SGOTM 19 - The Shawshank Redemption

Playing shortly... I'll start off by taking a bunch of Turn 37 screenshots so that I can compare against them for Turn 38.

approve.

If you got OMFG to approve it must be good!

Good luck, Dhoom. May the Force be with you!

Turn 37, 2520 BC
1: Switch to Axe
1: 2-pop-whip Axe
1: Pig + 2 Sci
2: Corn + Copper
EDIT: 2: Still on Axe
3: G Sugar
3: Still on Granary
Open Borders with:
- Huayna
- Alex
- Napoleon
- Oops, Toku won't do it
- Kublai
Current AI-AI Open Borders agreements are:
Toku + Nappy
Huayna + Alex
Huayna + Kublai
Huayna + Nappy
Kublai + Nappy
Too many to bother tracking...
EDIT: Screenshotted F4 RELATIONS. It will be easy to check for changes this way

1. Asoka threatens with Archers
2. Set Flasks to 30
Aesthetics GNP = 38
Iron Working GNP = 41
Someone else can do the math
EDIT: What do you know? LC filled out the entire table for us.
EDIT: 41 - 38 = 3; 30 Flasks ... 0 Column = 37; 37 + 3 = 40; 40 = 3 AIs know Iron Working (assuming 0 know Aesthetics)
Code of Laws again
Fix up citizen assignments again
This procedure would probably work better if we had numbers lower than 30 Flasks, so that I don't make a mistake with switching squares Yay, the table was updated already.
3. Screenshot the Power graph
4. Constantinople raw EP data:
Sabotage Production = blank
Support City Revolt = 637
Please tell me if I'll need to record down more than these 2 numbers (it has been a while, so I forget) Yes, it looks like those 2 numbers will be sufficient, but blank = we have no clue for this turn.
5. OMG. Seriously? Okay, here goes...
Asoka's Cow has been improved
Constantinople-2W PHFor partial Road
6. Screenshotted F9 DEMO
7. Screenshotted F4 GLANCE
8. F4 TECHS has nothing on it; F4 RESOURCES only has Asoka wanting our Copper
9. Constantinople = Size 6
10. Saved
11. Turned on Show Friendly & Enemy Moves and turned off all quick moves... also, turned off Stack Attack and double-checked that Workers Start Automated is off

Other:
Our Warrior could steal Kublai's Worker next turn. His empire is at the top middle of the map. I don't think it makes sense to do so, since we can't make Peace or Cease Fire, but I thought I'd mention it.

Oh... does anyone know if we are allowed to make Peace or Cease Fire if an AI declares war on us? I meant to check, but haven't checked yet.

Medina (Alex's 2nd City) has G Pig and a Gem (although the Gem is hidden under a Jungle)

I think that I will just spam text in new messages and can consolidate the useful info into a single turnset report later.

No to worker stealing on KK... Worker will not make it back in time for the early push (if ever), and it will be eons before we are allowed to make peace with him.

From the rules thread:

3) You may not offer nor accept peace or cease fire in any war declared by you until an enemy city is captured or one of your cities is lost by capture, or the war is ended by UN/AP resolution.

(the emphasis is even in that tread itself)

So if an Ai declares on us, we could make peace as usual.

Turn 38, 2480 BC
We advance the turn and hit Print Screen a whole bunch, but only noted a few things:
1. I forgot to take a screenshot of the Scores last turn, in case we want to see them (fortunately, everyone has access to that saved game), so I'll do so now for this turn
2. Kublai's Worker finished a Road on a square that looks like it is 1NE of his City, so it would be suicidal to grab the Worker:

3. No hint of Asoka's research item was spotted, either visually or with a screenshot

Turn 38, 2480 BC Continued
Thanks, Jastrow.
1: Switch to Axe
1: 4 = Pig + Copper + 2 Sci (Axe in 1)
2: 3 = Corn + FP + G For (Axe in 1)
I rename our Workers as Worker 1 and Worker 2 (assuming that we'll capture many future Workers, we'll probably end up renaming most of them anyway) and I number them with Ctrl + 1 and Ctrl +2. They both move to the P For at Trumpster-1NW
Axe 1 (our northern Axe) doesn't spot any of Asoka's units
1. After about 35 clicks, Asoka claims that he has a Santa Archer (Ho Ho Ho)
2. 29 Flasks
Aesthetics + Horseback Riding GNP 37
Iron Working GNP 40
Set Research back to Code of Laws
40 - 37 = 3; 29's 0 column = 36; 36 + 3 = 39; 39 = 3 AIs know Iron Working
3. Asoka's Power remains constant (our has gone up)
4. Asoka has 46 Hammers in a build item
5. OMG, here we go.
Constantinople-SE-S PHFor: 1 turn into a Road
Constantinope-2W PH: still 1 turn into a Road but the Forest disappeared (at least Asoka isn't making that many raw Hammers per turn!)
I take a screenshot of Asoka's area to help me better track future Forest disappearances
6. Land Area numbers
Turn, Value, Rival Best, Rival Avg, Rival Worst, Rank
T37, 41000, 43000, 36166, 29000, 3
T38, 41000, 47000, 39000, 29000, 4
7. F4 GLANCE: The only change is Alex going from Cautious to Pleased toward Toku while staying at 0 (a Score change probably is the reason)
8. No one knows Alphabet or Currency; no new Resource Trades available
9. Constantinople is still Size 6
10. Saved

Turn 38, 2480 BC Continued
No change on the F4 RELATIONS screen
Alex has Horse connected in his capital's big fat cross
Mecca = Size 5, in case we care
I don't think that this turnset is the one to be checking to see if AIs are building a Wonder... I have too many other things to track and it's not on the list of requests, so I won't be checking production values for Cities other than Asoka's
We do not steal Kublai's Worker

Dhoomstriker said:

Turn 38, 2480 BC Continued
1. After about 35 clicks, Asoka claims that he has a Santa Archer (Ho Ho Ho)

Click to expand...

Hmmm... Is it necessary to click the leaderhead to get this information?? I though that HoFmod/Buffy did that for you? I though all you had to do was look at which units they had in the defense advisor strategy tab, and that it would give you the same information. Is that not correct?

Turn 38, 2480 BC Continued
Event Log stuff:
Toku founded Lalibela for a total of 3 Cities... all other AIs have 2 Cities

Turn 39, 2440 BC
Crud, I hit Pause a whole bunch instead of Print Screen, so we still didn't see what Asoka is researching; sorry. We should hopefully get to see next turn, especially if I have my finger on the right button but also perhaps just "naturally" via EPs
Asoka's Score climbed by 26 up to 231
1: Build Axe
1: Pig + Marble + 2 Sci (4 Hammers into Axe)
2: Corn + FP + G Sugar Riv (growth in 1)
2: Build Axe
Workers complete the Trumpster-1NW Road
Axe3: Uses that Road
Axe4: Takes the northern route

Asoka's Scout is adjacent to Kublai's area and seems to be heading north-west of there... Asoka has already met everyone, anyway, though, so no biggie
We reveal Kublai's second City of Barcelona, which has a connected source of Horse
Alex's capital of Mecca is now Size 6 with 4 Archers in it... Settler soon, anyone?
We reveal the western edge of the map, which is next to Mecca's big fat cross' Cultural Borders and do not see a Railroad there
Axe1 does not reveal any of Asoka's units when he reveals Asoka's G Corn Road Farm square
I notice that Amsterdam-1SE is a P For, not a G For like we see in the test game, in case that fact matters

@Jastrow: I do not know for sure. I will have to test out the possibility later (unless you want to test it out now with various combos of an AI having Horse in their Cultural Borders, having it Pastured but not Roaded, and having it both Roaded and Pastured, to see what the differences on the F5 STRATEGIC ADVANTAGES screen might be. For now, all I see on F5 STRATEGIC ADVANTAGES is:
For Asoka = Resources Ours Copper, Resources Theirs Ivory
For everything else on the screen = ? (question marks)

Turn 39, 2440 BC Continued
1. I'm giving up for now after more than 80 clicks to see what Asoka threatens us with
2. 31 Flasks; Aesthetics and Horseback Riding GNP Value 38; Iron Working Value 42; switch back to Code of Laws; 42 - 38 = 4; 31's 0 value = 38; 42 in that column = 3 AIs
3. Asoka's Power graph remains constant, while ours has climbed to match his; once we upload, team A$$ will know that we're building up a military force
4. 65 Hammers in Constantinople (Settler would be my guess)
5. Here we go again...
Asoka finished the Road at Constantinople-SE-S on the PH For there
He did not finish the Road at Constantinople-2W on the PH
6. No change in the Land Area values
7. The only change on the F4 GLANCE screen is Alex going back to Cautious toward Toku at 0 (Alex went from 4th place to 3rd place)
8. No tech trading or Gold trading available. No changes to the Resource trading situation
Also, no changes to the F4 RELATIONS screen
9. Constantinople is still at Size 6
10. Saved a paused version of the saved game (I had saved a paused version last turn, too)

"Asoka's Score climbed by 26 up to 231"

Is there any obvious source for this? Did you notice any population changes, for example... Clearly he did not build a wonder as that would have been anounced... 26 sounds like too much for population to me... Could it be that he has just founded a new city? Or is it a tech+population?

Dhoomstriker said:

@Jastrow: I do not know for sure. I will have to test out the possibility later (unless you want to test it out now with various combos of an AI having Horse in their Cultural Borders, having it Pastured but not Roaded, and having it both Roaded and Pastured, to see what the differences on the F5 STRATEGIC ADVANTAGES screen might be. For now, all I see on F5 STRATEGIC ADVANTAGES is:
For Asoka = Resources Ours Copper, Resources Theirs Ivory
For everything else on the screen = ? (question marks)

Click to expand...

I am on my way to work, so cannot test now... Will look into it a bit later, but if everything else is "?", then it sounds like it does not work... I though it was say the he has only archers based on what he treatens with....

Turn 39, 2440 BC Continued
1. After another fifty tries, Asoka still won't talk, so I'm giving up on asking what he threatens with for this turn

Turn 40, 2400 BC
Asoka is researching Alphabet and is 6 turns away from learning it. Could he bribe Napoleon against us?
I quickly Lightbulb Math, select Civil Service, and save the game... I've had nightmares about messing up that step
1: 2-pop-whip Axe
1: Pig + Corn (growth in 1)
2: 2-pop-whip Axe
2: FP + Copper (growth in 4)
Asoka's capital has 1 Settler and 2 Archers inside of it:

Turn 40, 2400 BC Continued
I should mention that I have seen no sign of Barb units
The turn before we got a Great Scientist, someone else got a Great Scientist in a far away land
The Philosophy Religion (as well as the Theology + Divine Right Religions) are still unfounded
Our Workers move to the G at Trumpster-2W and Road
Alex's Worker moved to the G Riv For 1N of his capital, so he's probably going to Chop it
Mecca is quite the nice capital... two Wheats (one is irrigated now), Gold, Horse, G Riv For squares, and 4 Plains Hills squares... I expect at least one Wonder will be built there, at the far west edge of the map
We have revealed a Size 4 Madrid, which has a lot of water in it but has good production with a P Cow and a G Copper... it is where Stonehenge was built
Madrid has a Combat II Spear, a Combat II Axe, and an Archer defending it
1. What is on my mind, Asoka, and what you can do for me, and what you can do for our mighty empire, and how you can be of assistance, is to stop bickering about your bitter enemy Alex and try to scare me with threats of your military units! (Maybe he won't if our Power is too high?) I'm giving up for now.
2. 21 Flasks (no more Scientist Specialists, remember?); GNP Value of 26 for Aesthetics + Horseback Riding; 29 for Iron Working; Switch back to Civil Service (actually, I could have stayed on Civil Service, duh); 29 - 26 = 3; 21 Flasks' 0 Column = 26; 26 + 3 = 29; 29 = still only 3 AIs know Iron Working
3. Both Asoka's and our Power graphs' values remained constant, tied with each other
4. Asoka just completed a build item... clearly, it was the Settler
5. Here we go...
Still 1 turn showing on the Constantinople-2W PH square's Road, so it was obviously an abandoned project
No further Forests appear to have been Chopped
6. No change to Land Area, but we're definitely behind on GNP and Mfg. Goods values
7. Alex is Pleased at 0 toward Toku again, now that Alex is 4th (Toku is 6th) and we're in 3rd
Huayna toward Nappy: -4 Cautious to -3 Cautious
Nappy toward Huayna: -2 Cautious to -1 Cautious
They just got +1 for Open Borders
Other, already existing, +1 for Open Borders values exist between:
Huayna + Kublai
Huayna + Alex
8. No one offers techs or Gold. No new Resource trading options.
9. Constantinople went down from Size 6 to Size 5
10. Saved a paused game
No new AI-AI Open Borders agreements on the F4 RELATIONS screen
I don't understand the Scoreboard... last turn, we saw Asoka with:
231+26
This turn, we see him with:
224+12

Anyway, the only relative position change this turn was the one already mentioned... us moving to 3rd and Alex moving to 4th

Yes, Asoka will only threaten us with his archers if he is more powerful than us.
Well played so far!

T41, 2360 BC
Kublai sends his Worker into his capital, presumably to get new orders or possibly to run from a Barb unit
Alex founds City #3... so far, only he and Toku (besides us) have 3 Cities
1: Pig + Marble + Silk (Axe in 1, growth in 3)
2: Corn + Copper (Axe in 1, growth in 2)
3: FYI, growth in 3
We spot a Barb Warrior to the south of Trumpster (Trumpster-5S)
Asoka is down to researching Alphabet in 7 turns' time

T41, 2360 BC Continued
Constantinople has 2 (currently unpromoted) Archers
Constantinople-NE-N G Corn has 1 Settler and 1 unpromoted Archer on it
I think that consensus was to let him found a 3rd City and hopefully drag 2 Archers toward his 3rd City, rather than capturing a "Worker" and having Asoka hunker down in his capital with 5+ Archers
We move Axe 3 1SW to the GH and we spot Asoka's Worker Roading the Rice... it just arrive there and put 1 turn into the Rice

T41, 2360 BC Continued
I think that I will leave most other units unmoved and will just report stats before stopping play for the night.
1. It is apparently pointless to ask what Asoka threatens us with, as our Power is above his. For what it is worth, F5 STRATEGIC ADVANTAGES still lists Copper for us and Ivory for Asoka
2. 23 Flasks; GNP Value of 25 for Civil Service; 29 for Iron Working; 29 - 25 = 4; 23 Flasks' 0 value = 28; 28 + 4 = 32; 32 = FOUR AIs know Iron Working... but one of them can't be Asoka, since he's busy with Alphabet
3. Asoka's Power graph's value just went up, which is consistent with the new Archer that we see
4. Unknown production value in Constantinople due to having just completed the Archer
5. Mousing over...
1 turn into the Rice, obviously
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh... 1 turn into a Road on the G For 1NW of the Rice... time to get giddily excited!
Still that partial & abandoned Road at Constantinople-2W on the PH


By the way, if there is any request, like to see certain screenshots or saved games, try to make those requests very soon, otherwise they'll have to wait until tomorrow to be fulfilled.

6. Land Area values' changes:
Turn, Value, Rival Best, Rival Avg, Rival Worst, Rank
40, 41000, 47000, 39000, 29000
41, 41000, 55000, 43833, 35000
7. F4 GLANCE
Only 1 change... Huayna went from -3 Annoyed to -4 Annoyed toward Asoka for having a Heathen State Religion
8. No new techs, no Gold for trade, no Resource trade changes
9. Constantinople regrew to Size 6
10. Saved a paused game
No changes to Open Borders agreements. We can cancel ours with Asoka in 5 turns, assuming that we haven't declared war on him by then