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Old May 06, 2013, 10:43 AM   #1
Lib.Spi't
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Fallout: Tame The Wastes

LATEST NEWS:
05/05/2014
Alpha4 is here!

Fallout: Tame The Waste On ModDB Eye Candy Available Here With Download

Alpha4 Download Link (No longer requires patch)
A4PatchA Download Link (required for Downloads before 23rd May)
A4PatchB Download Link (required for Downloads before 30th May)
Alpha4 Sound Patch Download Link

The Download is now in two parts, Main and Sound.
To install simply put the unzipped Fallout Tame The Waste folder in your mod folder, then put the unzipped Assets (From the sound patch download) folder into the Fallout Tame The Waste folder.
Allow it to merge and overwrite when asked.
Be sure to delete any old sound folder you may have from previous versions before installing the patch.
(For More installation instruction see post #3)
New Content:

Alpha 4

Improvement Growth unlocked by Tech:
Now improvements will only begin to upgrade when you have researched the technology needed to build it.

Expensive Improvements:
It is now even harder to Improve the Wasteland as improvements are properly expensive! Hopefully there will be a lot less "I got too much money!" now.

Wasted Wasteland:
The Wasteland is now even more well... wastelandy... Less Ruins, Less Trees, and much more wasteland! It's brutal out there!

New Economics:
Bonus resources are now much more important, every building in the game is now boosted by having access to bonus resources, the more ya got the more ya get!
(this is still really early stage and will need additional 'Building Chains' to help take advantage of more resources and generally give you a more advanceable and tailorable {technical term} city economy. As well as the addition of more resources and also 'produced' resources.)

Vault Buildings:
Vaults now have their own set of buildings, so 'village' and 'vault' towns now produce there own kinds of building.
(Right now the general rule is that Vault buildings produce more of everything except culture and espionage, as they are more closed off from the world, Vault buildings also create more specialist slots.)

Vault Improvement:
You can now build an improvement on vaults, that also unlocks the ability to build certain buildings in your town (currently only 1 building, but we will add more eventually)

City Prereq Size for Units:
Now towns have to be a certain size to build units. (the better the unit the bigger the town size) This info can be accessed through the units pedia screen.

New Unit Graphics:
Lots of new unit graphics and faction specific art thanks to clanky.

New Scenario Map:
North America 2249 By BarbarianX

Known Issues:

Starting location 'Vault' Bug:
Still haven't managed to get the vault starting map bug fixed. In order for the game to run properly you need to start a new game, let it load to after the DoM screen, then quit to main menu and start a new game, then the game works properly and factions that need it will start with a vault.

DOWNLOAD: Alpha4 Release(Temporarily Disabled Due to technical Issues) Check Temp link at the top of the post


Fallout Tame The Wastes Will Include:

New GUI:

Including New Buttons By en_dotter
Including BUG Interface Options
Range Strength Display by The_J

New .dll:
K-Mod: Here
extrapillage: Here
Slavery: Here
Specialist Enhancement: Here
Civics Change Specialists: (can't find the mod thread...also would love someones help to merge this with the above so that happiness and health can change too)
TLOtags For Promotions: Here
Multiple Production Mod: Here (I think it is working right!)
Range Combat Experince from Realism Invictus (Range combat is a BIG part of the combat system)
Oppurtunity fire from DCM
Immigration Mod (I think from Orion)
City Size Prereq from Orion
Super Forts by Red Key
JRouteNative: By Jeckel Here
Work by our resident code guru Flitz
Code Pieces From Nightinggale
I think there may be some other bits as well, but I am having trouble remembering...

Reworked Civs: (Not Currently that Distinct)
Spoiler:

Wasteland Tribes: Low tech, high population, large spread, lots of weak units good against animals. Low upkeep from distance and number of cities (each is a self contained village loosely banded together with the other tribes).

The Masters Super Mutant Army: Super mutants, strong units, Slow growth, must harvest human populations to generate new supermutants, Perhaps only able to build a basic unit such as a 'slave/prisoner' that has to be upgraded to the better Super Mutant representing the need for a 'slave trade' infrastructure to grow the ranks of the army.

Brotherhood of Steel: Strong Power Armour based units, Slow growth, Fast Tech.

Enclave: Strong Power Armour based units, slow growth, fast tech, big unhappiness modifiers.

Raiders and Slavers: quick unit construction, unhappiness, low unit support costs, low financial abilities.

New California Republic: happiest Civ, good all rounders, no major wakness/strength, high refugee intake.

New Reno: Criminal fraternity, various 'black market' industries, ability to inflict negative affects on other civs through bad corporations, eg. 'Jet', etc.

Civilised Ghouls: Good tech, immune to radiation, positive effects from radiation, good health buildings, can build simple radiation based facilities, eg. 'Glowing One' hosipital, nuclear reactor, etc. Ghouls love the radiation. Possibly benefits from radiation tiles. Possibly through having the ability to build improvements on fallout tiles, perhaps by having a UU worker, this could add the interesting twist of the Ghoul Civ using Nukes to 'Terraform' the planet into a more comfortable environment for them hehe!


Every Civ will have it's own Unit and Building sets, some buildings will be replacements like UB's are now, other structures will be unique to a faction or factions, giving them a Unique advantage or disadvantage over other Civs. The same will be true for units. Each faction will have a Unique Playing style and your choice of faction will heavily influence the way in which you play the game.

Expanded Tech Tree:

Developing a Brand New Tech Tree with over 100 Post Apocalyptic Technologies

New Units:
Spoiler:

Power Armour
Vertibirds
Plasma Weapons
Laser Weapons
Cars and APCs
Super Mutants
Ghouls
Robots
Snipers
EMP weapons
MINIGUNS!!
A unique attempt to balance Melee & Shooting throughout all eras!
and more besides, with more to come!
Multiple Sub Unit types with strengths and weaknesses.
All kinds of Specialist Promotion trees, using the classic Fallout Tag! System.


New Terrain:

About +80% of resources have been replaced with Fallout Resources. Nuka Cola anyone?
Wasteland
Ruins
Vaults! The most prized collections of pre-war technologies (Very Important)
Pre-War Structures

New Buildings:

A host of new building
Buildings that can only be built with access to a Vault!

Sound and Music:
Custom Order and Select Sounds

Original Fallout Music by Mark Morgan http://www.markmorganmusic.com/


DOWNLOAD: Alpha4 Release(Temporarily Disabled Due to technical Issues) Check Temp link at the top of the post

Fallout: Tame The Waste On ModDB

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Old May 06, 2013, 10:44 AM   #2
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Old Forum Thread

Why Alpha?

This mod has been in development by myself for a number of years.

in the last 12 months I have been able to build a Dev Team to take the mod to a whole new level.

I have released an Alpha version to mark the completion of a fully working tech tree including buildings and units etc.

The Final Game concept is a long way from complete.

The game should now be more or less completely stable, there are some known issues and bugs, but these should no longer be game breaking (as of Alpha3) Obviously please let us know of any issues you encounter!

the game currently has a lot of missing content, including art, sound, text and a lot of faction specific content.

Even in this early stage, as a team we think we have made something really exciting, and we hope to develop a following that will help us test and develop balance for the many concepts that we have already developed, and those that have yet to see the light of day.

We are always looking for more team members to help with the development of the Mod, and in part this release is an advertisement for how far we have come, but also to demonstrate how much further we intend to take the mod and the help we want to get it there.

So come take a walk in the Wasteland! It awaits the birth of your Legend!

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Old May 06, 2013, 10:44 AM   #3
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Notes On The Current Build and Gameplay:

Installation:
In order for the mod to work, you must place it in the mods folder inside your BtS Installation, not in My Documents.
This is because the Mod has a custom Resource folder, for the new GUI.
Also the game must be 'Run as Administrator' Otherwise you will have no GUI in the game!

Difficulty:
It is recommended that you play on Noble Difficulty, as this is the only difficulty that has been modified to reflect the Wasteland and on a long game speed, I have only done tweak testing on the longest speed, so I don't know how balanced it is for shorter game speeds (but everyone will be on the same speed so meh..).

The Map:
Included in the download are 3 scenario maps, Random 1 and Random 2. The new map 'Tension' has been added to better simulate the start of the game, as it will be in the final Fallout scenario. All factions start together in the west and will expand eastward, this should give lots of oppurtunity to squabble, pillage and enslave each other! (I eventually want to make a mapscript like 'The Old World' (Is that right??) where everyone starts together on the same side of the map)
At the moment it is unwise to start as the Mutants or Ghouls on this new map as their starting position is awful, but it will be helpful when it comes time to implement and test the unique faction elements so....tough!

I suggest you use these as they have been 'fixed'. If you load a standard game, you will need to fix the map (See the map fix code in the above post) Otherwise certain factions will not found their starting city and lots of things will not work. (Like Barbarians)

Early Game:
The early game is different to standard bts, you cannot make settlers, improvements, or workers until you research them. It is recommended that you evenly develop the tech tree and not try to beeline to a tech.
Currently the early game is a little slow, I hope this will change with the completion of proper fallout maps where civs will start much closer together.
The general 'feel' we are trying to develop is one of a handful of people trying to survive, it takes time and work to rise to the point of becoming a town capable of meaningful expansion.

City Capture:

In order to capture cities, you must first research 'Conquest', this represents a factions ability to effectively control and 'repurpose' a town to their way of doing things.

Vaults:
Vaults are going to become a major part of the game (hopefully) right now they have two major impacts:
1) The Enclave, BoS and Super Mutants can only found settlements on Vaults.
2) Other Factions cannot found on top of Vaults
3) A settlement built on a Vault has access to unique vault buildings, there are only a few currently, but this will expand in the future.

Melee Vs Ranged:

In Fallout melee combat remains a viable option throughout the entire game, we are trying to capture this concept as well. The general rule of thumb is that melee units are stronger, but ranged units can inflict damage from one or more squares away, without risk of being hurt. This feature is still being balanced, but your feedback and reports on how it plays out would be greatly appreciated!

Raiding and Slaving:

Just because you cannot capture cities, does not mean you should neglect your fighters, pillaging does a lot more than give gold, you can get food production and research, even maps from pillaging tiles, for some factions this is a major part of their economy.
In order to capture slaves you need to have a unit in the attacking stack with a slaver promo. Slaves can then be taken to a slave market to be sold if you have the slavery civic, or another civic that allows slavery. Slaves are of particular importants to the Master's Army as only slaves can become Super Mutants (I think I may have changed this as I am not sure how well the ai is using slavery) (Infact at this moment I can't remember what hte current state of the SM recruitment/promotions tree). There are even some units that can attack and enter territory without declaring war(Deniable Operatives), some are even invisible. Use Sheriffs and other 'Security' units to patrol and guard your lands.

MSDOS Combat: MSDOS stands for 'Military Security Deniable Operatives System'.

In it's most basic terms it is a combat relation system like Rock/Paper/Scissors.

The Relationship is a Follows:

Military Beats Security

Security Beats DOps

DOps Beats Military

Military: These are the kinds of forces trained to fight conventional war and represent the majority of units currently in the game.

Security: These represent your Police and Guard Types, that can hunt down and discover Invisible DOps Units As well as providing 'Military Happiness' through protection and oppression.

DOps: These represent your Mercenary, Black Ops and Undesirable types, representing deniable assets that can enter enemy territory, fight and cause destruction and mischief without declaring war and without connection to their 'Sponsoring Faction' many of these units will be invisible to all but Security Forces, and will be able to employ guerilla style ambush tactics to overcome enemies of superior strength, using hills and forests and urban environments to conduct ruthless hit and run missions.

We are trying to blur the lines between war and peace, as well as the lines that mark borders. No longer do you have a magical barrier that automatically stops all would be intruders, if you want secure borders then you will have to MAKE them secure, stationing border security to watch over your beloved realm, to aid you in this improvements such as watch towers and forts can extend the line of site of units stationed within them, border defence improvements will also be expanded in future releases.

The effect I am trying to develop is one to better simulate building order out of chaos, and to reduce the feeling of safety that you as a leader feel. the best modern day example is that of Iraq and Afghanistan, where people are trying to make roads and towns safe, while lurking in the shadows are those who seek to hurt them and sow chaos. In the wasteland there are not simply mindless savages seeking to hurt you, but also malevolent guided forces lurking in the lonely and dark corners.

PatchA Notes:
Fixes corrupted save issue(will only work for new saves after patch)
Some Unit and Building fixes for the new features
Some other minor tweaks that snuck in while I was working.

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Old May 06, 2013, 10:45 AM   #4
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Post your Bugs and savegames here:

Bug Thread<---

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Old May 06, 2013, 10:46 AM   #5
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We Need Your Help:


Interested in helping out?
Join Our Team!

Heres How:

Contact Me Via PM

Thoughts and Suggestions:
New Ideas and peoples interest always helps to motivate me, (why make a mod if no one wants to play) I also love a good debate!

Coders:
The More Skill, the more features.

ART:
I have minimal art skills and I mean MINIMAL!! all art related work would be great, whether you make buttons, leaderheads, units, or any other graphics. I need you!
I will eventually hope to make an 'Art Wishlist'
If you are interested in helping, please post here or PM me!

Testers:
We Can always use new people to put the latest builds through their paces and shake out the bugs!

The Current Mod Team:
Me! (Everything under the sun....my head hurts)
En_dotter (Button Artist and XML Content Writer)
Grey Warden (Tester)
Deadomancer (Tester and Content Writer)
clanky4 (The Robotech XML Entry Machine! Unit Artist)
Flitz (Code Maestro)
Nighttinggale (Coder and Confuser of My Brain!)
Isenchine (Fathomer of the Unfathomable!)
and the Civfanatics Community for all your help and wisdom!
Big thanks for your help Chaps!

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Old May 06, 2013, 08:53 PM   #6
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I am very much looking forward to the long awaited release of this!
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Old May 07, 2013, 02:52 AM   #7
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Wait No Longer! Release the hounds, centaurs and hyper intelligent Deathclaws!!

THE ALPHA IS HERE!!!!!!
(we are currently exploring mirrors for the download as well)
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Old May 07, 2013, 11:21 PM   #8
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Okay, first game, repeatable CTD around turn 100. My second game is going pretty well.

A few changes I strongly recommend:
1. Increase food consumption per pop to 3 (this is in global defines)
Without this, growth is way to fast. There are a few other growth modifiers in global defines, increasing these a little would also help

2.Way too much happiness. Several doctrines give happiness per unit and a few give more than one. What sizes do you want to be average at each stage of the game? Regardless, the happiness from units on doctrines needs to be toned down.

3.Units are too cheap. All units were built in 1-2 turns by the time I was able to build settlers. Also, improvements only took a few turns. These should be more expensive to make pillaging more devastating.

Overall, I love the feel you've given to this game, and its already fun. I look forward to following the progress of this mod.
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Old May 08, 2013, 12:33 AM   #9
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thanks for the feedback random, very helpful, could you post your save game in the bug thread for me, I intend to add a link to the bugthread as well soon.

1. Food: this could well be true. The overall plan, when I find where a bunch of things are controlled, is to make city sizes more literal, so for example, each size increase represents say 5 to 10 people or a family. So for instance, size 10 reperesents 100 people in an approximation. This will obviously require a lot of balancing etc. Also in the 'classical' era (era cosmetics haven't been changed yet) you can build immigrants (if I got it working right ) that will take 2 pop from a city and allow you to increase another city by 1 pop, allowing you to have more control over population growth and distribution. Another idea I am toying with is that units will cost 1 pop as well, maybe. So with these factors in the mix, the pop growth may not feel so fast as it does now.

2. Happiness: Yes this does need balancing, the plan is to have a lot more unhappiness kicking around, so buildings and things will cause a lot of unhappiness, especially for certain civs. For example if you look at the leader traits, some factions have a starting negative to unhappiness, and this will be a 'theme' continued throughout that faction, so they will have a higher than average unhapppiness from lots of buildings. Also (again if I have understood the code and got it working right) most military units will not give happiness to a city, so the civic military happiness will only apply to a very limited number of units (mainly those designed for defence) which means you will have to build the right units to gain the happiness. Also civics like slavery and human testing are going to have very high unhappiness (I think human testing gives -10 at the moment) as will their attendant buildings, so you will need to maintain a strong military presence across the board to ensure the rabble doesn't take control. This is all still fairly conceptual at the moment, but will increase as we develop more and more of the details and develop the faction identities.

3. Units: Again you may be right, but if you only got to settlers then I think you will have only had access to basic units (perhaps militia is your most advanced?) These units are somewhat cheap by design, it should not take a town more than a week or two to give a guy a machete or some basic armour, so these guys are quick to make (as frankly they are by design a bit rubbish and will more often than not get eaten as soon as they leave your borders) Once you get into proper weapons and training, the units should (hopefully) start to take 6-8 turns (about 6-8 weeks) to build. This may or may not be true right now, but that is the goal, at least for era 1 and 2 units..

4. Improvements: Again you may be right, the general plan is to keep the 'first stage' improvements fairly cheap and then increase costs for the more expensive ones, the first tier improvements kind of represent a small 'unprofessional' group trying to scratch out a living, with a few tools and a little camp etc. the latter tiers will represent the development of a proper business, with an infrastructure and more advanced equipment which will represent a much bigger investment of time and money...and Spoils!! (Raiders!!!)

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Old May 08, 2013, 11:07 AM   #10
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Perhaps with your planned additions these will be true, but the trends I mentioned continued and got worse as the game went on. As soon as I got new units, I could build them in 1-2 turns. I should mention that I was playing as the Civilized Ghouls, but I don't think that should effect the areas I have mention too much. Also, the AI seems very weak right now. I know that is to be expected, but I had reached the Industrial era and none of the AIs I met even had settlers.
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Old May 08, 2013, 01:46 PM   #11
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hmmm.. that is strange...

I usually find them quite competitive...

did you use one of the scenario maps? and did Enclave, BoS and super mutants found their starting city? you will no if they didn't as there will be no barbs.

What speed and difficulty were you playing?

at the moment unit costs were just kind of arbitrary, so it is good feed back to know they are all still too cheap, it sounds like we need to x4 the cost.

if you can send me a copy of your crash save game as well that will be great, I really need as much data as possible to try and that bug.. I am glad you made it to the industrial era!

How have you found the range/melee mechanic how do you feel it is playing right now?
I want this to be one of the big parts of the mod and I really want it to balance well!
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Old May 08, 2013, 06:56 PM   #12
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I did use the scenarios and there were barbs. I played on epic, then, after making the changes I mentioned, I played on normal. That's the game in which I got to Industrial.

I can't really comment on combat too much as the AI was so far behind, it was irrelevant. Do you plan to make more units that can take cities, because there doesn't seem to be many right now. It isn't a big deal though, I am just curious.
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Old May 08, 2013, 07:34 PM   #13
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You have to research conquest and that opens up the ability to conquer cities, the basic concept is that this will avoid 'crush rush' when the civs are closer together
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Old May 08, 2013, 09:11 PM   #14
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Yes, I get that, but from what I understand, there are certain units that have a (can capture cities) thing on the end of their name that are clones of other units in every other way. I haven't actually tried to conquer with anything else, but they say they can't in the tool tips.
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Old May 08, 2013, 11:31 PM   #15
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Yes they are clones of the main 'bulk' units in essence. But also things like the apc units should be able to capture as well.
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Old May 09, 2013, 01:51 PM   #16
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Yeah, like I said, I didn't look very hard since the AI was so behind.

I been thinking about the imbalance problem and I think I've figured it out. The yields per pop are way off currently. Early game, everything takes forever to do, however, as soon as you get your first worker out, your production and science triple. It is easy to get 2-3 production per pop, 2-3 food per pop, and 5-10 commerce per pop, with nothing more than lumber camps and salvage camps, both of which are available very early on. Once you reach mid-game, this gets even worse with civic giving you multiple free specialists and 2-3 extra commerce on each specialist, it's no wonder that everything is built in 1-2 turns. If you changed lumber camps to 1 production and salvage camps to 1/1/1, I think many of the problems would go away. The costs of things still need to be adjusted, but I think this is the root of the problem.
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Old May 09, 2013, 05:18 PM   #17
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The basic concept is to make everything more literal, so the idea is that 6 coin is literally 6 coins(or bottle caps) per week so it becomes not so much. The problem with balance right now is that we just picked an amount, and all our testers got busy just as we needed everything tested so right now we are at the point of trying to find out what our cost numbers need to be, part of the reason I released the alpha was an attempt to entice new people on to the team, testers, artists, whatever. So what your goes have shown is the we need to increase our costs by about 4x at least as a premise. I am still not sure why the so all lagged behind in your game.. Some teams do, usually because they have a poor start location. But in my games there are usually at least 2 pretty solid contenders..

The reason for the wood cutter providing gold is that if you don't have ruins I found your science was screwed. I do still need to play around with the early phase to try and inject some more fun and excitement, maybe some random events with moral choices that can help you advance in different ways..

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Old May 09, 2013, 05:20 PM   #18
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Just in case you have it set easier, I have been testing on noble difficulty.
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Old May 09, 2013, 08:51 PM   #19
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Yeah, I've been playing on Noble. If you want the numbers more literal, that's fine too. You just need to adjust the cost of everything accordingly. Either way will work. One thing that you should think about though is that % modifiers more strongly affect larger yields, so if you are going to inflate everything, be careful where you use % modifiers.
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Old May 10, 2013, 03:51 AM   #20
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Yeah like I said, we just got to play out the balance and play with the numbers till we find the sweet spot. It's all still experimental and theoretical at the minute
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