SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sheepish is the city most at risk. It has no border expansion, so barbs can attack sooner, and it has no cultural defense or hill bonuses:
With an Axe (using WB):
I can easily whip an Axeman instead of slow-building an Archer. With careful tile-management, we will have an Axe and an Archer:
Barbarians in the north aren't so bad:
The biggest annoyance (or worry) in the north comes with the Rice:
I am now very keen to push hard to capture Constantinople at a good date. If barbarians begin to invade ~T60, then TGW becomes very valuable. You will see that my last three screenshots are taken from T62, and that capturing TGW moves two Archers and an Axeman out of our territory.
If we capture TGW, then we can stop thinking about units after ~T62. We just need Axemen to guard prospective city spots, and explore.
There's no way that Asoka will survive the barb onslaught, if they all head to his last city.
----
So, the general plan (in theory...):
I assume that we will find some AI with gold. But if not, we will need to stop running the slider for at least one turn before we capture Constantinople.
I think that we should have enough gold to reach Literature, as long as we can trade for Polytheism. We can also build
if units are no longer needed.
----
If everyone agrees with the basic outline, I can write up a PPP.
Spoiler :
With an Axe (using WB):
Spoiler :
I can easily whip an Axeman instead of slow-building an Archer. With careful tile-management, we will have an Axe and an Archer:
Spoiler :
Barbarians in the north aren't so bad:
Spoiler :
The biggest annoyance (or worry) in the north comes with the Rice:
Spoiler :
I am now very keen to push hard to capture Constantinople at a good date. If barbarians begin to invade ~T60, then TGW becomes very valuable. You will see that my last three screenshots are taken from T62, and that capturing TGW moves two Archers and an Axeman out of our territory.
If we capture TGW, then we can stop thinking about units after ~T62. We just need Axemen to guard prospective city spots, and explore.
There's no way that Asoka will survive the barb onslaught, if they all head to his last city.
----
So, the general plan (in theory...):
- 9–10 unit stack, composed on T58, attacking on T62.
- Sheepish: whips a second Axe and OFs to an Archer, so that it has two defenders during the turns that the SOD moves away.
- Golden Sands: receives an Axe from Rice Pudding ~T60.
- SOD: captures Constantinople on T62. TGW
worship saves us.
I assume that we will find some AI with gold. But if not, we will need to stop running the slider for at least one turn before we capture Constantinople.
I think that we should have enough gold to reach Literature, as long as we can trade for Polytheism. We can also build
if units are no longer needed.----
If everyone agrees with the basic outline, I can write up a PPP.
No, they come a little before. In the real game, the AI have fewer cities, so the 5th city might be the trigger there. (total cities = 3* # of players)
True. We can wait until T57/8 to decide whether we want to perform another 1-pop whip, to produce an Axe + Archer, or whether we want to ignore the Axe, because we feel safe with a single Archer.
----
I will start and try to finish (depending on time) a PPP tonight.
I hope to play tomorrow.
PPP:
Overview on T58:
The stack (collected on T59):
If we have not traded for with the AI, we will drop the science slider on T58 and change the following:
The Worker movement in the south is subject to change after ~T55.
The good news is that we don't need to capture any more Workers. Most of these can be used to prechop Forests and improve tiles that we cannot yet work.
The capital is over-Cottaged in my tests (one too many). This may or may not change yet. I'm not sure. It's too far ahead.
One tile to Asoka still needs to receive a road. I could write this into my micro, but I assume that a captured Worker (or 2, or 3) will be available at some point.
Will post a little about exploring in my next post. I have to go now.
Spoiler :
@ 100%.Overview on T58:
Spoiler :
The stack (collected on T59):
Spoiler :
If we have not traded for
with the AI, we will drop the science slider on T58 and change the following:Spoiler :
The Worker movement in the south is subject to change after ~T55.
The good news is that we don't need to capture any more Workers. Most of these can be used to prechop Forests and improve tiles that we cannot yet work.
The capital is over-Cottaged in my tests (one too many). This may or may not change yet. I'm not sure. It's too far ahead.
One tile to Asoka still needs to receive a road. I could write this into my micro, but I assume that a captured Worker (or 2, or 3) will be available at some point.
Will post a little about exploring in my next post. I have to go now.
Some points of contention from my micro, all minor.
This is mostly FYI, but feel free to give your opinion, if you have one (on #1 and #3 especially).
- On T49, Case Départ works a Grassland Forest > Spices. The +1F means that, on T54, we can work the Hamlet > Corn.
Total yield of Corn + Spices = 6F 2H 1CNaturally the yield is lower, but I value commerce in the capital above food, at this point. No builds are slowed down by this, so I think it makes good sense.
Total yield of GF + Hamlet = 4F 1H 3C
- On T56, Case Départ is building a Settler. I work the Hamlet > Corn. We exchange 3H for 3C, so not an issue I think.
- On T58, the capital's OF goes into an Axe. I keep the capital at size 5 (21) for this reason. The Axe will be build on T60 and could reach Sheepish on T62.
With changes to the micro, I can grow the city on T58, i.e. size 6, unhappy for a turn. The OF would go into a Settler instead, and on T59 the unhappy citizen is gone.
Which do you prefer?
- On T58, Sheepish builds an Axe, with the intention of whipping this on T59 and completing an Archer with the OF on T60.
Instead, on T58, I can build an Archer, which will complete (slow build) on T59 with 26/25H.
The decision here regarding the build can be decided closer to the time.
This is mostly FYI, but feel free to give your opinion, if you have one (on #1 and #3 especially).
Fully agree with the latter part, however (just for insurance if we were to miss out on the free workers) just figure out which worker would go in order to spend 3 turns+moving to get the road done (I'm assuming we want the road done T60 so T57 worker should get in range so that 58-59-60 are roading).
Rice Pudding seems quite nice. Can't go through all the PPP right now but I'll try to at a later time.
1. Agree. More food right now is wasted until we gather the commerce required to boost our happiness... so Commerce is king for now.
2. Just out of curiosity, what's RicePudding doing at this turn?
3. Where would the settler go? I see no suitable location in immediate area. There will be limited use for Axes but we may need a few for barb cities/clearing up Asoka.
4. See above. However it'd be nice to save this city a bit to grow cottages a bit sooner.
~~~
After the war (and upon acquisition of Monarchy) I think we should pillage copper and get some cheap warriors. So if there's mileage available for a few extra axes before then, it does make sense to get the few extra from Sheepish and Case Depart.
Looks good of the plan.
One thing that we have not really discussed is the site of 5th city, how about on the PH 1N of the cow, we delay the access to the Corn, but gain 1H from city center from the beginning and more green tiles to work later on. This city can chop a monument 1st and then granary.
One thing that we have not really discussed is the site of 5th city, how about on the PH 1N of the cow, we delay the access to the Corn, but gain 1H from city center from the beginning and more green tiles to work later on. This city can chop a monument 1st and then granary.
Exploration:
The Axe is 1S of the Ivory.
It looks like another Lake is located 4W1S of Golden Sands.
If you squint hard at the last two pictures, you can see that there is land 3W1N of the Horse.
So I assume there is an isthmus between these two Lakes, located to the west (and slightly south) of Golden Sands. Tokugawa seems to live further west still.
If we head north, our Axe could be hemmed in, between Tokugawa's culture and the Lake. We would then need to move north, around Toku's culture.
This is a worry. It will be time consuming, limits our exploration, and relies on other AI circling Tokugawa for us to meet us (at least, for ~5 turns).
OTOH, non-Tokugawa AI exploring in the north be funneled this way as well. He won't have open borders with anyone. And I assume this route is very safe.
-----
I have no strong opinions. But on T47, I think I prefer to go 2N. On T48, I will move 1N and see what our options are.
The general movement will be west/north west. I will try and stick to Forests. If no Forests or hills are available, I will try to skirt a Lake, or Tokugawa's culture. Obviously I will try to move so that a Forest can be reached on the following turn.
I would prefer to circle Tokugawa's southern borders (i.e. we do not go too far north). But I am not sure whether to prioritize this > safety (if Forests are in the north, but not the south).
Again, I've no strong opinions, but this is how I'd play on my own. I am open to feedback.
I can also post turn-by-turn pictures to receive turn-by-turn feedback, if someone happens to be online while I play.
Spoiler :
The Axe is 1S of the Ivory.
It looks like another Lake is located 4W1S of Golden Sands.
If you squint hard at the last two pictures, you can see that there is land 3W1N of the Horse.
So I assume there is an isthmus between these two Lakes, located to the west (and slightly south) of Golden Sands. Tokugawa seems to live further west still.
If we head north, our Axe could be hemmed in, between Tokugawa's culture and the Lake. We would then need to move north, around Toku's culture.
This is a worry. It will be time consuming, limits our exploration, and relies on other AI circling Tokugawa for us to meet us (at least, for ~5 turns).
OTOH, non-Tokugawa AI exploring in the north be funneled this way as well. He won't have open borders with anyone. And I assume this route is very safe.
-----
I have no strong opinions. But on T47, I think I prefer to go 2N. On T48, I will move 1N and see what our options are.
The general movement will be west/north west. I will try and stick to Forests. If no Forests or hills are available, I will try to skirt a Lake, or Tokugawa's culture. Obviously I will try to move so that a Forest can be reached on the following turn.
I would prefer to circle Tokugawa's southern borders (i.e. we do not go too far north). But I am not sure whether to prioritize this > safety (if Forests are in the north, but not the south).
Again, I've no strong opinions, but this is how I'd play on my own. I am open to feedback.
I can also post turn-by-turn pictures to receive turn-by-turn feedback, if someone happens to be online while I play.
I edited this post for the scouting axe movement.
I assume that most of other AIs's scouts either died or blocked by Toku's culture, so it might rely on us to find them, we could OB with Toku on T60 when the peace bonus comes and the fair trade. Scouting north also give us more information of potential city sites.
I assume that most of other AIs's scouts either died or blocked by Toku's culture, so it might rely on us to find them, we could OB with Toku on T60 when the peace bonus comes and the fair trade. Scouting north also give us more information of potential city sites.
Yep, there's a lot of flexibility here. After T55, three Workers (3, 1, 5) are available in the south, and we have Worker turns to spare (i.e. we are pre-chopping Forests, or Cottaging tiles that cannot yet be worked). I will rework the micro for these turns closer to the time.
Spoiler :
Settlers, if not needed to control happiness in the capital, do at least let us work stronger tiles there.
The Settler would go to the Pigs/Clam/Horse.
I see no need to hurry this, which is why I placed the OF into the Axeman. But I could understand the team wanting to put OF into a Settler.
Yes, good points. I had also considered turning our Corn/Cow city into a Warrior pump.
Sure, that could work. Working a Corn + Cow @ size 2 without a Granary (= 6F + 3H) is equivalent to working a Cow with a Granary (6F 3H).
I presently have a Worker build a road on the Forest 1E of the Cow, before the city is settled. Two Workers are available on the turn that the city is settled.
The micro would go:
T0: Settle. Work Cow. Cow (2/4).
T1: 2F 2H. Cow (4/4).
T2: 5F 7H. Chop (2/3).
T3: 8F 12H. Chop (3/3).
T1: 2F 2H. Cow (4/4).
T2: 5F 7H. Chop (2/3).
T3: 8F 12H. Chop (3/3).
We will lose the Forest by settling here.
Forget about my suggestion about the 5th city site. I checked the real save and found that the test save were not updated, there's no PH tile and some of the north tiles are tundra.
@Doshin
Ready to play? I think you could play at least a few turns till capturing another worker from Asoka's 2nd city.
@Doshin
Ready to play? I think you could play at least a few turns till capturing another worker from Asoka's 2nd city.
Really? Oh well. I had found a way to build the Monument one turn sooner, but nevermind.
I just spent 3 hours testing. Rice Pudding now contributes –1
+3 
compared to my original micro. 
Spoiler :
I'm going to update the micro and play a handful of turns. Not the full set.
If you stick around, I can post pictures of exploration for feedback.
BTW, I might as well ask since I see you (Duckweed) online: I plan to kill and Buddhist Missionaries that I spot inside Asoka's territory. Any objections to this?
A religion in Asoka's second city would speed up our border pop. But personally, I would prefer to waste more of Asoka's hammers, so that he tries to build another Missionary (rather than an Archer).
