Delayed Bronze Working Start

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Brennus.Quigley

Warlord
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
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A few weeks ago, I posted an article in the Civ4 Strategy Articles forum Strategy and Tips entitled THE BENEFITS OF AVOIDING BRONZE WORKING that generated a lot of feedback, some positive and much negative. The "gauntlet" was literally dropped on me to post a delayed Bronze Working start. This is one. You are Frederick and the save is on Immortal level.



P.S. I would be happy to post a Deity save (or any other level) if someone can tweak the file.
P.S.S. The strategy article has also been updated based on some additional thought and some helpful feedback.
P.S.S.S. This is Beyond The Sword, version 3.19, no mod. Huts/events ON! (If you want to do slavery, you have to deal with the revolts).

Good times.

Details on my play through:
Spoiler :
The article includes several delayed Bronze Working bulb opportunities. I believe this one is optimal for the Liberalism bulb. I bulbed Liberalism in 740 A.D. on my way to a capitulation-diplomatic victory. Attached is screenshot of the Liberalism bulb. From there the fastest win would probably come from an immediate Cuirassier rush on the continent. However, after locking it in, I personally held off until 1280 A.D. and took Communism. Anyway, there's better players out there than me, so I look forward to seeing what they can do with the start.



Some additional info:
Teched Animal Husbandry to Writing to Masonry to Alphabet and then did some tech brokering. Built an academy in Berlin before any wonder.

Adopted Hinduism and made nice with Suleiman and Caesar, including declaring war on Victoria. Was able to only have and handful of warriors and chariots for thousands of years.

Built the Pyramids in 900 B.C.
Built the Hanging Gardens in 450 B.C.
Used that Great Engineer to rush the Parthenon in 100 A.D., for both culture (Suleiman was settling south) and great people. Didn't plan that one out ahead, but it looked good once Suleiman settled that city (on the uranium there south of the mountains).

Bulbed Liberalism and teched Bronze Working in 740 A.D.

Used Liberalism to snag Communism in 1280 A.D. (although I'm sure snagging Military Tradition much sooner would lead to the faster victory)

Built the Kremlin and adopted Universal Suffrage in 1340 A.D.

The National Wonders in Berlin were Oxford and the Iron Works.

Capitulation order went Suleiman, Victoria, Caesar, and then Hannibal. Victoria had built the UN in London, and that was good enough for a diplomatic victory.

 

Attachments

  • Frederick Schmidt BC-4000--FREDERICK DELAYED BRONZE START.CivBeyondSwordSave
    39.5 KB · Views: 156
I guess Munich with 2 fishies and FPs = size 6 and slow building an Aqueduct, cos you had zero production without slavery and you needed 30 turns to get 2 boats and another 30 for a lighthouse and granary :D
 
tagging for later, won't read spoiler for now. Will try the start myself...

first sight tells me that the food is a bit meh and will be a bit bad for philo leader.
 
Nice nice, I hope I have time to check this game out myself tonight.
 
Uhhh sorry to break it to you but this map only goes to show why slavery is the best civic in the game. But even more so I can't believe you leave lucky huts, and trollvents on they have no skill involved they are 100% RNG, and lucky huts should only be on in HoF games where you want to abuse luck.
 
Huts/Events do not belong in a game which is thought to be the test-ground for strategies imo.

I agree with ZZZ that this map invite to BW, especially with that nice fish/floodplains spot.

I'm sure alot of players are willing to race you to liberalism, if we can just agree to leave huts/events out of the picture.
 
Fortunately lucky huts and events are not permitted in the last HOF challenge series either... I'd be happier to shadow this without them.
 
Ah, finally!

Thanks for posting the game, I'm looking forward to seeing some reports. Won't look at yours for now, because I might play myself.

krikav said:
Huts/Events do not belong in a game which is thought to be the test-ground for strategies imo.
Click to expand...

Urgh - maybe I won't play, though. :sad:

What krikav says is even more true when trying to avoid BW: for any hut you pop, there's a chance you might get BW. ;)

- - -
Could you post a screenshot of the other settings?
 
Cusanus said:
What krikav says is even more true when trying to avoid BW: for any hut you pop, there's a chance you might get BW. ;)
Click to expand...

Ha! This is why you have to avoid huts too :)
Seriously: we're trying to compare alternative tactics here. There's no point in doing this if player A pops 2 techs and gets 3 lucky events while player B pops barbs and rolls 3 barb invasions.
 
lol well honestly, i opened WB..and if that's not "slavery and then we will see" stuffs i dun know what is ;)
 
UnforcedError said:
Ha! This is why you have to avoid huts too :)
Seriously: we're trying to compare alternative tactics here. There's no point in doing this if player A pops 2 techs and gets 3 lucky events while player B pops barbs and rolls 3 barb invasions.
Click to expand...

Yes, we want as clean and unbiased data as possible.

It appears that Brennus wants to set liberalism as the end-goal.
Liberalism isn't necessery a good goal in games by itself, but I think that most of us can accept this as a viable goal for our benchmarking.

I want to see a regular bw approach toward liberalism and the no BW aproach.
We can evaluate the state of the empires at that point, and also see what turn we are at.

Then we can see if it could be viable option, or if this is just a fun thing to try. (Like playing through doom with only the chain-saw)
 
Mylene said:
Why? He cannot be faster, i can tell you right now ;)
Time to stop this mystery before we make fools out of ourselves.
Click to expand...

It's fun, it's educational. And it's the only heated topic of debate right now. Thats why! :)

I do wish we would spend effort on some other venture that has higher likelyhood to result in fruitfull results. But I can't figure out any such ventures, and I can't propagate for it with such vigor as Brennus does.
 
Does nayone know how to get rid of huts and events? Can they be edited in the save or will that be buggy? (Huts can be deleted in the WB before starting the game, I guess, but I'd rather play w/o map knowledge.)
 
UnforcedError said:
Does nayone know how to get rid of huts and events? Can they be edited in the save or will that be buggy? (Huts can be deleted in the WB before starting the game, I guess, but I'd rather play w/o map knowledge.)
Click to expand...

you have to do it through WB... I am very vaguely planning to do it once I hit home and will please my kids.
 
I'll have a look too in the evening. Thanks, Vranasm, so WB it is then.
 
Zx Zero Zx said:
Well considering he thinks 740 AD is a fast Lib time I think My is 100% right here.
Click to expand...

Your contribution with a awesome game of awesomeness with BW would probably aid greatly in puncturing the dream of a engineer-bulb BW-less liberalism party.

We need at least some people who can play the devils advocate too though.
Trying to make this tactic work as good as it can.
 
Depends on what he was using Lib for at 740AD, Future Tech 1 its amazing (impossible I'd say on IMM :p), Nationalism (even MilTrad/Steel) and its about average :)
 
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