Specialists

The food and happiness policies in Freedom were the ones that arguably most needed the nerf. The tree was enjoyable as the "specialist tree" and now - as Ahriman and others have mentioned - it is somewhat directionless. I think Freedom was just a little too powerful before, and needed a smallish nerf to the food/happiness policies or a later era-unlock. Switching the way the specialist-boosting SPs work (as you have) would've a fine start without redistributing the policies.
Agreed.

I also preferred the CS production SP in Order, both flavor-wise and because a wide empire will generally have more income to devote to allying CSs - gold is often at a premium when playing small and tall
I don't like it much with Order either, but it is less harmful in Order, because you can leave it till last if you don't want it and because, as you say, you're much more likely to have spare gold to throw at things.

Overall would you say 1 or 0.5 is more useful?
I would have the happiness booster be 3 picks in, I think this is a good rule of thumb for all policy trees.

In landlocked or pangaea conquest games the Merchant Navy policy is not useful
Yes, and this is very unfortunate, and would make me less likely to pursue Commerce in a landlocked game, which I never play personally, because I don't like all land maps.

One primary goal with policies is for every tree to be somewhat useful for most strategies, and most useful for some strategies.
I think it is just fine for particular trees to be structured around particular strategies. I don't think it is important for every tree to be worth taking with every different playstyle.

If I understand the second part correctly, do you feel when one policy is not useful, the tree as a whole is not useful?
I think that when one policy becomes totally useless in some circumstances, then that dramatically reduces the flexibility of the tree. Your claim was that putting a city state policy into Freedom made Freedom more flexible. It doesn't. It makes Freedom less flexible.

Reformation and Free Religion policies are not useful for a militaristic game
Sure they are, more golden ages are always nice. Whereas a city-state strategy is *completely useless* without city states.
But more to the point, a militaristic game (ie "game where I have wars") is much broader than a city state strategy, which is very narrow.
 
Increasing flexibility of the Freedom tree was not a goal for moving the citystate policy, nor did I intend to imply that. I detailed reasons for the move in the Policies thread: this post

I think the conversation about the Freedom tree is getting a little muddled with it going on in two different threads. Let's focus talk about it in the policies thread. Posting an update about the Garden here was mostly intended to explain the resolution of this older discussion. :)
 
I think the conversation about the Freedom tree is getting a little muddled with it going on in two different threads. Let's focus talk about it in the policies thread.

Moderator Action: What he said :yup:. 2 posts moved to the policies thread.
 
[Preamble: There has been some discussion on the Opportunities thread about yield values and specialists, specifically VEM's goal of having 1:c5production:=1:c5culture:=1:c5science:=1:c5gold:. So instead of posting there and diluting the discussion more, I'll post my thoughts here.]

I've found that different yields have different values throughout the course of a game (and to a lesser degree depend on VC/playstyle). For example, I played the Ottoman OCC save posted in the strat forum last night going for a cultural victory, and I valued yields like this: in the early game hammers>science>culture>everything else; in the mid game science>hammers>gold>everything else; in the late game culture>everything else. Clearly going for a science victory or domination would yield slightly different configurations, especially in the late game, but for the early/mid games, these values are more or less consistent for me regardless of the VC I'm going for.

culture is an unusual exception to the above rules because there's few sources of it from terrain. This means we could set artists to 2, in theory. The problem is the psychological effect it would have. I strongly suspect most people would infer artists are less powerful than other specialists if this change were made, since all the others give 3 yield and artists give 2. This might revert back to the unfortunate situation in vanilla where everyone avoided artists.

I wouldn't be opposed to making Artists generate 2 culture, considering that there are more Artist slots available for much of the game than any other type (right before winning I bought all available buildings in my city and had more Artists with 2-3 techs in the Modern era) and Landmarks yield 14 culture (is that intentional? I'm always surprised to see how much they yield). I think we could also change Scientists to 2 science.

I think Merchants should be raised to 4 Gold: I *never* work them unless I have a massive city with literally nothing else for my citizens to work, no matter how good Great Merchants are or how dire my economy is. Unfortunately, gold will never have the value of other yields without more pressing needs for spending it - I played half a game with v130 and found the very expensive RAs an excellent method of making gold more valuable (and was surprised to see it lowered again, tbh); making opportunities more expensive would help value gold as well.
 
I wouldn't be opposed to making Artists generate 2 culture, considering that there are more Artist slots available for much of the game than any other type (right before winning I bought all available buildings in my city and had more Artists with 2-3 techs in the Modern era) and Landmarks yield 14 culture (is that intentional? I'm always surprised to see how much they yield). I think we could also change Scientists to 2 science.

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting buffing scientists and nerfing artists? Why do something that seemingly exacerbates an imbalance?

I think Merchants should be raised to 4 Gold: I *never* work them unless I have a massive city with literally nothing else for my citizens to work, no matter how good Great Merchants are or how dire my economy is. Unfortunately, gold will never have the value of other yields without more pressing needs for spending it...

I almost never work them, despite realizing the very significant benefits of a trade mission. But it appeals to me enough theoretically that I'm not sure there's a problem here. (Keep in mind that just about no GP are used to "build" anything after a certain point - not just GM's and GA's.)

I played half a game with v130 and found the very expensive RAs an excellent method of making gold more valuable (and was surprised to see it lowered again, tbh); making opportunities more expensive would help value gold as well.

There was some issue with RA's being priced out of usage, but once Thal explained why it was done, I saw the upside of the original, higher cost boost. My only concern is that it may hurt tall civs too much, given their usual lower gold income and presumed need for RA's/DoF's.
 
there are more Artist slots available for much of the game than any other type
Every specialist should have an identical number of available slots, so if artists have more that's a bug. Another bug would be 14:c5culture: landmarks. The vanilla yield from landmarks is 6, and the Free Religion policy adds +2. I'm not sure what could be bringing it up to 14... under what circumstances have you seen this?

There are various effects that add +1 yield to tiles. These cannot be decimal or fractional values, so every yield must be equal, or as close to it as possible. If it's not equal we need to alter the importance of the yield. Since we can't change tile income, we must change expenses. The challenge is raising costs can have two effects:

  • Encourage us to get more gold (as Seek discussed)
  • Keep the same amount of gold, but buy less (as Txurce discussed)
If we also increase the rewards from such things to encourage us to get RAs, then we just end up multiplying both sides of the equation by the same value, which might or might not help.
 
The challenge is raising costs can have two effects:

  • Encourage us to get more gold (as Seek discussed)
  • Keep the same amount of gold, but buy less (as Txurce discussed)
If we also increase the rewards from such things to encourage us to get RAs, then we just end up multiplying both sides of the equation by the same value, which might or might not help.

I think your drift is that changing gold values probably won't get us anywhere, and I agree.
 
Both your and Seek's views are right. Let me phrase it another way... when we increase the cost of RAs, our choices might be:

  • Same quantity RAs, more merchants.
  • Same quantity merchants, fewer RAs.
Either approach keeps our net gold the same. :)

We've got this conversation about yields going on in several places, so to consolidate the topic, I've started a new thread. Let's continue the discussion there.
 
How about just making the Great Merchant more exciting/valuable? Here's a few suggestions:
  • Trade Missions to City-States give, say, 10 turns' worth of CS benefits (:c5food:, :c5culture:, or :c5war:units) right away.
    (The :c5gold:Gold and :c5influence:Influence could be lessened a bit to compensate.)
  • Give GMs (or all Great People) more :c5moves:movement to make getting to CSs less of a hassle.
  • A bit of instant :c5gold:gold from making a Customs House.
  • Alternatively, make Customs Houses buildable only on luxury (, strategic, and bonus?) resources, retaining the regular resource-accessing improvement intact but adding :c5gold: per turn to that tile instead of taking the place of another improvement. (This would have to be less than Customs Houses currently add, obviously, for balance.)


Every specialist should have an identical number of available slots, so if artists have more that's a bug.
Even including World Wonders?
 
Consider a chain of events:

  1. Great Merchants buffed.
  2. People build more Merchants.
  3. People have more gold to purchase the same amount of goods.
  4. The value of gold drops (#3 is the definition of inflation).
By making great merchants more valuable, we reduce the value of gold. This is why my past attempts at buffing merchants and great merchants failed. Inflation is a very counter-intuitive fact of life. :)

Every specialist should have an identical number of available slots, so if artists have more that's a bug.
Even including World Wonders?
Do you mean national wonders? There are 2 NWs for each specialist, with 1 slot apiece. Every specialist should have a maximum of 5 slots available in normal cities, and 7 in a city with both NWs. The specialist slots for non-wonder buildings were set in Sept 7's v107.1. If something does not match these numbers, please start a thread in the bug report forum:

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Sorry for being pedantic, but as an economist, I have to point out that inflation is, in fact, the rising of prices of goods and services. It has nothing to do, per se, with the money supply or value of a single unit of currency.

There's two issues here: 1:c5gold: is less valuable than 1:c5production: or 1:c5science: or 1:c5culture:, and Merchants are rarely worth employing. I was trying to deal with the second of these.


I did mean World Wonders, actually. I'm not sure what Seek meant by "there are more Artist slots available for much of the game than any other type," but a lot of WWs offer Artist slots, yes?
 
Could you help me clarify this? It's an important part of my balancing efforts, so I need to make sure I understand the concept right. :)

My info is just based on what they taught us in college:
When there is more money chasing the same amount of goods and services, there is inflation. This causes the price of the goods and services to rise. The source of inflation can be lumped into two general causes: caused by higher demand for good/services leading to higher prices, or caused by the government increasing the money supply, meaning the money can buy less.
Your suggestion is to encourage people to get more Great Merchants. As Seek pointed out earlier, people won't do that unless they see something valuable to spend the money on. Their suggestion is to raise the price on things like Research Agreements. This would mean we're increasing the money supply, prices are going up, and the buying power of one unit of gold decreases. Is this accurate?
 
You're right, this is confusing. After some consideration, here's my take:

By the time the mid-game rolls around, Gold is too easy to come by, and there are often relatively few things to spend it on. That is, Gold has too little value. The marginal value of Gold (how much would 1 more :c5gold: help me?) is too low. The budget constraint does not have enough "bite" (is not sufficiently binding). These are all different ways of saying the same thing.

The solution is to either
(1) make Gold harder to obtain by reducing tile yields or bonuses ("contract the money supply"), and/or
(2) make things [maintenance, units, RAs, etc.] more expensive ("raise prices").

The first makes Gold more valuable because in Civ, as in real life, the marginal value ("marginal utility," in economic terms) of money is declining: going from 0:c5gold: to 200:c5gold: is great, but going from 8000:c5gold: to 8200:c5gold: isn't much of an improvement at all. It's a bit trickier to see (hence the rest of this long post!), but the second makes Gold also more valuable – because you'll run out of it more quickly.

The thing is, Civ V does not represent or approximate a market system, so much of Econ 101 thinking doesn't apply. Prices in this game don't change as players' supply and demand change (except arguably with :c5influence:Influence for City-States, but not really even there – certainly not in practice in single-player games, since AIs hoard money for no reason). In fact, we're directly setting prices (doesn't happen in markets!). What's going on here? Here's a thought experiment:

A) Everything is free. Units cost 0:c5gold: each to buy, everything costs 0:c5gold: to maintain, etc. Obviously, here, each unit of :c5gold: is worthless, and having 500:c5gold: is just as good as having 50,000:c5gold:... if, for instance, we were suddenly offered the chance to give up 999:c5gold: for 1:c5science:, we'd do so in a heartbeat.
B) Everything is arbitrarily expensive. All units and buildings available for us to buy cost 999,999:c5gold: each to buy, 999,999:c5gold: per turn to maintain, RAs cost 999,999:c5gold:, etc. Now anything we'd want to spend our money on is completely inaccessible to us, so each marginal unit of :c5gold: is worthless. If offered the chance to, again, we'd definitely trade 999:c5gold: for 1:c5science:.

Obviously, in between these two extreme points, each unit of Gold does have some gameplay value (i.e., having more :c5gold: makes you more likely to win). Graphically, we have something like
IOqUA.png

, so the relevant question is whether we are to the right or left of where that function hits its peak, C. To the left of C, things are so cheap (i.e., close to free) that we can afford pretty much everything we need, and so there's not much to do with what leftover Gold we have: if our treasury doubled, we'd shrug. To the right of C, things are expensive enough that we're still getting a decent amount of bang out of every last dollar (well, unit of Gold) that we have available, and every Gold decision is a hard decision because there are tons of things to spend it on, each of which would help us greatly, and it's hard to see what the optimal choice is. If our treasury doubled, we'd jump for joy.

In the early game, this latter situation holds (e.g., good play dictates selling resources to the AI for Gold, we agonize over what to buy – a Temple? Catapult? A CS ally?, we're anxiously watching our treasury to see when we can afford that Settler*, etc.) But eventually, it's quite clear we end up the left of C, at least from my experience: once we have our core cities up and our economy is humming, Gold is pouring in from all sides and there's not much to do with it other than dumping it into Research Agreements and City-States. So prices need to be higher (so that we spend more money on stuff we really need, making our budget constraints more "binding"), or Gold needs to be harder to come by (so that our budget constraints are literally lower and therefore more binding).

* – this is why I don't like that Opportunities require cash on hand as opposed to having costs implemented by something like per-turn :c5production:/:c5food:/etc reductions, by the way. Having a single, literally random incentive to keep money in the bank fills Gold management decisions with angst, and not the fun kind (which would be something like the anxious "what to buy?", "right of C" situation described above... in fact, it takes these desperately-waiting-for-enough-gold situations away).

One last illustration: when playing as Spain, you're way happier finding a NW and snagging the 200:c5gold: prize on turn 20 than on turn 200, right? This isn't just because units and buildings are more expensive by that stage. It's because our economies' growth in between those turn far outpaces the growth in prices of age-appropriate units, buildings, and their maintenance. The key issue is the marginal utility of money, which comes out of both the level of prices and the availability of money.

[Technical aside: In fact, fixing this problem probably requires a significantly larger adjustment to the money supply and/or prices than it might seem at first glance. Suppose we had tons of data on skilled VEM players and we find that, on average, a gain of 1,000:c5gold: increases our chances of winning by 0.5% on turn 100 but a full 1% on turn 75 (assume for simplicity that no new units/buildings become available between these turns). Then gradually increasing prices so that turn-100 prices are double those of turn-75 prices would solve the issue, right? No, because in reaction to this price change, players would reallocate their Citizens/arrange their Cities to produce more Gold and less of other things. In fact we'd need prices to more than double between turns 75 and 100, even if no newer/better units and buildings became available during that span.]



A different but closely related issue is that Merchants are rarely worth employing. Dealing with the above problem (making each unit of Gold more valuable) would definitely help this, and for all I know could pretty much nail the issue. But I've always thought Great Merchants, even after all the VEM buffs, simply weren't all that fun to use. That's what my earlier suggestions were trying to deal with; I should've been clearer. In any case, the value of Gold issue is obviously more pressing, and in fact may in fact be the only problem here (in the sense that dealing with it may neatly and automagically fix the Merchant vs other Specialists balance issue).



Anyway, enough with the theory. In terms of what should change, I'd suggest
  • mid- to late-game RAs need to be more expensive relative to units and such (as has already been done! The last game I played was v130, so I don't know what the new higher prices feel like yet/whether the increases were too little, enough, or too much),
  • mid- to late-game maintenance costs need to go up across the board (esp. buildings: wide empires always seem to be flush with Gold. Can building maintenance be made to depend on population, by the way?),
  • CS bribes/"gifts" should cost more late (they're expensive enough if not too high at the beginning of the game, but nowhere near high enough later... but I think I remember you saying this was unfortunately hardcoded into the game),
  • Gold buildings like the Market and Bank may need to be nerfed,
  • Golden ages should give less of a Gold boost, and/or
  • Gold tile yields [for luxury resources in particular, I'd say] need to come down. (I really like VEM's "no bonus Gold for river tiles until improved" rule change for this reason, among others.)
 
Another solution to the problem of over-abundance of gold might be ... Inflation. :cry:

Instead of a function of time/game-turns or tech/maint.-costs, make it a function of treasury. The inflation penalty could be either against your gross or NET income.

Inflation against gross income could easily become cataclysmic with some empire configurations, obviously. :lol:

For instance, with a treasury of 5000, inflation might be 20% against your net. My math skills are below functional/trig levels so I won't suggest a model, though I'm sure it would have to be non-linear.
 
1. I'm not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting buffing scientists and nerfing artists? Why do something that seemingly exacerbates an imbalance?

2. I almost never work them, despite realizing the very significant benefits of a trade mission. But it appeals to me enough theoretically that I'm not sure there's a problem here. (Keep in mind that just about no GP are used to "build" anything after a certain point - not just GM's and GA's.)

3. There was some issue with RA's being priced out of usage, but once Thal explained why it was done, I saw the upside of the original, higher cost boost. My only concern is that it may hurt tall civs too much, given their usual lower gold income and presumed need for RA's/DoF's.

1. No, I'm suggesting nerfing Artists and Scientists while buffing Merchants.
2. Perhaps because my last couple games were small/tall my memory is colored but I've found this not to be true recently, mostly because of the Garden buff. In my last game I was producing GP rapidly until the end of the game.
3. Small/tall empires have almost nonexistent happiness constraints, which allows them to literally sell every luxury they have access to - I've found that luxury sales account for a good portion of my income in such games. (More on this below.)

Every specialist should have an identical number of available slots, so if artists have more that's a bug. Another bug would be 14:c5culture: landmarks. The vanilla yield from landmarks is 6, and the Free Religion policy adds +2. I'm not sure what could be bringing it up to 14... under what circumstances have you seen this?

The number of specialists available are not equal right now - the Garden (erroneously?) has an Artist slot, putting the Artist count at eight, while sixth and seventh scientists are on the Observatory and Research Lab, both of which are often out of reach for obvious reasons.

I've seen the 14:c5culture: Landmarks late in every culture game I've played in recent memory (I kept forgetting to bring it up:p) - could it be that the Policy_CultureChange modifier on Free Religion is a multiplier? (It's not, I just checked.)

EDIT: Save now attached to post.

There are various effects that add +1 yield to tiles. These cannot be decimal or fractional values, so every yield must be equal, or as close to it as possible.

I'm not sure I follow you here - why must they be equal? Getting culture or science on tiles is pretty rare, which is why I think lowering Artists and Scientists to 2 of their yield is a possible solution, because they are the "special" Specialists, granting an otherwise unavailable resource.

If it's not equal we need to alter the importance of the yield. Since we can't change tile income, we must change expenses. The challenge is raising costs can have two effects:

  • Encourage us to get more gold (as Seek discussed)
  • Keep the same amount of gold, but buy less (as Txurce discussed)
If we also increase the rewards from such things to encourage us to get RAs, then we just end up multiplying both sides of the equation by the same value, which might or might not help.
I think doing both of these is necessary, particularly raising costs and providing more opportunities for decision-making wrt gold. Events and more expensive RAs are a great way to do this (some have mentioned changing the cost of Events to be gpt which I'm not opposed to at all).

I agree wholeheartedly with Wobuffet's analysis above and many of his suggestions as well, particularly reducing Golden Age frequency and length - with the new happiness=1%:c5science: mechanic, the GA boosts are redundant and a little over the top; it feels like I'm in a GA for half of the game when playing small/tall!
______________

Aside from these more specific discussions, I think there are two things that we really have to come to terms with when approaching the matter of equalizing the value of yields, gold in particular:


  1. The changing value of yields throughout a game: As I mentioned in my previous post, the value of yields change depending on the state of your empire, and this fact makes the goal of equalizing yields impractical perhaps even futile.
  2. We are at the mercy of how *the AI* values gold: At the crux of the matter is that the AI determines gold value via resource trading: 4:c5happy:=240:c5gold:, always. The value of 240:c5gold: may change throughout the course of the game, but this strict valuation leaves us little wriggle room (similarly wrt City-States, the value of gold does not change significantly throughout the course of the game). When 1:c5happy:=60:c5gold:, the goal of balancing it to =3:c5gold: seems far-fetched indeed. Since we aren't able to modify the AI's valuation of luxuries beyond the most basic adjustments, we must value gold as less than equal to other yields.
 

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Sorry for being pedantic, but as an economist, I have to point out that inflation is, in fact, the rising of prices of goods and services. It has nothing to do, per se, with the money supply or value of a single unit of currency.

In VEM terms, inflation would occur if one hammer cost more than one gold. Deflation would be the opposite. You can extrapolate the meaning to RL from this distillation. It doesn't apply to any one version of VEM, but non-economists tend to stretch the meaning of the word.

There's two issues here: 1:c5gold: is less valuable than 1:c5production: or 1:c5science: or 1:c5culture:, and Merchants are rarely worth employing. I was trying to deal with the second of these...

By the time the mid-game rolls around, gold is too easy to come by, and there are often relatively few things to spend it on. That is, Gold has too little value.

This is obviously an issue of gameplay style. In my games gold almost never loses its value - that is, I always wish I had more. However, I generally boost gold production third, behind science and hammers, about even with culture.

Likewise, I disagree that GM's aren't worth employing. I just rank them behind GS's and usually GE's in Science games. I often rank them differently in Conquest games. Raising their value would lead me (and probably others) to use them more. When they were in the Commerce opener, I almost always took it (meaning I thought that was a good value).

In summary, making gold be less available and/or do less would limit what I can do, since I definitely don't have too much of it. So I wouldn't advocate making it less of a factor in the game.

I did mean World Wonders, actually. I'm not sure what Seek meant by "there are more Artist slots available for much of the game than any other type," but a lot of WWs offer Artist slots, yes?

Technically there are no WW's in Civ: there are GW's and NW's.
 
I think doing both of these is necessary, particularly raising costs and providing more opportunities for decision-making wrt gold. Events and more expensive RAs are a great way to do this (some have mentioned changing the cost of Events to be gpt which I'm not opposed to at all).

I agree wholeheartedly with Wobuffet's analysis above and many of his suggestions as well, particularly reducing Golden Age frequency and length - with the new happiness=1%:c5science: mechanic, the GA boosts are redundant and a little over the top; it feels like I'm in a GA for half of the game when playing small/tall!

Since we aren't able to modify the AI's valuation of luxuries beyond the most basic adjustments, we must value gold as less than equal to other yields.

Rather than argue these points, I'll step back and bring up purpose. Thal made a lot of these changes to allow tall civs to compete with wide ones in Science games, as per the "3 Playstyles" tenets. So I would say the question isn't whether there's too much gold (rather than just more gold) - but whether tall civs are now using their increased gold income to blow wide civs out of the water scientifically. This is what I am still testing, and it's where I think the focus should be.

As per above, just saying "I have too much gold" may just be a matter of playstyle. It seems to me that I've always marveled at how much gpt you have late game!
 
Copied from thread started in bug report forum:

Do you mean national wonders? There are 2 NWs for each specialist, with 1 slot apiece. Every specialist should have a maximum of 5 slots available in normal cities, and 7 in a city with both NWs. The specialist slots for non-wonder buildings were set in Sept 7's v107.1. If something does not match these numbers, please start a thread in the bug report forum:

In Rome (and all my fully developed cities) I have an artist slot for:
  1. Monastery
  2. Garden
  3. Temple
  4. Opera house
  5. Museum
  6. Broadcast Tower
... in addition to National Epic & Hermitage.

Also, there are only 4 scientist non-wonder slots (library, university, public school, research lab (aka laboratory)).
Addendum: For 5 scientist slots you also need an observatory.
 
I've only just recently (with VEM in fact) started to play the tall style. I love to expand, build new cities, and conquer, but I'm trying something new. So maybe what I've seen is typical. It doesn't sound like it, however, given the recent discussions. I play Emperor and have found all but one game much easier than Vanilla. For one thing, I am able to build many wonders (5-10) easily. I'm used to sacrificing for one or two.

In the early game, gold is pretty scarce. But it doesn't take very long to start making it. All I need is a river and Optics and I'm good to go. I can usually afford the RAs I can get, but I rarely buy units or buildings anyway. Maybe others do that a lot.

In my current game I stuck to four cities for a long while--with Gunpowder IIRC I built my fifth city because Elizabeth left me so much room. In the Industrial Age I built three more cities just to fill out the space. However, before that I was earning more than 500:c5gold:/turn, and by the time I had those other cities I purchased most of their buildings because I had stockpiled > 20k:c5gold:. All the while I had maintained an RA with all five other living civs. I never sold my last luxury--just the excess ones of which I had around 10. I also kept influence with seven CSes once I hit the Renaissance Era.

Because I kept my diplomatic status friendly with everyone, I maintained a minimal army, probably fifteen units. If anyone were to attack I could have easily bought an army to fend them off. This was partially abnormal because my borders had expanded so far due to excess room left by Lizzy. All the AIs, however, filled their tiles with units.

I wish I had some good suggestions on how to fix the situation. :shrug: Making things cost more may help, but then again I didn't need to buy stuff anyway because I was able to build what I needed easily enough due to all the :c5production: bonuses. :)
 
I play Emperor and have found all but one game much easier than Vanilla. For one thing, I am able to build many wonders (5-10) easily. I'm used to sacrificing for one or two.

In the early game, gold is pretty scarce. But it doesn't take very long to start making it. All I need is a river and Optics and I'm good to go. I can usually afford the RAs I can get, but I rarely buy units or buildings anyway. Maybe others do that a lot.

In the Industrial Age I built three more cities just to fill out the space. However, before that I was earning more than 500:c5gold:/turn, and by the time I had those other cities I purchased most of their buildings because I had stockpiled > 20k:c5gold:. All the while I had maintained an RA with all five other living civs. I never sold my last luxury--just the excess ones of which I had around 10. I also kept influence with seven CSes once I hit the Renaissance Era.

Because I kept my diplomatic status friendly with everyone, I maintained a minimal army, probably fifteen units.

I wish I had some good suggestions on how to fix the situation. :shrug: Making things cost more may help, but then again I didn't need to buy stuff anyway because I was able to build what I needed easily enough due to all the :c5production: bonuses. :)

This is pretty amazing. Forget gold - you did everything you wanted to do, including building perhaps every GW you wanted, racking up 20K g, and did it with a "minimal" 15-unit army that's bigger than just about any I ever have when not playing Germany. It reads as if you were playing on Warlord level, but you weren't. Is anyone else having results like this on Emperor?

And out of curiosity, what VC were you pursuing and in what turn did you win?
 
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