Avatar: Legend of Korra

Leoreth said:

When the Amon arc was written there was only one season, though, so the "first season villain" archetype doesn't need to apply.

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That's interesting to know, because I had read the show was written as a "villain per season" affair. If Amon sticks around for Season 2 it can only mean good things. I'm really enjoying him as the antagonist.

I'm hoping we'll see Korra enter a meditation state some time before the end of this season so that she can speak with Aang. Of course, she'll need to work on the spiritual aspect of being the Avatar first. I wonder if her flashbacks are just memories of her past life (i.e. Aang) coming back to her, or if it's Aang actually attempting to contact Korra? I get the feeling it's the latter.

Leoreth said:

He would be the only bender in the end, obviously

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Still don't see how that would work, seeing as he armed his own followers with the means of taking out benders, which anyone could be trained to use.

Not to mention that if he could learn how to take away bending, anyone else could too.

TheDanish said:

That's interesting to know, because I had read the show was written as a "villain per season" affair. If Amon sticks around for Season 2 it can only mean good things. I'm really enjoying him as the antagonist.

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Me too.

I'm hoping we'll see Korra enter a meditation state some time before the end of this season so that she can speak with Aang. Of course, she'll need to work on the spiritual aspect of being the Avatar first. I wonder if her flashbacks are just memories of her past life (i.e. Aang) coming back to her, or if it's Aang actually attempting to contact Korra? I get the feeling it's the latter.

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I think it's the same thing in the end. The previous avatars are part of Korra and her memories.

electric926 said:

Still don't see how that would work, seeing as he armed his own followers with the means of taking out benders, which anyone could be trained to use.

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That's another thing I've been wondering about. Does the Avatar world have electrical generators? All we get to see from power plants is fire benders shooting lightning into a capacitor. Which means the equalists are also causing a technological setback, and will make their own weapons unusable.

Not to mention that if he could learn how to take away bending, anyone else could too.

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Depends on how he does it.

Leoreth said:

I think it's the same thing in the end. The previous avatars are part of Korra and her memories.

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I suppose I was thinking along the lines of how Roku spoke with Aang. At times Roku actively contacted Aang and said, "Ok, I need to tell/teach you some stuff." Korra is evidently not yet in touch with her spiritual side enough for this "communication" to be easy, which is why it only occurs during blackouts.

Leoreth said:

Depends on how he does it.

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This is going to have huge ramifications no matter how it plays out. If he learned how to do it through his own initiative, then that could mean anyone can learn to remove bending. If he was truly granted the power by the spirits, then the Avatar is no longer the sole "representative" of the spirits' agenda in the world (this is part of my personal crack theory )

Leoreth said:

That's another thing I've been wondering about. Does the Avatar world have electrical generators? All we get to see from power plants is fire benders shooting lightning into a capacitor. Which means the equalists are also causing a technological setback, and will make their own weapons unusable.

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I never really thought about that until you brought it up. . . they probably do, but bending provides "free" energy it seems, and is probably cheaper in the long run, depending on the actual electrical output of lightning benders (I dunno what that is).

They probably have a good union to boot.

druidravi said:

For me , Amon having a tragic past where benders kill his family and mutilate his face , makes him a tragic figure and someone we can empathize with (sort of like Jet). As the main antagonist of the first season he should be someone we would get repulsed by .

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I kind of got the sense that Amon is going to be the primary antagonist for the series. I imagine Tarrlok is more along the lines of the "first season bad guy" (I'm thinking he'll really come to the fore of the story in the next few episodes). Besides, if there's anything true about Bryke it's that they really don't like creating stereotypical "Bad Guy" characters. Each character, regardless of whether he's a protagonist or antagonist has motivations for their deeds. Until the 4-part finale, I honestly can't think of anybody in that show who was evil for evil's sake, aside from Azula being spiteful towards he brother which, let's be honest, happens all the damn time in reality.

PeteAtoms said:

I never really thought about that until you brought it up. . . they probably do, but bending provides "free" energy it seems, and is probably cheaper in the long run, depending on the actual electrical output of lightning benders (I dunno what that is).

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Yeah, this, I think, is the really interesting part about Amon and the equalist movement as a whole. The show really goes a long way towards demonstrating to us (the viewer) the beneficial aspects of bending (healing, electricty, an extremely effective and efficient police force [at least in theory], an easily maintained road-infrastructure, etc.), however Amon frames his speeches to leave these points out. He's essentially making a Texas Sharpshooter type argument, and that's ignoring of course the obvious straw man line "Benders have been the cause of every war fought in history". These are arguments which appeal to the low masses because they don't stop to think about it. I honestly don't know where I'm going with this other than the world Bryke have created for this series is extremely interesting, multi-faceted, and intricate.

Owen Glyndwr said:

Yeah, this, I think, is the really interesting part about Amon and the equalist movement as a whole. The show really goes a long way towards demonstrating to us (the viewer) the beneficial aspects of bending (healing, electricty, an extremely effective and efficient police force [at least in theory], an easily maintained road-infrastructure, etc.), however Amon frames his speeches to leave these points out. He's essentially making a Texas Sharpshooter type argument, and that's ignoring of course the obvious straw man line "Benders have been the cause of every war fought in history". These are arguments which appeal to the low masses because they don't stop to think about it. I honestly don't know where I'm going with this other than the world Bryke have created for this series is extremely interesting, multi-faceted, and intricate.

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This is why Amon is a clever sunnovagun. And the fact that so far he's only taken bending from cheaters and criminals. I totally bought his decision to spare Korra on Memorial Island. He is not only a great villain but a great overall character as well, even considering we've only ever seen him when he's forwarding his Equalist agenda. That's some solid writing right there.

EDIT: Jumping on the bandwagon and making an Avatar-themed avatar.

Bending is supposed to be based on spiritual ideals and martial arts right? What prevents a non-bender from enjoying the same spiritual benefits by learning martial arts or meditating? The way that the benders have been reacting at the prospect of losing their super powers, it seems like there is a little more than spiritual attachment.

I kind of get the impression that they are reacting the same way a child would if you were to take away some cherished toy. I get that bending is a great tool but I'm not seeing the spiritual value in shooting fire out of your hands while doing yoga or whatever.

Would Buddhists somehow be more enlightened if they could fly around?


EDIT: And another question. What do the automobiles and those mechs run on? Rewatching the last episode, I didn't see any exhaust coming out of those mechs, and they had some sort of electrical generating ability.

I have to agree on everything that's been said about the characterization and world building in Avatar. Excepting the childlike fun I get from how cool bending is in how it's choreographed, it's what makes this show so interesting to me. I'm currently rewatching The Last Airbender and episodes like the ones dealing with Appa's kidnapping really work on a profound emotional level for all characters. And Korra even tops the previous show in terms of character development and complexity of the setting, at least in how densely it is presented.

PeteAtoms said:

Bending is supposed to be based on spiritual ideals and martial arts right? What prevents a non-bender from enjoying the same spiritual benefits by learning martial arts or meditating? The way that the benders have been reacting at the prospect of losing their super powers, it seems like there is a little more than spiritual attachment.

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It's never really explained, but my interpretation is that bending is not just a function of someone's spirituality. You have to be born a bender, and learn the techniques associated with your element to use it [I'm not exactly sure how much spirituality is required to actually use it, but say Ozai certainly was powerful without being spiritual]. On the other hand, there are spiritual people who can't bend, like Piandao or Aang's guru.

I kind of get the impression that they are reacting the same way a child would if you were to take away some cherished toy. I get that bending is a great tool but I'm not seeing the spiritual value in shooting fire out of your hands while doing yoga or whatever.

Would Buddhists somehow be more enlightened if they could fly around?

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Spirituality in the avatar universe seems to be about being in tune with yourself and the world around you. And for benders, bending is part of what they are. It's how they define themselves. So losing bending is not just like using a toy or a useful tool, it's like loosing a part of themselves. Sure, you can exist without it, but it's not really yourself anymore, so their spiritual calm is destroyed.

Imagine you're a master pianist, to whom playing the piano is part of his life. It's not just a nice hobby to you or a good job - you literally couldn't imagine to not play the piano in your life. And then your fingers become paralysed - everything you've been is totally destroyed.

Sure, you can live on otherwise unimpeded, and there are millions who never learned to play piano the way you did and live happy lives, but that's irrelevant to how you feel about yourself.

EDIT: And another question. What do the automobiles and those mechs run on? Rewatching the last episode, I didn't see any exhaust coming out of those mechs, and they had some sort of electrical generating ability.

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That brings us to the question of generators again. If there's no exhaust, it supports electric motors instead of combustion engines, and that would imply there are generators too.

Owen Glyndwr said:

Until the 4-part finale, I honestly can't think of anybody in that show who was evil for evil's sake, aside from Azula being spiteful towards he brother which, let's be honest, happens all the damn time in reality.

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I would think Admiral Zhao , Ozai ,Azula and even Iroh(before his son died in Ba Sing se seige when he sends the sword and letter to Zuko and co) would fit into evil.


In Wiki link it says Tenzen is the youngest of Aang's sons and only one who is an airbender . What if this Amon is Aang's son who was not a bender. It could be that he felt Aang favored Tenzin among his children and this guy developed daddy issues(ala Zuko) . It would even explain his fixation with the avatar.

Edit: He could have even learnt how to take away bending from Aang himself.

Katara and Tenzin discussed his siblings briefly in episode one and I think it would've been mentioned if he had mysteriously vanished or something like that. By the way, I really hope we get to see Kya and Bumi at some point.

druidravi said:

I would think Admiral Zhao , Ozai ,Azula and even Iroh(before his son died in Ba Sing se seige when he sends the sword and letter to Zuko and co) would fit into evil.

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Zhao isn't evil, he's ruthlessly ambitious. Everything he does is motivated by an opportunity to further his name or increase his position in the Fire Nation Navy. He never just up and attacks somebody for no reason.

Ozai is the only one you can really make a claim for, but only within the context of the last 4 episodes mass-genocidey thing. Before that he's motivated by the drive for power. And also by a massive inferiority complex, problem derived from the fact he had to live second son to Iroh for all those years.

Azula is never outright evil either. Her "evil acts" are results of her massive insecurities, particularly with her friends and the way she sees herself in general. Again she never does something just for the sake of being bad or for no reason at all.

And Iroh...When has Iroh ever been "evil"? All we know about him is that he besieges Ba Sing Se for 600 days and then retreated when his son died. He's never evil for evil's sake.

Haha, this page has lots of interesting theories about Amon.

druidravi said:

In Wiki link it says Tenzen is the youngest of Aang's sons and only one who is an airbender . What if this Amon is Aang's son who was not a bender. It could be that he felt Aang favored Tenzin among his children and this guy developed daddy issues(ala Zuko) . It would even explain his fixation with the avatar.

Edit: He could have even learnt how to take away bending from Aang himself.

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That sounds... frighteningly plausible. A little cliche, but nothing I can't stomach if it's done well.

By the way, isn't there a bandwagon around here somewhere?

I would not put it past the creators to "leak" such a screenshot just to mess with the fandom. Seriously.

I've been interested enough in the series to keep up with all of the episodes so far, but I don't like how the Tall Air Man moves, he seems really stiff.

Owen Glyndwr said:

Zhao isn't evil, he's ruthlessly ambitious. Everything he does is motivated by an opportunity to further his name or increase his position in the Fire Nation Navy. He never just up and attacks somebody for no reason.

Ozai is the only one you can really make a claim for, but only within the context of the last 4 episodes mass-genocidey thing. Before that he's motivated by the drive for power. And also by a massive inferiority complex, problem derived from the fact he had to live second son to Iroh for all those years.

Azula is never outright evil either. Her "evil acts" are results of her massive insecurities, particularly with her friends and the way she sees herself in general. Again she never does something just for the sake of being bad or for no reason at all.

And Iroh...When has Iroh ever been "evil"? All we know about him is that he besieges Ba Sing Se for 600 days and then retreated when his son died. He's never evil for evil's sake.

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I think we differ in how evil is defined. Someone who would throw the whole eco-system of the planet under chaos by destroying the moon,ocean spirits just for invading a nation which doesn't threaten them would be evil. That is Zhao.He was the guy who was happy when Zuko's face was getting burned in the flashback.

Ozai is the guy who deliberately disfigured his son for perceived disrespect. He was ready to replace Iroh the moment Iroh's son died and was involved with some unknown plot where his father died.

Iroh is his letter to Zuko , when he was besieging Ba Sing Se writes that they can see the city if he doesn't burn it to the ground first and laughs. Before his son died , he was a cruel person . He did change after his son's death and after he visited the spirit world.

Zuko , Iroh ,Jet are people we can empathize with even when they do evil actions, and they can never be the primary antagonist . On the other hand Ozai , Zhao and Azula can never be empathized with , even when we understand the motive behind their actions .I have to admit Azula is too awesome a villain to hate. If Amon's parents were killed by firebenders and his face scarred by them , we would empathize with someone of that background . Normally in a good story the writers try to create hatred by the audience towards the main villain and root for the protagonist. Amon will not fit that if his supposed background is true.

Leoreth said:

Imagine you're a master pianist, to whom playing the piano is part of his life. It's not just a nice hobby to you or a good job - you literally couldn't imagine to not play the piano in your life. And then your fingers become paralysed - everything you've been is totally destroyed.

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Offtopic: I actually did this to myself during the DYOS series X2.

druidravi said:

Iroh is his letter to Zuko , when he was besieging Ba Sing Se writes that they can see the city if he doesn't burn it to the ground first and laughs. Before his son died , he was a cruel person . He did change after his son's death and after he visited the spirit world.

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What about the dragons that Iroh saved by claiming that he killed them? Assuming that came before his son's death, that kind of trumps the whole "Iroh was evil" idea.

KaiserElectric said:

What about the dragons that Iroh saved by claiming that he killed them? Assuming that came before his son's death, that kind of trumps the whole "Iroh was evil" idea.

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Donnow about that. I have been thinking the whole dragon stuff/Zuko losing his bending was filler. Iroh claims/demonstrates to Azula in season 2 that he got the dragon of the west title due to his breathing fire out like a dragon . That thing is contradicted in Iroh getting the title by saving dragons.