Immortal University 88 - Catherine

klonoklown

Civ Junky
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
331
Location
illinois
Greetings, Immortals and would-be Immortals (and indeed any other players of any level), and welcome to the Immortal University.

Here is our Leader:



Here's the opening scene:



The following settings were used to create this map



And the Demographics for people to spot any info they can



Before we start, here's the copy & paste bit where I get to pretend that I'm TMIT:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

We also have an initial Immortal/Normal autosave which is much more convenient since you can avoid all the worldbuilder shenanigans. It comes with my personal seal of approval (not least as my worldbuilder edits may contain hideous game-destroying errors that could cause your computer to explode ).
 

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Reserved.

Spoiler minor map details :
No actual edits were made to the map, all though one extra AI was added. Also the AI was chosen randomly.
 
Move scout either 1S2W or 2S1E to see what I lose/gain moving 1W and settling to make a production capitol, probably moving place later to a commerce spot for CS.

Probably have time to play this tomorrow before family stuff, if not I'll try at some point before RL gets crazy again :)
 
Till 3000BC

Spoiler :

Turn 0

First thing I did was check if we were in a corner like I suspected from the tundra you can see NE of the plains hill I talked about moving the scout to. Since the pathing wouldn't go past 4 tiles to the west I knew we were in a corner, so that made moving the scout 2S1E my choice.
Seeing no food in the tiles I'd lose from settling 1W I decided to go with that option, the capitol has 4 Grass Hills, 4 Plains Hills, and Marble, with the Marble and 4 Hills being riverside, I start a worker and hold off choose a tech till Turn 5, Agriculture will be the choice but if I meet any AIs they all have it from Immortal bonuses allowing me to research bonuses and possible shave a turn off it :)

Turn 5

Not met any AIs yet so no bonuses when I finally choose Agriculture for my initial tech, scout has explored abit and will soon have to be more careful due to barbs

Land Seen so far
Spoiler :


Turn 6

I meet Darius to the south.

Turn 10

I meet Gilgamesh to the east. 2 religions already gone and neither of the AIs I've met so far have them, also my scout got attacked by a panther out of the fog and is currently healing.
After Agriculture, I decided Mysticism followed by Masonry, planning on getting the Temple of Artemis (and later Great Library + National Epic) to produce GP for golden ages. Early scientist doesn't seem great with the low commerce start. Planning on growing to 4 and making a settler off Wheat, Corn, Marble, + riverside Grass Hill Mine.

Turn 22

I meet Brennus, founder of Hinduism to the south. Scout defeats a Bear attacking across a river into a forest, scout should still have time to heal and get to an area to help spawn bust for 2nd city.

Turn 25

Masonry is 1T from finishing just as worker is moving to improve it, hit Pop3 and finish a warrior at the same time. Considering just building Settler at pop 3, or growing on Stonehenge/Great Wall to Pop 4 for fail gold. Due to the fights the scout has gotten into my scouting isn't great but I have atleast 2 city sites planned so far. After Masonry I may go Archery for defense or gamble on horses with AH.

Land Explored

Spoiler :




First game thats not a messabout 10-15min in awhile so probably not greatest play :)
 

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Played up til 1360 BC.

Spoiler :
Settled 2w to hook up Grassland Sheep which my scout revealed.

Met Gilgamesh and Persia at first, pretty soon after Willem showed up.

Have expanded to four cities. Also met Holy Rome just now.

Scout got killed by barb Lion but managed to at least see where Sumeria's at and scout the nearest surroundings.

Techpath so far is Ag - AH - Wheel - BW - Archery (kinda scared of barbs, was a lot of them around my borders and since we didn't get any copper I thought better be safe than sorry, perhaps a misplay since we already had horses, but well well) - Pottery - Masonry. Thoughts are probably to aim for Literature soonish and build The Great Library since we have Marble. Maybe get some other Marble wonder as well while we're at it.

Also my first fogbusting warrior got killed by a barb archer, although it was fortified on a forested hill. Which also made me go strong on military techs early. Again, maybe a little bit of waste.

A lot of people in different religions should be to our advantage. Well, that's about it. Comments as always much appreciated.
 

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General question: with creative leaders do you tech writing ahead of pottery? For this game, the start doesn't exactly cry out for cottages though I do like starting them early - to clarify that's only from the opening screenshot so no spoiler tag.
 
Map dependant, but don't forget that pottery gives you a bit of a beaker discount on writing, and that a bit of early cottage spam can re-pay the cost of pottery fairly fast.
 
Also Granary is useful enough that even if cottages aren't needed you MAY still tech Pottery anyway. With Catherine whipping Settlers is nice, so regrowing is fairly common.
 
seems to me like early writing->aesth-->lit path is very strong here with the starting SS... seems like there is not much riverside anyway

inland sea is decent map, but I kinda overplayed it a bit lately

what I would watch out for is barb rush, which can be pretty nasty on such open map types especially on Immortal.

I kinda would settle 1W and agri->ah then either of archery/bw/writing depending on horses/neighbors distance...

not sure if you are east/west corner or straight in the middle. corner side would maybe mean no teching of archery.

middle well...I could see a case for archers if no horses.
 
Spoiler :
Settled in place since i could not see a good reason to move. Techpath was something like agri-> BW-> archery->pottery->AH+writing. I stopped research after writing and waited for my first GS for an academy and have now started AEST.
I stopped before 1 AD (200BC i think) and have 7 or 8 cities.

A cultural victory might be easiest here but i have done that a lot lately so i think i'll try a bit of warring instead.

I will post some pictures when i get home.

Never played this maptype before.



some screenshots
Spoiler :

My second city went here


If i get HR, OR and Judaism Gilgamesh,Darius, Sury and Brennus should be easier to deal with.


North


South


Darius declared on Brennus :)



Tech



 
580 AD immortal normal speed

Spoiler :

Darius decided to adopt confucianism so i went with free religion since i now had 2 neighbours with different religions. This also meant i couldn't use OR for better relations with Sury and Brennus.
The only wonder i finished was Shwedagon Paya, the rest magically turned to gold.

I settled another city in the SW so i now have 9. The plan is to get to cuirr. or cannons and go to war. Not sure who the target is going to be.

some screenshots and a save.

Confucianism has the AP benefits.


Gilgamesh declared war on Willem



relations



tech



very little trading so far




 

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900 AD, and the world is not a happy place.

Spoiler :
 
1585 AD, Domination, Deity, normal speed/settings

Spoiler :
This map was a lot of fun. Catherine's traits are great for REXing, which seems important on a script like Inland Sea, where a neighboring AI can get out of control if you're not quick to claim land.

I initially expanded to six cities, settling the capital 1W of the starting location:



A Settler was ready to claim the Ivory/Corn spot when Darius showed up. I can't remember the early tech path, but I did go for Pottery before Writing. You can see from the above screenshot that, without Pottery, my research would have tanked.

Six cities eventually became nine:



I gifted Yakutsk at the last minute to Gilgamesh. This brought him to pleased, and we remained at peace for the entire game.

I chopped out TGL in three turns. Won Lib in ~540 AD and took Nationalism. Some diplo shenanigans then ensued. I think I DOW'd against Lincoln, so that I could bribe Gilgamesh to also declare. Then Lincoln bribed Charlie to attack me, which lead to an AP resolution to declare war on Charlemagne. Then in 780 AD I launched a real attack against Darius:



And then there was another AP resolution, to declare war against Darius :crazyeye:

I moved in a counterclockwise circle, capping Darius, Brennus, Lincoln, Sury, and Willem. It was far too late to matter, but Willem had an awesome shrine:



After capturing that city, I turned up the culture slider and, a brief (ha) 18 turns later, limped over the land % limit:


Thanks for the game, klonoklown!
 
This was my first IMM game since learning how to tech effectively at high levels. Can't actually believe I popped Lib before 1100!
Spoiler :
My REXing was a bit poor, on account of past experience of tanking my economy on IMM, and there was no need for it to be so conservative; chopped TGW early (though corner start makes Barbs almost a non-issue, I love its synergy with IMP and CRE) settling on Stone bagged me Mids, and Parthenon and TGL were easy; balanced Cottages with Scientists (I'm now darn confident in the GAge > Phil/Caste business) and didn't tech Fishing so's I could bulb better stuff than Calendar. Rep scientists more than made up for upkeep whilst Cottages were growing. Being a big fan of Hannibal's GLH economy, avoiding all seafaring went a bit against the grain.

TGW gave me a GSpy to start with (would've been a GSci from another city, but I was running Scientists everywhere to grab Alphabet quick and forgot to slow down on GPP in Moscow); settled him, though ended up wishing I'd gone on a mission to Willem so's I could steal Engineering. Still got it in time to bulb Chemistry, though.

Brennus built Kashi and Solomon. I built a big army. I got DoW'd by Gilgamesh and Suryarvarman. The army got to the battlefield as Gigla's troops danced a jig in the open. Popped two GG's in one turn. Pope Willem ordered he knock it off. Surry's army arrived just in time to pop me another GG just before Willem told him to back off an' all. Couldn't have planned a better TGW/IMP war.

Bulbed my way towards Steel, upgraded a bunch of Catapult, and rushed at Brennus. I usually go for Rifles, Cavalry and Trebs, but herd good things about Cuirs, Cannon and Maces. Didn't work out for me; even with some undamaged Muskets, my Cannons ended up being best defenders and lost half of them to Elephants. Took a city and got reinforcements coming (and a third GG settled in HE city), but lost my momentum and calling it quits at that. If I'd REXed more, I'd have Oxford and would've been able to vassal Gilga rather than get teacher to stop our scuffle.
 
Monarch Conquest 1560 AD

Spoiler :
Built Mid's early with the stone to the south. Didn't build one cottage the whole game, well i think my automated workers did after i improved majority of the land, but mainly ran scientists to lib MT and went chain capping counter clock wise. When I got to sury upgraded to Cossacks and stomped the remaining AI.

I probably should have played on emperor, but haven't played Civ in a week so I thought I'd prefer a easier game.

 
played a bit more till 1600 AD

Spoiler :

I built the Taj Mahal by the time i started building cuirr. Declared war on Darius and took 3 of his cities after which he capitulated. I gave back one city that was on the border with Brennus.

By now i had cossacks to attack Brennus who capitulated after 3 cities as well and after him Gilgamesh(3 cities again). Everybody else has at least rifling so i can't fight another war for now.

Going for bombers or artillery next.

Never had a shot at Liberalism since Willem got it in 560 AD.
 
@lindsay40k

Spoiler :
This probably isn't the best map on which to use Cannons, but beelining Steel can be very strong. The crucial thing is to make sure that you're the one who's always attacking. Cannons, Cuirassiers, and Grenadiers all have a base strength of 12. Cannons receive no defensive promotions (apart from first strikes) but can promote through the City Raider line and inflict collateral damage, so kick ass on the offensive. Cuirassiers can receive some promotions well suited for defending (Pinch, Shock, Formation, or just plain Combat) but don't receive defensive bonuses. Grenadiers receive better defense promotions (Pinch, Shock, Combat, but also Drill, City Garrison, Guerilla etc.) AND they get defense bonuses from terrain.

If your opponent has Elephants and attacks a Cannon/Cuirassier/Musket stack, they will single out the Cannons because Elephants receive +50% vs. Mounted units, and Muskets only have a base strength of 9. This brings out the worst in Cannons, which are at their best when attacking a city and blasting multiple defenders with collateral. So if you beeline Steel and your opponent has Elephants, bring some Pikemen along for stack defense and tech to Military Science or Rifling ASAP.
 
@Doshin

Spoiler :
I think my schoolboy mistake was forgetting about Cossacks and trying an unfamiliar Cannon/Cuirs/Mace attack when I'm very comfortable with Cavalry/Treb/Rifle.
 
1080 AD
Spoiler :
Expanded peacefully to 10 cities plus two barbarian cities on Darius' border. Declared on Darius in 940 AD with a larger army than was necessary, he's ready to capitulate in 1080. Haven't decided whether he lives or dies, he hasn't been able to put up much of a fight and would go down without too much trouble. Plan on keeping Persepolis - pyramids, great wall and hanging gardens.

Going to lose lib, probably to Lincoln. I'm really not that good at the lib race. Gilgamesh seems asleep on his feet, Willem peace vassaled to Charlemagne after an early war with Sury. If I capitulate now, Brennus is a good target, he's been at war with Charlemagne for a while. Otherwise, I should build some courthouses. Heroic epic just opened up, National epic should be constructed very soon.

War with Darius before taking Ecbatana
Spoiler :

Most of my cities
Spoiler :


save is k-mod
 

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