Brave New World's 9 new Civs
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The only reason we're remembered at all nowadays is because we had Brazil as a colony for some hundred years? I'm sensing either ignorance or bias, and we need none of those here, thank you very much. Besides, the map you presented doesn't represent the Portuguese empire at its largest, as it has already been pointed out.
I do hope we're in, not only because there aren't enough maritime exploration civilizations in the game, but also because our colonial past is deeply tied to Africa, which makes sense in the African scenario. Furthermore, if Denmark, Austria, Sweden and others are in, it's actually baffling that they've waited again for the second expansion to include us. If we're not in, I think I'll pass on the expansion to be honest.
SkaisonFire
Warlord
It's just that I can't imagine a civ better suited for showcasing the new culural victory than Italy,or just focussing on great artists for that matter.
nunor
King
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Present!
- Adolf Daens
- Adolphe Sax
- Eddy Merckx
- Guido Gezelle
- Hercule Poirot
- Hergé
- Jacky Ickx
- Jacques Brel
- Jacques Rogge
- Jean-Claude Van Damme
- Pater Damiaan
- Paul-Henri Spaak
- the flemish primitives...
It was a satirical comment
I think you agree with me when I say Belgians are not the most united people of the world... (also, isn't Hercule Poirot a fictional character?... 
)SolInvictus
Warlord
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Hungarians and dark horses
This is my first time posting, so apologies if I screw up some formatting.
I think there is some evidence for a Hungarian Civ that's been overlooked.
1. Hungarian cities were not included in the Austria city list. The same thing happened with Swedish cities when Denmark was released and we got Sweden later. I haven't seen any discussion of that yet and I think it could be an important clue.
2. Usually, not always, city states come from the same general area as the city state that they replace. Thus, Sofia would tend to indicate the loss of a European militaristic city state not an Asian one.
3. We don't know which, if any, other city states have been replaced so I think the "either or option" about Vietnam or Hungary is misguided. We could have both, we could have neither.
That said. I think previous speculation about Hungary also applies.
1. It's one of the most historically powerful European civs not yet in the game.
2. It meets the ideological tilt of the game--having fascist, communist, and democratic governments in the 20th century.
3. The game is eurocentric, we'll see fewer non-European civs than we would like. (At least 3)
4. Yes, the hussar angle has been strongly developed, but we already have many cavalry uus. So "distinctiveness" doesn't really say much. They could go in a tourism and culture angle, say emphasizing a UB like baths, rather than a military angle for the civ.
Based on this evidence, I think Hungary has a 60-70% chance of appearing in BNW, with a line up looking something like this:
1. Poland Confirmed
2. Assyria Confirmed
3. Brazil Confirmed
4. Portugal 70-90% (Scramble for Africa, every civ since Civ3)
5. Zulu 70-90% (Scramble for Africa, every civ since Sid Meir emerged from the sacred benben)
6. Hungary 60-70% (see above)
7. Vietnam 60-70% (meets ideological & tourism angles, Hanoi CS shows they've been thinking about it since vanilla.)
8. Kongo 40-60% (Scramble for Africa, popular on forums--they're watching per Poland, they can select Nzinga--erroneously--as a leader)
9. Belgium 40-60% (Scramble for Africa, ideology & tourism themes)
Belgium is the most probable dark horse. It fits the scenario and theme. It will get in on narrow criteria, excluding more long-lived civs in Europe (Bulgaria) and across the world (Indonesia, Nubia, Gran Colombia, Cherokee, Burma, Khazars). Not that it's a desirable or planned goal, but a dark horse usually plays out along those lines. (Huns, Sweden, HRE, NA) Other less probable dark horse scenarios could be that we've already seen the dark horse (Brazil or Assyria) or a reverse dark horse where say the Zulu are excluded for another African civ such as Benin, Ife/Yoruba, Mbundu, or the Ashanti.
This is my first time posting, so apologies if I screw up some formatting.
I think there is some evidence for a Hungarian Civ that's been overlooked.
1. Hungarian cities were not included in the Austria city list. The same thing happened with Swedish cities when Denmark was released and we got Sweden later. I haven't seen any discussion of that yet and I think it could be an important clue.
2. Usually, not always, city states come from the same general area as the city state that they replace. Thus, Sofia would tend to indicate the loss of a European militaristic city state not an Asian one.
3. We don't know which, if any, other city states have been replaced so I think the "either or option" about Vietnam or Hungary is misguided. We could have both, we could have neither.
That said. I think previous speculation about Hungary also applies.
1. It's one of the most historically powerful European civs not yet in the game.
2. It meets the ideological tilt of the game--having fascist, communist, and democratic governments in the 20th century.
3. The game is eurocentric, we'll see fewer non-European civs than we would like. (At least 3)
4. Yes, the hussar angle has been strongly developed, but we already have many cavalry uus. So "distinctiveness" doesn't really say much. They could go in a tourism and culture angle, say emphasizing a UB like baths, rather than a military angle for the civ.
Based on this evidence, I think Hungary has a 60-70% chance of appearing in BNW, with a line up looking something like this:
1. Poland Confirmed
2. Assyria Confirmed
3. Brazil Confirmed
4. Portugal 70-90% (Scramble for Africa, every civ since Civ3)
5. Zulu 70-90% (Scramble for Africa, every civ since Sid Meir emerged from the sacred benben)
6. Hungary 60-70% (see above)
7. Vietnam 60-70% (meets ideological & tourism angles, Hanoi CS shows they've been thinking about it since vanilla.)
8. Kongo 40-60% (Scramble for Africa, popular on forums--they're watching per Poland, they can select Nzinga--erroneously--as a leader)
9. Belgium 40-60% (Scramble for Africa, ideology & tourism themes)
Belgium is the most probable dark horse. It fits the scenario and theme. It will get in on narrow criteria, excluding more long-lived civs in Europe (Bulgaria) and across the world (Indonesia, Nubia, Gran Colombia, Cherokee, Burma, Khazars). Not that it's a desirable or planned goal, but a dark horse usually plays out along those lines. (Huns, Sweden, HRE, NA) Other less probable dark horse scenarios could be that we've already seen the dark horse (Brazil or Assyria) or a reverse dark horse where say the Zulu are excluded for another African civ such as Benin, Ife/Yoruba, Mbundu, or the Ashanti.
blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
I would be very surprised (and frankly, disappointed) if both Hungary and Belgium made it in, at the expense of a Native American tribe - especially since the fact that they're introducing a Civil War scenario makes this a bit more likely, even though I would expect the Sioux based on them being a classic part of the franchise.
Heaven forbid Leopold in Civ. Although his introductory spiel would be... interesting.
"Dodgy King Leopold, will you found a colony as a front to your own immense personal gain? Will you create an atrocity whose infamy will stand the test of time?"
Hahaha, I imagine the voice-over narrator trash-talking Leopold but keeping the lofty, adulatory tone of voice, and it's wonderful.
nunor
King
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His beard would rival those of Ashurbanipal, Casimir and Pedro, though.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
You bring up some good points, though I still think of the Sofia-CS replacements Budapest-Hungary has the lowest chances of getting in.
1. This might be an interesting clue, or it might be simply that the devs wanted to keep the Budapest CS. I think with Denmark and Sweden the thing is that Denmark never ruled most of modern-day Sweden anyways, not to mention that in the civ series Scandinavia had always been lumped into one.
2. Not necessarily - according to the Civ 5 wiki here, Sydney replaced Copenhagen when Denmark came; Kathmandu replaced Seoul when Korea was introduced; Quebec city replaced Sweden's Oslo. So geographic closeness doesn't make much a difference.
3. At least in my reasoning it's not so much an either or option but rather the Sofia CS can only definitely confirm one out of three possibilities, but the fact that at least according to my speculation after all the other civs are filled out, the dark horses make it unlikely that two of the three Sofia CS possibilities will be in, if that makes sense.
Still, you do make good points. I think the strongest thing going for Hungary is that it's a European civ, and there's always been a good Eurocentric bias in the civ series. Whether Poland (confirmed) and Portugal (almost certain) count as "enough European civs" will have ot be seen.
Scaramanga
Brickhead
Agree. Brazil is to Portugal as America is to England. If the latter pair can coexist so can the former. I expect the Portuguese civ to focus more on their Indian Ocean trading so it was probably good to create a "spin-off" civ for Brazil.
oski90
Chieftain
Me too. Four European civs in the expansion seems like two too many. I want a diverse bunch of civs - different play styles, geographies, histories, eras, UU/UI/UAs. We certainly have that with the first three announcements.
The similarities with Rome pretty much end with the capital, and solutions for that aren't hard to envision.
I was pretty shocked that they gave Brazil a focus on "great creators". I suppose they could include another civ with a different spin, just as the Celts have a differnt spin on religion than Byzantium, but the bottom line is this: we seem to get what we ask for. Polynesia probably wasn't even a twinkle in their eye, but it wound up in the game, with a UA that mirrors one that had been proposed in these very forums.
So, if there are folks who want Italy, I say that there is every reason to be vocal about it. I remember when folks suggested that Germany precluded Austria, then that Austria precluded Poland. And here we are, because a segment of our community refused to let go of that bone.
Agreed. Brazil is tourism. Portugal is trade, probably with a naval focus.
And when it does get revealed, everyone note that once again the squeaky wheel received oil.
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Brazil and Poland are wheels that have been squeaking for a very long time. Italy and Hungary fanatics better be prepared to wait till Civ VII.
Dragonflow
Emperor
Really?
Brazil has a culture based UA, so what?
Firaxis can always have a different spin on it. Italy's UA could focus on great works instead of artists. While Brazil produces more Great Works thanks to their UA, Italy produces less but they have superior effects.
Let's also not forget that the Italians had a trade empire even before the Dutch or Portuguese thought of that. The Italian cities were the main trade powers of the middle-ages, their UA could focus on that as well.
SolInvictus
Warlord
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I think you also make some good points, especially point 1. Unfortunately, from the perspective of the devs I'd say that Seoul->Khatmandu = Asian and Copenhagen -> and Oslo -> Quebec = Western/European. I mean India and Asia have the same city graphics. That's not my perspective, but I'm not running the game. If I were we'd have every civ I mentioned in my post from Hungary to Nubia and more.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
I think you also make some good points, especially point 1. Unfortunately, from the perspective of the devs I'd say that Seoul->Khatmandu = Asian and Copenhagen -> and Oslo -> Quebec = Western/European. I mean India and Asia have the same city graphics. That's not my perspective, but I'm not running the game. If I were we'd have every civ I mentioned in my post from Hungary to Nubia and more.
Fair enough. I think your speculation list is pretty solid nevertheless and is similar to my list here except with the assumption of more Eurocentrism from the devs - the only one I'd be iffy on is Belgium, but they've done stranger things in the Civ series. Also a potential native American civ to replace the Pueblo which they cut, you might want to consider that - I'm pretty sure they're going to have one if they said they were about to add the Pueblo in the first place.
SolInvictus
Warlord
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I'd prefer diversity too, but my speculation is not based on my preferences but my interpretation of evidence that I've seen. I wasn't happy with the eurocentrism of the last expansion, but that's what we got. Five civs completely centered on Europe (Netherlands, Celts, Sweden, Austria, Spain) and three partially centered there, (Carthage, Byzantium, Huns due to Asian origin not their European empire). Only the Maya and Ethiopia were completely non-European choices. Personally, I'd really would hate to see Belgium get in and not Nubia, but we're not even talking about Nubia. I'm not very enthusiastic about Belgium and all, it's more of a sinking feeling of dread. Not that I don't think Belgium deserves to be in the game their are just many more civs I'd rather see included first.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
On the other hand, it's possible that the new expansion would try to go in an opposite direction than G&K. I suppose there's less of a chance that'd happen, but it's possible. There also doesn't need to be as many European civs as before - I think 3 European civs is the most likely number right now, in my opinion, though 2 or 4 are certainly possible as well.
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