I was wondering how wasted food is calculated. What variables affect it? Thebes my capital has 195 food produced and out of it 105 is eaten and 21 are wasted from unhealthiness, and an additional 48 are wasted. I was wondering what is causing those 48 wasted units.
Question about wasted food
- Thread starter MMX5000
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
It's a relatively new mechanism to keep cities from growing too fast. It was developed in Caveman2Cosmos Mod (C2C) and Afforess back ported it into AND. C2C is based off AND.
If you want more details visit the C2C forum and look up the Wasted Food thread.
JosEPh
If you want more details visit the C2C forum and look up the Wasted Food thread.
JosEPh
BlueTemplar
King
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 611
Oh no, you didn't add that crap from C2C! 
I really don't like some of the directions this mod is going...
I really don't like some of the directions this mod is going...
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
It's reality wasted food. Trying to make the game more 'real world'.
Why not trial ways to reduce the wastage of food stuffs.
Its not much different from losing food due to ill health in your cities.
As long as the technological solutions are available to counter act such acts as well.
Be that, NGO's who distribute excess foods, market controls or exporting of excess levels of production.
Just a few idea's to consider if going this way.
Why not trial ways to reduce the wastage of food stuffs.
Its not much different from losing food due to ill health in your cities.
As long as the technological solutions are available to counter act such acts as well.
Be that, NGO's who distribute excess foods, market controls or exporting of excess levels of production.
Just a few idea's to consider if going this way.
BlueTemplar
King
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 611
Gameplay > Realism
And if you want to look at it that way, the most wasteful society ever, the current USA, wastes about only half of it's food. IIRC you could get to that point in C2C well before the Middle Ages.
Also, are there ways to reduce the wastage of food? Because when I played C2C there weren't any for as much as I played (about until the Middle Ages). And anyway there's already a mechanic that simulate the waste of food : unhealthiness (and also granaries in a way).
And if you want to look at it that way, the most wasteful society ever, the current USA, wastes about only half of it's food. IIRC you could get to that point in C2C well before the Middle Ages.
Also, are there ways to reduce the wastage of food? Because when I played C2C there weren't any for as much as I played (about until the Middle Ages). And anyway there's already a mechanic that simulate the waste of food : unhealthiness (and also granaries in a way).
Lol I WISH I wasted only half my food. Thebes now has 300 food produced and 179 are wasted now, none from unhealthiness, all just from waste. The mechanic seems like it might be nice at some LOWER ratios but cmon over half my food is completely wasted.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Are your cities tiles mostly farms? Are you building every Food storage building? Maybe a more balanced Tile development plan is in order here?
@Blue Templar,
Whether C2C is "crap" is strictly a matter of opinion don't you think? And what was the last version you played?
Do you both use the City Limits Option? Or is that even an Option now in AND? I forget. I never use it as it just seems to make this condition worse, imho.
I'll dig around and find out where the ratios for Food wastage are stored.
JosEPh
@Blue Templar,
Whether C2C is "crap" is strictly a matter of opinion don't you think? And what was the last version you played?
Do you both use the City Limits Option? Or is that even an Option now in AND? I forget. I never use it as it just seems to make this condition worse, imho.
I'll dig around and find out where the ratios for Food wastage are stored.
JosEPh
BlueTemplar
King
- Joined
- May 14, 2006
- Messages
- 611
Ok, I maybe have gone a bit overboard with the qualification, but I just so fracking hate that feature! Even more than inflation...
Like inflation it's a bad mechanic that's supposed to "balance" the game against exponential growth, but that mainly makes the game needlessly complicated and reduces the strategic options.
What if I want to run a specialist economy? (Or a whip-based economy though that's not an option in AND. What about drafting?) What if I want to have a few big cities instead of many small ones? Why am I being penalized? And who thought a mechanic that promotes ICS would be good?
And calculating what building to build or what improvement to make is already hard enough without having to account for something as complicated as the formula for wasted food...
P.S.: What city limits option are you talking about? That one that allows cities to expand to cover the third "cross"?
Also, I'm currently stuck with AND ~1.75 because when ammunitions were removed, it broke the saves (even those with maximum compatibility).
Like inflation it's a bad mechanic that's supposed to "balance" the game against exponential growth, but that mainly makes the game needlessly complicated and reduces the strategic options.
What if I want to run a specialist economy? (Or a whip-based economy though that's not an option in AND. What about drafting?) What if I want to have a few big cities instead of many small ones? Why am I being penalized? And who thought a mechanic that promotes ICS would be good?
And calculating what building to build or what improvement to make is already hard enough without having to account for something as complicated as the formula for wasted food...
P.S.: What city limits option are you talking about? That one that allows cities to expand to cover the third "cross"?
Also, I'm currently stuck with AND ~1.75 because when ammunitions were removed, it broke the saves (even those with maximum compatibility).
No less than half the tiles are farms. More than half my food comes from corporations or their buildings. I guess I can rebalance my approach in future games, maybe even pass on corporations that give food entirely since it seems to make them useless. Btw I really appreciate all the help youve given already. If you can find a place to change the setting on food cap please let me know.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
It's also dependent upon Game speed selected. Eternity will have the worst. Standard or Normal should not be affected.
The base, from what I've been able to dig up so far, is 100 for normal speed. Epic is 150, Marathon is 300, Snail is 600 and Eternity is 900. But this is for an iGrowCityPopulation tag that will affect how fast your city will grow. It's tied somehow into the food storage/waste and I have not got that part clarified yet.
@BG, The City Limit Option is based on your Gov't Civic. If you have Chiefdom you can only, iirc, have 4 cities. Despot allows 6 or 7, and so on up thru Republic which used to allow 20. All Gov't Civics above Republic are unlimited in the # of cities you can have without severe penalties. This is also why you sometimes see an AI Empire in the late medieval or early ren eras only have 4 or 6 cities cause they are still using the lower Gov't Civics.
JosEPh
The base, from what I've been able to dig up so far, is 100 for normal speed. Epic is 150, Marathon is 300, Snail is 600 and Eternity is 900. But this is for an iGrowCityPopulation tag that will affect how fast your city will grow. It's tied somehow into the food storage/waste and I have not got that part clarified yet.
@BG, The City Limit Option is based on your Gov't Civic. If you have Chiefdom you can only, iirc, have 4 cities. Despot allows 6 or 7, and so on up thru Republic which used to allow 20. All Gov't Civics above Republic are unlimited in the # of cities you can have without severe penalties. This is also why you sometimes see an AI Empire in the late medieval or early ren eras only have 4 or 6 cities cause they are still using the lower Gov't Civics.
JosEPh
Afforess
The White Wizard
Don't worry it was an error that I missed in play testing. Wasted food will not make it into the next release...
I have a similar issue with AND. I am using the SVN, revision 570, playing AND 2.0 Beta 3 on Win 7. Late in the game, I noticed my large cities were starving. Looking inside, I found this:
As you can see from the image, popup for food says I should be getting 90 food, and my people are eating 60. However, the food bar says I am only getting 60 food, so my city is stagnating at size 20. I really don't think that a fully developed city, with good civics, around Industrialism tech, working all the tiles in its radius, can't grow past size 20! That's just ridiculous...
Please let us know if this is a bug and if it is going to be fixed (SVN or release).
P.S. I looked into other cities, and in some others, the actual food counted for food box is less than expected by value of food gained from buildings. It may be that building bonuses for food are counted as a minus.... might want to check that.
As you can see from the image, popup for food says I should be getting 90 food, and my people are eating 60. However, the food bar says I am only getting 60 food, so my city is stagnating at size 20. I really don't think that a fully developed city, with good civics, around Industrialism tech, working all the tiles in its radius, can't grow past size 20! That's just ridiculous...
Please let us know if this is a bug and if it is going to be fixed (SVN or release).
P.S. I looked into other cities, and in some others, the actual food counted for food box is less than expected by value of food gained from buildings. It may be that building bonuses for food are counted as a minus.... might want to check that.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Please read post #12, 2 above yours. The answer is right there.
JosEPh
JosEPh
Sorry for the double post, but I found out how to fix the issue and thought that it warranted a bump.
The Cavemen 2 Cosmos people recently changed the wasted food mechanic so that it is exposed to XML editing. You can read about it in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=446490
I took the CvGameCoreDLL.dll from the latest C2C SVN and replaced my RAND CvGameCoreDLL.dll with it (backing up the original file, naturally). I then similarly replaced the ANewDawnGlobalDefines XML file. If you go to the bottom of the XML file, you'll see a new variable called WASTAGE_START_CONSUMPTION_PERCENT. Set this to -1 and food wastage will be completely turned off.
I was convinced that this crude method would surely crash the game, but it actually seems to work. RAND loads up just fine and doesn't complain about the new dll, and the food wasting is gone. I've played a few turns and nothing crazy has happened.
This will totally break your existing savegames though.
The Cavemen 2 Cosmos people recently changed the wasted food mechanic so that it is exposed to XML editing. You can read about it in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=446490
I took the CvGameCoreDLL.dll from the latest C2C SVN and replaced my RAND CvGameCoreDLL.dll with it (backing up the original file, naturally). I then similarly replaced the ANewDawnGlobalDefines XML file. If you go to the bottom of the XML file, you'll see a new variable called WASTAGE_START_CONSUMPTION_PERCENT. Set this to -1 and food wastage will be completely turned off.
I was convinced that this crude method would surely crash the game, but it actually seems to work. RAND loads up just fine and doesn't complain about the new dll, and the food wasting is gone. I've played a few turns and nothing crazy has happened.
This will totally break your existing savegames though.
justsomeguy
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2010
- Messages
- 3
sounds great, would you mind putting thouse 2 files up on a filehost somewhere? so I dont have to download that 1gb mod and SVN on my poor connection.
- there we go c2c files in the next post
