This thread is intended exclusively for use of the deity players in the FFH DI5 game. None of this is FFH canon, and unless you are interested in this very game you will not find much of use here.
Posts that follow are addressed to the gods (diety Players) in that game. If you are the mortal player in that game (Veridian), you should not read any further.
I've made this thread because it was very useful in the last divine intervention game.
I'll keep a list of quests, ideas, protectorates, and plots to be played out in the DI5 game. Tell us your plans so that we can contribute or at least know what they are (unless you want to keep them secret).
The point is to give us dieties a place to discuss our plans and work together to make an over-arching narrative. If we each pull in our own direction without coordination, we will likely create a very chaotic game for Verdian and the readers of the main thread.
Don't treat this as something I am coming up with. Contribute your ideas, and I will add them to the list. I am mainly here to catalogue everything and provide balance.
Quests
This will be a catalogue of the current and finished quests that have been given to Verdian.
Plots
Any plots of plans you would like to let the other gods be aware of .
1. Esus convincing heroes escaping from hell that they have entered Esus's dimension and must escape by reentering hell via Bradeline's well and fighting their way up through it
2. Esus providing civs with HN units to sow distrust between them
Characters
Special characters or units that have been introduced in the game and their protectors and significancexx
Terrain features
1. Chill pass, a pass of tundra containing a defended tower and creation node which will turn into a shadow node once conquered.
2. Marsh of confusion, which provides units with shadowalk, hidden nationality, and poison if they remain there.
3. DunDorchadas a tower which has secrets so powerful that the units that venture there will not share them. Units that go there will become barbarians and remain there.
Other ideas
1. Arms dealers providing poisoned weapons to one side of a war and rusted weapons to another.
AI Civilizations
Here I'll try to keep track of what is going on with the AI civs and which gods are protecting them
This is a space for technical tips for using the world builder without breaking the save file. If you think of any other tips, tell me and I will add them.
1. Make sure to say "got it," preferably in this thread, when you download the latest save file and begin editing it. Otherwise your changes may be lost.
2. After perform your intervention, play out the game for 20 turns or so to make sure it doesn't cause a CTD.
3. Remove the orcish promotion from any barbarian units you create that are not orcs. Otherwise there will be instabillity issues, particularly when the clan of embers uses their world spell.
Generally, Esus won't be giving quests directly to Cardith. I'll try to create hooks that will be interesting without a direct command.
The stories will be about showing doubt and mistrust in the world. I expect that in some turns, I may just be adding flavour with the stories and that they won't have a perceptible impact on the game mechanics. Esus will not be mentioned in many of the stories. Some stories will be on the far side of the world and won't be directly linked to the Kuriotates to try and get across that doubt and mistrust are global phenomenon and not limited to the Kuriotates or Cardith.
Objectives for Esus include spreading distrust of authority, churches, friends, families and allies.
Esus is open to dealing with any Gods. In any dealings, with Gods, Esus will not be appearing in his true form.
Typical buffs I'll use are anything to increase distrust, e.g. Hidden Nationality.
I'll probably be doing gradual tweaks of diplomacy. This won't always be negative, after all, the greater the initial trust, the more the sense of betrayal.
The first step will be to create some interesting features on the map as future hooks.
Planned Map Features
Spoiler:
I plan to create The Chill Pass, a mountain pass linking two or more civs. The mountains are so high that the sun has never reached the floor of the valley. Floor of the valley is all tundra. There'll be an improved Creation node in the valley and a tower or fort at one end. Within the tower I'll place a minor held barbarian magic user, along with a griffon illusion and maybe another illusion. Once a CIV actually claims the pass and can examine the node properly, they'll discover that it's actually a Shadow node.
Does anyone know if forts can be used to claim cultural territory in magister's mod?
Planned blurb
Spoiler:
The mountains around the Chill Pass are so high that the sun never shines on the floor of the valley between them. The land in the Pass has not thawed since the end of the Age of Ice. They say that the wind that blows through the Chill Pass would have made even Mulcarn shiver.
At one end of the Pass is a tower. Within which, lives a savage sorcerer. Some say he's touched by genius, others insanity. He draws on the magic from the Pass in his experiments, creating life and lifeforms that shouldn't exist and haven't existed since the Age of Magic.
The Midnight Wood
A forest filled with noxious black fog. The fog disfigured faces and when it condenses on clothing some vapours seem to remain clinging around the person.
Barbarian lizardmen in there will get the Shadowwalk promo, so I won't be placing it too close to a CIV.
CIV units which are in there when the Gods turn start will get the Hidden Nationality, Shadowwalk and Poisoned promos.
Planned blurb
Spoiler:
In the earliest translations of this dread place, the given name was The Forest of Creeping Midnight. Over time and through the laziness of cartographers this has been reduced to the Midnight Wood. By either name, it is a fell place, best avoided by all sensible people. The black fog that hangs between the branches is poisonous on contact, quickly scarring the skin. Even if one leaves, wherever the noxious fog has condensed on clothing, a trail of the dark cloud will be attached, so it appears that one wears a tattered cloak of night itself.
- Prior Mirg, The Dark Corners of Erebus
-----
Widow Millson adored and doted on her two sons. They were Grigori boys and were not satisfied with living in their small village. They listened to the stories of Grigori adventurers and yearned for people to tell tales of them. Eventually, the widow relented and gave them permission to seek their fame and fortune. The widow stood by the village watchtower saying her goodbyes. It broke her heart to watch them leave.
The boys decided to seek their fortune in the Midnight Wood. The dark fog surrounded them, making it impossible to tell night from day, They found an area where the trees were not so close and decided to make camp. They thought it better to light a fire so they could see the monsters that would be in the first verse of their saga than to be killed in the darkness by something unknown. The elder gathered the wood while the younger organised the camp. The fire had been lit when the elder returned with the second load of wood. He saw that a monster, with a hideous face and numerous black tentacles was rooting through their bags and that there was no sign of his little brother. He drew his axe and attacked. He hacked and hacked til the beast didn't try to rise anymore. Then he saw that the "monster" wore his brothers clothes and that the tentacles were the black fog. He did not rest but carried his brother's corpse from that dark wood. He clawed out a grave on the edge of the wood before beginning the long walk home alone.
They were dangerous times. Many a bandit and monster lurked outside the village. The watchtower was always manned, so it was a great surprise when a fearful shriek rose from within the village. All the men grabbed whatever stick or farming tool was to hand and charged out to investigate. A nightmare made flesh from the night itself was slowly making it's way through the village. The men attacked and when it was almost dead they hung it by the watchtower as a warning to other marauders.
In the morning, she saw him. He had changed so much since she had seen him last but she would know her sons eyes anywhere. She asked for him to be cut down. As she cradled him, he rasped that he had killed his brother and begged to be hung up once more. The widow stood by the village watchtower saying her goodbyes. It broke her heart to watch him leave.
DunDorchadas
This will be a reputedly haunted tower/fortress in which are rumoured to be secrets so powerful that no man will willingly share them. If any CIV has units in the tower when I take over, they'll claim the tower for themselves and refuse to share with others, i.e. They think they've found some of the secrets. The units will be made barbarian and held in the tower.
I may put a held spectre here if noone else is in the tower.
I will specifically not be asking Verdian to do anything with the tower.
Planned blurb
Spoiler:
This old tower stands atop a sea-cliff. It's reputed to be haunted but this doesn't discourage those who seek it out. It is said that the caves and tunnels beneath the tower harbour secrets so great that no man will willingly share them.
Guess it might be a good idea to let on a few little things I've got planned for Camulos. Only a few for now though.
Spoiler:
I don't plan to do much actual intervention, at least not in the beginning. Camulos is the God of War, and right after the Age of Ice, about the only war will be for survival - nothing to get too interested in.
However, I fully expect Veridian - or, if we do go down that route, other mortals - to make an appeal should little Cardith decide to go to war, and if he doesn't I'll arrange for an 'offer' that will probably seem too good to be true. And it probably will be.
Since Camulos' attributed mana type is Chaos, there'll be a fair element of unpredictability. Any aid asked for might come, but not how expected. I've yet to actually decide on what exactly - it could be anything from getting a unit - maybe two if he makes it a good appeal - which will turn on him once the battle is over, or it might turn on him before then.
I don't plan to do much in the way of promotions though. I might (depending on which modmod is used) apply a mutation, but there'll always be a good and a bad side to it. Adding strength, but enough of a negative heal rate that they'll have to go home to heal, maybe. Again, not definite yet.
Lastly, I won't mind how or where Cardith chooses to try and contact Camulos by building, city, etc until certain things become available. When Pagan Temples become available, he'll either have to build one in the capital or go to a colony which does have one, and with the ability to build mana nodes he'll have to have at least one Chaos Node in his borders. Having more might benefit him, or it might not, but that's up to him to find out.
If he doesn't happen to meet one or both of them, providing he can actually get them, I will have conveniently developed selective hearing that ignores him - unless it takes my fancy.
Oh, and if the Vault of Camulos random event happens to anyone... I have plans. Big plans.
I was considering having a couple of arms dealers out there. On the eve of a battle, the low level troops in one side get poison tipped weapons and the low level troops on the other side get Rusted weapons (yes, they did smear poison on their weapons also but this particular poison won't be kind to metals). If another God is involved in a war, a request for aid to Esus will possibly get these herbalists despatched to the front.
Bad_Player,
Spoiler:
If it's okay with you and Order is founded by a different CIV, I'd like to build the first Temple of the Order for the Kuriotates. The founder will worship Junil (just worship Esus more). I don't have a specific plan for him yet but I don't want everyone to be shocked if I use an Order priest in a story. When the temple is built, there'll just be a sleeper agent in it. If the Kuriotates found Order, I'd like to found this temple in a different civ as I'll probably be able to use that in a story instead.
Elder Methyl
Spoiler:
If Sirona is planning on trying to raise the Precept of Hope, you can count on (some) support from Esus.
Some other possibilities
Spoiler:
When Drama is founded I'll do a story about Pretender masks being used in a play to allow a hero to escape his enemies. I'll then create two in the game, one for Verdian (to take or leave) and another with a different CIV. The masks will allow the units to enter opponent's territory. Every 50 turns the consciousness of the two mask wearers will switch.
When another CIV has the prereq tech for a hero and the hero usually has a specific piece of equipment, I'll create the hero but remove the item. A merchant would then ask Cardith to deliver it to a third party for gold and the boost in diplo relations.
I may give him a elven scout with kleptomaniac tendencies at some stage also.
Yes, that probably was excessive use of spoilers. If you're a God, read all of the above.
This plotline would directly involve at least one other God and the scale means I'd like feedback on if this is too excessive.
The preferred God to work with on this is Mammon as Esus would ask Mammon to release a dead hero from his hell as an investment. In time Mammon would get back that hero and the hero would lead an army of souls willingly into his hell.
It could also involve Camulos. The more of the different Hells the hero is exposed to, the more convinced he will be. Camulos gets a big war out of it.
The hero is allowed to pass through one or two of the vaults of hell and is then returned to Erebus. Thanks to Esus, he's convinced that he is in Esus's shadow Erebus. He convinces others of this belief (maybe Mammon might also give him Command I). He tells them that to escape from this false Erebus, they must exit via one of the supposed "Gates into Hell". A war is started between his CIV and either the Sheaim or whoever controls Bradeline's Well. He leads an army. Once they take a Sheaim city (planar gate) or reach Bradeline's Well, all of this army is removed (as they freely enter hell).
"Witnesses" then appear in cities around Erebus telling how the hero is leading his people out of hell.
What's the impact on the Kuriotates?
No direct impact. There's a war, so they may choose to take sides. If they separate the armies, they may be asked for Open Borders to facilitate the war. If there are no Sheaim in the game I'd like Bradeline's Well positioned at the start of the game, so that it is unlikely to be in Kuriotate's territory.
What's in it for Mammon?
Lots of free souls choosing to enter his hell.
What's in it for Camulos?
War
What's in it for Esus?
The idea of people choosing to freely enter hell in the belief that they are taking the first steps out of hell is sublime to him. It also spreads massive doubt throughout Erebus about the true nature of Erebus itself.
What's in it for me?
Apart from fleshing out the story above, in the aftermath I can do "Inception" type suicide stories and "Matrix" red or blue pill type decision stories.
Camulos might want to stake a claim on some of those souls. His hell consists solely of pain, hatred and battle, as the Lore Compendium mentions - which also goes into some nice detail that suggest Mammon's and Camulos' hells are in a way complimentary, with Mammon's corrupting the mind and Camulos' the spirit.
Also, if anyone does make it into the hells, the Bestiary gives me a nice little idea in the form of this:
Spoiler:
A thrall is a person possessed by one of the violent spirits form Camulos’s hell. They are known to be incredibly strong, unpredictable and violent. Unholy priests who can control the demon often use thralls as elite warriors. A thrall at full power often manifests significant physical mutations including things like tentacles, extra limbs, horns and overgrown muscles. Some become so transformed they no longer appear human
The Kuriotates might not get involved, but they'll change their mind fairly quickly once a few strange things happen as more souls make their way in - and then out again to make Thralls.
I've no issue with Camulos getting a share of the souls led by the hero. I originally suggested Mammon because of the investment nature of the hero's release from hell.
The Kuriotates might not get involved, but they'll change their mind fairly quickly once a few strange things happen as more souls make their way in - and then out again to make Thralls.
I planned on having the arch angel Iaegus appear to intervene, sealing the planar gate that the first exodus goes through, prompting the dispersal of the "Witnesses". If Camulos used his share of the souls to create thralls, there shouldn't be a direct visible link with this exodus. The Witnesses would of course spin the appearance of any thralls as evidence that Erebus is hell.
Camulos could encourage further wars as other armies try to claim different planar gates in order to escape from hell. This could lead to more open conflict with Ceridwen though.
I'll start adding these plans to the lists later today. I plan on being reactionary, and at the start I will just be modifying the terrain and barbarians so as to maintain balance between the good, evil, and neutral AIs.
However, if no one joins as a good deities I may start making quest hooks and intervening for them. I'll be placing a couple of forts and towers around his starting position with held guards for use in later quests. That way no one will have to add them into terrain he has already seen.
Lplate, all of your plans sound really good, though you might want to wait until several rounds in before springing your mega-plot. I think we need to come up with more plans like yours.
About the mega-plot
Spoiler:
I'd note that the Sheaim leader Tebryn Arbandi already has a similar backstory of escaping from hell. So if he is in the game you might hook the Sheaim into the story as an ally of the army rather than their target. Lore-wise, I think that the planar gates lead into Cerdiwen's realm rather than into the hells, though that still might be a good escape. Bradeline's well may be the best target and we might want to place it at the start in a suitable location. I'd suggest placing it near a good civ's starting location, and not so far from the Kuriotates that he couldn't intervene if he chose to. Later armies could try to escape through portals to hell that various evil gods open at different locations.
You also need to consider how you will get the AI armies to move toward these portals, though. Mechanically, it might be difficult, unless you want the armies to draw an entire civ into war with the Sheaim or the owner of Bradeline's Well.
about other esus plots
Spoiler:
One way to spread some distrust would be to make hidden nationality barbarians that look like they are from a particular civ and set them loose on a neighbor. In character, they could be lizardmen with glamours that make them look like elves or goblin archers that look like dwarven sling-throwers or javelin throwers, etc. If you set them near the Kuriotates border you might convince Verdian that one of his neighbors is attacking him with HN units. Near the AI borders you can have this creat negative relations and mention it in the main thread.
Camulos
Spoiler:
That sounds good, and you might want to force him to capture the city that he devotes to you rather that build it, or at least build it on a ruin that he has razed.
Everyone keep pacing in mind, too. Remember that we don't want to throw everything at him at once. You might want to spend the first edit or two placing terrain feature and quest hooks while he expands and explores.
Conquering would be in character, I admit, but as you say - pacing. In the first fifty turns he may form the basics of an army, but even if 'Barbarian World' were checked it's unlikely to see a city captured that early on.
It also depends on how exactly the relations between the Kuriotates and Camulos begin - whether they appeal for favour in their more combat-oriented actions, or whether something happens that moves Camulos to provide an offer.
I don't plan to make many landscape changes, as mentioned. I suppose I could plant a barb city and make it slightly easier to obtain, but this would really only be periphery. The location is not as important to me as the relations themselves. Save only perhaps a portal to the Camulos' hell, tied in with the mega-plot, there is as yet no need for anything on the map.
When you get right down to it though, I want to see if I can persuade him - for Camulos, at least - to ignore his choice to dedicate settlements to gods, and I intend to make my interventions based around pre-existing units more than terrain, or creating new units.
On one other idea that has been had-
Spoiler:
The Kuroitates have centaurs, and don't really have much use for 'real' mounted units because of that. I would suggest that he is in some form made to refrain from training Centaur units until after a condition has been made. Their cosmopolitan nature is all well and good, but I believe he ought to prove to the Centaurs someow that he's worthy of their aid.
This isn't really something I can (yet) attribute to any machinations of Camulos', but I might play with it if I can figure out how. Until then, feel free to expand and nick the idea.
I think you're right about the planar gates being Ceridwens. I suppose I'd picked the Sheaim as it could lead to a bit of evil on evil conflict. Bradeline's Well is the better escape route. I'd suggest having it near a choke point so that an attacking army would have to go close to it. If they'd passed it or were close when the Gods took over I'd run with the army escaping into hell story and remove those forces from the game. I wouldn't make Bradeline's Well a complete choke, as I'll probably have to leash something there to say that it's preventing others from entering the well.
I had fully intended for at least two civs to go to war. Got to keep Camulos happy somehow.
I wasn't planning on fully starting the mega plot until after the death of a suitable hero; Magnadine? or one specifically created in the DI game. The only early development I'd do is have a prophet telling people how they can escape the Hells.
The reason I posted it early was to make sure there was time for feedback and opinions.
There are I suppose parallels with Tebryn but Tebryn is fully aware of the evil he's involved in & his role is to bring Armageddon, which is slightly bigger than the misdirection of souls.
Hidden Nationality
Spoiler:
Your suggestion of the glamours is going a little bit further than what I'd considered. I'll have a think about how I might make it work.
Another plan I had was to have Hidden Nationality assassins offer their services to each and every nation after someone discovers the Poisons tech. Essentially, a global assassin's guild comes into existence. Some goody two shoes nations would refuse but there should be enough HN assassins moving around to make everyone suspicious of everyone else.
Finally got around to reading this thread! Sorry for the delay, I was playing History in The Making. Anyway, I'm liking the idea for the Metaplot. Here are my plans for Sirona:
Spoiler:
She would engage in traditional 'goody-two shoes' activities, but at the same time, be the only one of 'Good' gods to engage in counterpropaganda against the 'Evil' gods (as mentioned in this thread). She would spread the word that its possible to escape the hells as well, but cooperate with Lugus in order to produce an authoriatiative document that outlines how to do so. Said document also contains instructions for escaping Esus' hell (showing Lugus' virtures of Honesty and Insight), which could put a crimp in the Metaplot if it is dissemated to enough civs. Not just that, but her agents would be trying to infilitrate the Evil civs to redeem as many evildoers as possible.
If both the Elohim and Sheaim exist in the game, then I may probably put Morthas and Siasul from KillerClown's Blank Banner and Golden stories in play as special units for the Elohim and Kuriotates. In fact, the Blank Banner would probably be a key part of Sirona's plans.
Spoilerlurker comments on one of the ideas above :
as I won't be playing, do what you want with my comment. However, regarding centaurs... as there are no horsemen for Kuriotates, nobody has to "learn" horsemanship. So I think, very deeply, that learning the tech for centaurs IS the representation of the efforts to charm and show the centaurs that the kuriotates are to be trusted. Indeed, it can be understood as sending the most learned people of the city in embassy to centaur camps or to centaur quarters to convince the centaur elders that fighting for the "Big-City" is good for them.
well that's my 0.2
It occurred to me that one of Esus's aims should be to increase distrust between all the Gods. Perhaps the most effective way to do that is to have the Compact broken, given that it is the most significant agreement between the Gods. To this end, I'd like Esus to encourage other Gods to get more involved in Erebus, having religions founded, etc. Building up to when Esus tries to convince one or more that they need to make a much more forceful intervention on behalf of their worshippers.
This gives Esus motivation to get involved in discussions with any and all the other Gods.
Esus will always claim that the reason he doesn't get more involved in Erebus himself is that he already had his own version of Erebus which is working perfectly.
Potential opening for a meeting between Sirona and Esus. Elder Methyl, see what you think and where this conversation might go . . .
Spoiler:
Lugus sauntered through the Vault. One couldn't help feeling more at ease when visiting this serene place. Spying his sister, he strode over.
"Hi Sis."
"E-sus?"
"I can fool you with others but you always see right through my Lugus. How do you do it?"
"When you can make the Light of Truth shine from your eyes, then I'll believe your Lugus. You'd have to give up deception to achieve that though."
"Nonsense. The greatest deceptions are the Truth. It is the prejudices and beliefs of the observer that create the Deception. Everyone gets their own version of the lie and, you know me, . . . I love variety."
She would spread the word that its possible to escape the hells as well, but cooperate with Lugus in order to produce an authoriatiative document that outlines how to do so. Said document also contains instructions for escaping Esus' hell (showing Lugus' virtures of Honesty and Insight), which could put a crimp in the Metaplot if it is dissemated to enough civs.
That suits the Mega Plot. It helps Esus to have people out there describing the Hells and saying that it is possible to escape from them. That way people will be more ready to believe that they are in Esus's hell. Sure, it might drive some people to honesty to escape Esus's hell. Esus would gladly sit down and toast Lugus over all the honest souls that have been redeemed because they believed one of His biggest lies. For all those that go with the honesty route, there will be many others that try a different route to get out of Esus's hell. I was planning on having one of my characters recommending, encouragement of Empyrean to Cardith after the Witnesses scatter.
We know what happens when a god enters creation (The Illians, both before and after Mulcarn).
But what's often skipped over is that, if I recall Lore correctly, a god may not directly enter creation - a ritual was uncovered that would allow the Aifons to call their God into creation to protect their isle, but they were unwilling to restart the godswar.
That ritual then fell into Illian hands, and we know how that ends.
If any one God is to enter creation, I would point out that the ritual must first be rediscovered, and that in itself provides some story points:
-The ritual may be left at the Aifon Isle (Or Maenlos, as it's called in some versions) and if it is known it has been discovered there, the discovering civilization would end up with diplomatic penalties - to reflect how willing (or not, in the case of some) they are to stop them from bringing any God into creation. 'natch this would please Camulos - the potential for war on a map-wide scale.
-The God called in would of course depend on which civilization rediscovers it, and equally on whether they actually have a reason to. I can't see Cardith Lorda calling in a God, but he might surprise us all.
-Even if a God does manage to enter creation, the Godslayer will need it's own story. In standard FfH it was simply given to the highest-scoring Civs, in RiFE I believe there's a quest for it - I think we might, if we have to, want to steal that idea from RiFE and make people work to obtain and possibly even reforge it. As there is little information on what exactly transpired at Letum Frigus except for the fact that Kylorin slew Mulcarn, there's no concrete knowledge of what happened to the Godslayer itself, effectively giving us a free hand to decide how it comes to be again.
-Also, as Dagda will no doubt concur, balance - while putting a unit down with Avatar and other promotions to represent a God in creation could be done, it could also cause a whole slew of problems, not least of which that the God in question would have little to no control over what it does in the 50 turns between Interventions.
That's useful info. While I said Esus would be working towards trying to get a God to break the Compact, I don't think it's practical to have a God enter creation within the game. Of course, if people believe that others are trying to bring a God into creation, then some of the story ideas you have could be used.
"Cardith, you must reclaim the Aifon isle, the Balseraphs are looking for information on the ritual to bring Mammon into Erebus."
"We must be ready if the Ljosalfar succeed in their plan to bring Cernunnos into Erebus. I recommend that we immediately send sages to Cahir Abbey to try and learn where the Godslayer is. We must have the Godslayer if our worst fears come to pass."
I still have to install it myself and won't be in a position to do it til next week. Once a few of us are organised, it shouldn't be too much trouble to do the edits for each other. In order to get a clear picture of how it's progressing, you'll probably want to install the modmod to view the saves even if you aren't editing them.
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