy news, though. Jerusalem chafed under Charlemagne's rule, casting the city into revolt as the city's elite demanded a return to Byzantium. Mansa Musa once again offered his nation as a vassal state but was once again rejected on the grounds that he would be a diplomatic liability. And Saladin, blustering Saladin, once again demanded that the Holy Roman Empire convert to Islam. I don't think he get's the whole "Holy Roman" part of the equation.

Tubruq was founded to cement our control over the western Mediterranean:

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I doubt that it'll amount to much, but it shouldn't cost us much, either. We should at least break even on it.

By 1610, Charlemagne revealed himself once again. In what few Byzantine histories remain, he is known as "Charles Twice-Betrayer."

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With Riflemen in our corner, this war would prove much less tedious. That's not to say it did not lack for surprises.

For instance, Justinian's brother in Orthodoxy joined in the fray:

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And made a reasonable push for Danzig:

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But Peter was quickly beaten back and ended up paying a small sum of gold for the privilege of backing out of the conflict.

The real conflict was on the Bosphorus:

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When I say that this second war was less tedious, I don't mean that it was completely eithout tedium. That culture bonus would still take some time to pull down with my undersized force of Trebuchets. And no, that Spanish stack isn't part of our war. Isabella is, once again, at war with the Arabs.

While our troops camped outside the gates of Constantinople, watching as their siege weapons methodically pounded the walls, Bremen's diplomats were busy obtaining Chemistry for a surprisingly reasonable price:

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This allowed us to jump right into Steel as our next research target. No more slow Trebuchets!

By 1635, Constantinople (no, never Istanbul) finally fell, guaranteeing our control of the Balkans:

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At this point, Justinian recognized that his cause was well and truly lost. He offered to capitulate, swearing fealty in all things. Charlemagne remembered the Jerusalem revolts, though, and hardened his heart. Byzantine culture was a stain upon the map. It was a stain that needed to be purged.

But there was other news in the world. Our friend the Lady Elizabeth pulled us into war with the Arabs (we would have to come to blows with them eventually, anyway) and then, as Pope, she declared a Crusade against the heathen Mali. So we found ourselves in a war on three fronts, but Mansa Musa is no warrior, and Saladin is likely preoccupied with that massive Spanish stack rampaging through his lands. Also, due to our *ahem* incredible luck at being the first to find the one nautical path across the Americas via the Tierra del Fuego, we were also the first to prove that the world is round:

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I don't know why I pursue that accomplishment every game, especially when I'm quite content to be a landlocked power. It denies the bonus to the seagoers, I suppose...

By 1660, the Byzantine emperor was clearly in a state of checkmate. His empire, diminished to two Turkish cities, was filled with Charlemagne's Riflemen. He begged for peace, but he had nothing to offer. Charlemagne took little pleasure in crushing his eastern neighbor, but I took quite a bit in it :)

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So there it goes. The civ that I'd meant to choose ended up being the first to truly die.

This seemed, obviously, a good place to end the round and seek direction. Our stranglehold on Rifling is secure:

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Not only does nobody else have it, nobody else has Replaceable Parts! So we're clearly in a place of overwhelming strength. How best to leverage it? Do we finally put Saladin out of his misery? Take out Mansa Musa and claim Africa as our own? Go crazy and try to reclaim the crown of Caesar? We can do anything we want at this point, so what sounds like the most fun?

Our army isn't huge at the moment, but we have more than enough Production to make it so if we want:

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So there it is. Sorry again for the delay. I'll try to get another round done this weekend to make up for it. Thoughts?
 
Yes! Update! I didn't bother to open the save, and I heard something spectacular happened. Going to find out now.
EDIT: Taking on Louis (Paris :drool:) and Izzy will be relatively easy, especially with rifles (and possible cannons). Then turn on Peter, take his Western Russian cities and capitulate him.
 
Go fight a land war in Asia.

Geez, he just fought one in Asia Minor, give a guy a break. :p

(ALTERNATE JOKE: We have already won because we've claimed Sicily, and you know what happens when you go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line.)

I'd keep Mansa around. He's not going to do anything to you, and at the very least you should be able to easily get him back up to tech-trading level.

I can't shake this feeling that China is going to be a total monster by the time you hit Qin if you don't do something soon. Mongolia has a difficulty level advantage but little else. Meanwhile, there's yet another double holy city in India that will net you even more juicy shrine income, so a sweep east (through Saladin of course) might not be a bad idea.

On the other hand, Peter didn't seem to understand the nature of our divine crusade against the heathen Eastern Orthodox Church, so he's probably due to be taught a lesson in true Christian piety.

The biggest reason not to take Europe is that they aren't close to Rifles, but they do have Grenadiers. You can compensate for that by building lots of Cannons, but stack protection is still going to be touchy. Of course, Peter doesn't have Military Science yet... ;)
 
Stack protection is not such of a big issue , since both Louis and Izzy have their army elsewhere ... and you can beat that with numbers easily ... OTOH you probably are in the best window to deal with the other Euros : before Peter gets really dangerous and before they start going to the Americas/Madagascar ( otherwise you can get them getting vassals of Monty and feeding him techs ... )

China will be a issue , obviously. They do not seem to be very dented by the mongol starting invasion ( I've seen the mongols lucking out in Korea and then becoming a really counterweight against China until they peacevassaled to Peter in RR10 , the E1000 game where I've seen the worst Chinese performance not due to human intervention ), so they are dangerous. OTOH they seem to not have started dominating the area by vassaling the neighbourhood ( Khmer is a normal victim ). But I would not consider dealing with China before rails due to the distances involved. The map is big and it is unlikely you would get to China borders before anyway ...
 
At some point you should consider India; I read through r_rolo1's succession game (to which he linked earlier) and found out that Benares is another great prize: a double-shrine city with lots of resources. It was the right target for Saladin early in that game. I don't know enough about how urgent it would be in your game compared with other more dangerous targets.
 
Benares is a rich prize ( a far better city than Jerusalem , if you ask me ), but there are not much of civs that can capture it fast due to distance and geography . Of the immediate neighbours China will start busy with the Mongol invasion, Khmer starts nomad and will need a lot of time to clean the jungle out of SE Asia ... this pretty much leaves Arabia as the only civ that can attack India fruitfully early, and the Arabian AI normally freaks out with the issues in the west ending sending the troops that it has near India away...

Other issue is the geography. India can't be attacked by the north due to mountains, leaving the NW and NE routes to attack or the sea. For the NE route you need to deal with China and the Khmer ( besides dealing with very rough terrain ), for the NW one you need to deal with Sal through also very rough terrain and the seaborne invasion is normally inferior to any of those due to the extra hammers needed for the transports + cover .... and to the European civs it would need either a Suez or a Cape/Horn trip if you don't want to kill Sal ( or a similar trip through the Mallaca strait ( or even more to the south if you don't have OB with the Khmer ) if you don't want to deal with the Khmer/China ).

This means that Benares, in spite of being a very decent prize, due to the map constraints it normally can't be conquered without dealing with some heavy limitations compared with stomping some nearer neighbours unless you are playing with Arabia ( or China if you curb the Mongols fast )

In here ... I agree with Neal's approach to this. There is no point in overstretching the empire with so much good land nearby ... and the land to get to India is quite subpar between Baghdad and India proper. Also you need to deal with Bizantium before going east, either by vassaling them or by killing them ... If any further action is to be done east of Jerusalem now IMHO it would be capturing Baghdad and Mecca. Oh , and making a Suez fort on that desert hill to allow the future Med frigates to go bomb whatever he wants to bomb in the East :p
 
Here's a relevant question: has anyone settled the New World yet? That's the best reason I can think of for smashing the European powers right now: not having to chase them all over the map for centuries. Maybe trade for maps and/or check cities available for trade to see how they match up with what you already know about in Europe?
 
No Euros have settled outside of Europe : the city count on the diplo window coincides with the visible cities in the Old World for all of them. The Chinese/Japanese/Khmer/Indians/Koreans/Mongols ... none has Astro. So, I'm 100% sure that , at this moment, there are no non-American civs in the Americas.

OFC that they might settle in this very IBT though :/ EDIT: In fact, as we speak Liz has a galleon and a settler in London, and Louis and Izzy both have galleons already built.
 
Time for Europe to die. How can you think of going further abroad when your repressive bordering monarchs deny their people knowledge of such basic essentials as Replaceable Parts? It would be inhumane to leave those cities in their current hands.
 
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