Victim of perceived thug does end up in jail

Silurian · May 13, 2012

The question should be do poor black people get shot more than poor white people.

And do rich black people get shot more than rich white people.

Formaldehyde · May 13, 2012

Flying Pig said:
No, what he's saying is that a greater proportion of guilty people doing shooting-worthy things are black, since a greater proportion of criminals are black.

Only white criminals outnumber black criminals due to the population difference, yet whites are shot by the police 1/4th as frequently. Take burglaries in Connecticut, for example:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0008.htm

Table 5: -Burglary Arrestees by Race in Connecticut

2000-2004

Year White Black Asian Indian Unknown Total

2004 2,263 665 15 0 28 2,971
2003 2,600 704 17 1 10 2,912
2002 2,462 688 30 1 8 3,189
2001 2,276 699 18 2,993
2000 2,170 685 15 - -2,870

Or crimes in general:

Type of crime White Number Rate Black Number Rate

All personal crimes 4,190,620 20.9 846,730 28.7

Crimes of violence 4,015,910 20.1 796,800 27

Completed violence 1,178,140 5.9 364,660 12.4

Attempted/threatened violence 2,837,780 14.2 432,150 14.7

Rape/Sexual assault 124,930 0.6 51,980 1.8

Rape/Attempted rape 83,170 0.4 32,210 8* 1.1*

...

Population age 12 and over 200,263,410 — 29,477,880 —

Crezth · May 13, 2012

Disgustipated said:
yeah it would bother me to be profiled, and I do feel bad for the law abiding african americans. But you know what, instead of complaining to the police about it, maybe they should work to improve their communities, get an education, and work to prevent crime in the first place.

How?

5char

Traitorfish · May 13, 2012

Disgustipated said:
yeah it would bother me to be profiled, and I do feel bad for the law abiding african americans. But you know what, instead of complaining to the police about it, maybe they should work to improve their communities, get an education, and work to prevent crime in the first place.

I don't really understand why you think the two are mutually exclusive?

From what I can tell, the same people are generally involved in both.

Bamspeedy · May 13, 2012

Formaldehyde said:
Only white criminals outnumber black criminals due to the population difference, yet whites are shot by the police 1/4th as frequently.

If a group is 10% of the population and commit 20% of the crimes then that group is '2x' as likely to commit the crime. Which is the same reasoning I think was used in determining how likely a group was shot (if 40% of those who were shot were black and if blacks comprise 10% of the population then that would indicate '4x as likely to be shot'). It shouldn't compare those shot to the general population but it should compare to the population that was arrested (criminals).

Why use burglary (where blacks commit 20% of them while being 10% of the general population) instead of murder and robbery where blacks commit over 50% in some years in Connecticut, your chosen state example. (5x as likely to commit it, so no surprise if they are 4x as likely to be shot).

Formaldehyde · May 13, 2012

You don't seem to follow. Most violent criminals are actually white by quite a margin, while four times as many blacks are shot by the police than whites. That is what is referred to as "institutional racism" by experts such as the one who wrote the article I posted.

Bamspeedy · May 13, 2012

You said 'four times as likely' which implies something other than what the author actually wrote (four times more often). So after reading the author's words I withdraw my objection.

I know the majority of criminals is white (because they are the majority of the population).

Define 'violent' crime. Why count burglary but not murder and robbery?

Disgustipated · May 14, 2012

Formaldehyde said:
You don't seem to follow. Most violent criminals are actually white by quite a margin, while four times as many blacks are shot by the police than whites. That is what is referred to as "institutional racism" by experts such as the one who wrote the article I posted.

You show this by comparing Connecticut? How many black people even live in that state. That state is an anomaly. But it does show what good education, and good values, and proper americanization can do to improve people's lives. Conneciticut most likely has higher test scores than the rest of the nation. They are the ideal state.

The rest of the country isn't so lucky.

woody60707 · May 14, 2012

Froma, where are the statistics on Hispanics getting railroaded by the Justice system?

Sorry, I just woke up, I couldn't think of putting that in a less trollish way.

JollyRoger · May 14, 2012

woody60707 said:
Froma, where are the statistics on Hispanics getting railroaded by the Justice system?

http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/YrBk10En.shtm

woody60707 · May 14, 2012

JollyRoger said:
http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/YrBk10En.shtm

Weak. Froma would of had graphs.

JollyRoger · May 14, 2012

woody60707 said:
Weak. Froma would of had graphs.

I played down to the level of the post I was responding to.

Formaldehyde · May 14, 2012

Disgustipated said:
You show this by comparing Connecticut? How many black people even live in that state. That state is an anomaly. But it does show what good education, and good values, and proper americanization can do to improve people's lives. Conneciticut most likely has higher test scores than the rest of the nation. They are the ideal state.

The rest of the country isn't so lucky.

I suggest you compare the percentage of blacks in Connecticut, which the raw numbers were even posted above, with the national average before jumping to such conclusions. Fourteen percent of the population of Connecticut over the age of 12 are black while the national average for all Americans is nearly 13%.

But you are quite right about much of the rest of the country not being as "lucky" when it comes to education. However, even the white criminals were exposed to the same education and still vastly outnumber the black criminals. And I seriously doubt the unemployment rate for young black males in Connecticut is much different than any other state.

I merely used that state because it was the first google hit that had relevant data. If you would like to show that the rest of the US has more black criminals than white criminals, go right ahead. But it would still be misleading because blacks are obviously discriminated against by the US legal system. And it would still not account for four times as many blacks being shot than whites unless you can prove that 80% of the criminals in the US are black.

ARE Blacks A Criminal Race? Surprising Statistics

"You could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."
— Former Education Secretary and Drug Czar William Bennett

"What was false? Well, as a matter of fact, is it not a fact that the per-capita crime rate among blacks is higher than whites? What is false here?"
— Brit Hume, reporter and commentator, Fox News Sunday, October 02, 2005.

"Statistics have long been kept on crime, breaking it down in various ways, including by race and ethnicity. Some identifiable groups, considered as a group, commit crime at a rate that is higher than the national rate. Blacks are such a group. That is simply a fact."
— Andrew C. McCarthy, former federal prosecutor, a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, National Review On-line, September 30, 2005 [1]

African Americans Make Up Nearly Half the Youth Detained for Drug Offenses, But Use Drugs at the Same Rate as Whites

African American Youth Are Treated Differently By the Juvenile Justice System

Drugs. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, among youths aged 12 to 17, the rate of current illicit drug use was 11.1 % among whites, and 9.3% among African Americans. [5] In a previous year, the same survey found that white youth aged 12 to17 are more than a third more likely to have sold drugs than African American youth. [6] The Monitoring the Future Survey of high school seniors shows that white students annually use cocaine at 4.6 times the rate of African Americans students, use crack cocaine at 1.5 times the rate of African Americans students, and use heroin at the same rate of African Americans students, and that white youth report annual use of marijuana at a rate 46% higher than African American youth. [7] However African American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate (African American 314 per 100,000, white 175 per 100,000) times that of whites, [8] and African American youth represent nearly half (48%) of all the youth incarcerated for a drug offense in the juvenile justice system. [9]

Weapons. According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, in 2001 whites and African Americans reported similar rates of carrying a weapon (whites 17.9%, African Americans 15.2%), and similar rates of carrying a gun (whites 5.5%, and African Americans, 6.5%). [10] African American youth represent 32% of all weapons arrests, and were arrested for weapons offenses at a rate twice that of whites (69 per 100,000, versus 30 per 100,000). [11]

Assault. According to the Center on Disease Control's annual Youth Risk Behavior Survey, African Americans report being in a physical fight at a similar rate (36.5%, versus 32.5% for whites), but were arrested for aggravated assault at a rate nearly three times that of whites (137 per 100,000, versus 48 per 100,000).

Disgustipated · May 14, 2012

naw, I think I'll just drop the issue.

Obviously 80% of the crimes are not committed by blacks, I have no choice but to concede that. I can only judge by what's going on in my city. And it ain't pretty judging by what happened to Arturo Martinez.

Bamspeedy · May 14, 2012

Actually, I'm going to have to see some hard numbers before I believe this 4-1 ratio. I think the Tampa Bay article goofed as the Chicago Tribune and other sources who wrote an article on the same day as the Tampa Bay article used the words "four times as likely" not "four times as often".

I've searched the BJS website and can't find anything that suggests blacks are shot 4 times as often as whites (which report was used? Use of force?, Arrested related deaths?), but I could see where 4 times 'as likely' would be possible.

Formaldehyde · May 14, 2012

Seeing that those two phrases mean exactly the same thing, I really don't see your point.

But go right ahead. Prove the expert on the topic doesn't actually know what he is talking about.

Michael Motto is a fellow of the Truman National Security Project and was a Gates Scholar at the University of Cambridge Institute of Criminology. He teaches and conducts research on policing and multiculturalism.

useless · May 15, 2012

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

SANFORD, Fla. —

WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.

State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.

Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin in February during a confrontation. However, he claims the shooting was in self-defense. He's facing a second-degree murder charge, which carries a maximum possible sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But if Zimmerman is charged and found guilty of a federal hate crime involving murder, he could face the death penalty.

Hopefully this goes ahead, although I wish they wouldn't use the death penalty.

Bamspeedy · May 15, 2012

Formaldehyde said:
Seeing that those two phrases mean exactly the same thing, I really don't see your point.

But go right ahead. Prove the expert on the topic doesn't actually know what he is talking about.

"Four times as likely" = 40% of the people shot despite being 10% of the population.

"Four times as often" = 80% of the people shot.

Why is it when I search "four times as often" I get just the Tampa Bay article and CFC OT, whereas I search "Four times as likely" I get a ton of other sources.

JollyRoger · May 15, 2012

Floriduh justice not racists? As I have said, if Zimmerman had been black, he would likely have been arrested on the night of the incident.

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law is coming under more scrutiny, this time in a case involving a woman sentenced to 20 years in prison after firing a gun in the direction of her abusive husband.

Marissa Alexander was sentenced last week after a Florida judge rejected her defense citing the "Stand Your Ground" law,

Florida's minimum-sentence guidelines require Alexander to serve 20 years in prison because a gun was fired in the incident.

Greg Newburn, Florida project director for Families Against Mandatory Minimums, said under the sentencing guidelines Alexander would not be granted early release or opportunities for parole.

"Just minutes before the incident, Marissa's husband told her 'If I can't have you, nobody is going to have you.' Millions of abused women have heard those words."

Alexander had no prior criminal record and possessed a court-issued protective order against her husband at the time of the attack.

Alexander's husband, Rico Gray, was arrested in 2006 and 2009 on charges of domestic battery.

http://news.yahoo.com/stand-ground-defense-fails-florida-shooting-case-030038820.html

Formaldehyde · May 15, 2012

Bamspeedy said:
"Four times as likely" = 40% of the people shot despite being 10% of the population.

"Four times as often" = 80% of the people shot.

Why is it when I search "four times as often" I get just the Tampa Bay article and CFC OT, whereas I search "Four times as likely" I get a ton of other sources.

That is an interesting interpretation of what the phases mean. But I think them both mean the latter. I even used the former to describe the statement of the latter in the article. Do you have any proof they don't?

Here is some proof to the contrary regarding the city of Austin, TX:

http://www.nodeathpenalty.org/news-...ings-unique-perspective-table-carter-shooting

According to APD’s 2009 Response to Resistance Report, out of 217,878 arrests made between 2007 and 2009, force was used on 2,726 people.

Of the 87,550 Caucasians that were arrested in that time, force was used 905 times, or in 1 percent of arrests.

However, out of the, 54,113 African-Americans in that number, force was used 780 times, which is 1.4 percent of arrests. That’s 40 percent more than in the arrests of Caucasians.

In five of the instances of use of force, police shot and killed people — three African-Americans, one Asian-American and one person whose race was not publicly disclosed.

And it doesn't stop there:

According to a Texas Department of Public Safety report, in 2009, Caucasians made up 70.4 percent of all traffic stops. Of those stopped, 1.8 percent were searched. The rate at which African-Americans were searched, though, is much higher. While blacks comprised only 9.6 percent of stops, 3.3 percent of people stopped were searched.

Either way, don't you think this is a massive problem for the vast majority of blacks who are not criminals, as well as anybody who really cares about justice? Should any black teen like Trayvon Martin be suspected of being a criminal for merely walking while black?

Victim of perceived thug does end up in jail

Deity

Both Fair And Balanced

第六天魔王

The Tighnahulish Kid

CheeseBob

Both Fair And Balanced

CheeseBob

Deity

Deity

Slippin' Jimmy

Deity

Slippin' Jimmy

Both Fair And Balanced

Deity

CheeseBob

Both Fair And Balanced

Social Justice Rogue

CheeseBob

Slippin' Jimmy

Both Fair And Balanced

Similar threads