A general strategy for Shoshone

megabearsfan

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Continuing my series of Civ V BNW strategies, I have just published a guide for Shoshone. Please check it out at:
http://www.megabearsfan.net/post/2014/04/13/Civ-V-Shoshone-strategy.aspx

As always, I appreciate any feedback, so please comment, share, or rate the post as you see fit. I also welcome any discussion about the strategy guide or Shoshone strategies in general in this forum topic.

This is my seventh strategy post. The first six are:
Assyria the tech thief
Brazil the jungle king
spicy Indonesia
Moroccan gatekeepers
Poland the progressive warhorse
Portual borrows luxuries

I will also be posting a similar thread on the official 2k forums.
 
Starting tiles: It's grabbing the first X that culture would naturally expand into and so it should be constant.

Diplomatic: Yes, Patronage is useful for that; but no point in opening Honor for this; city states tell you where the barb camp is anyway.
Also, I'd strongly recommend completing your free tree (weather Tradition or Liberty) first to get the benefits of the closer ASAP

What, no mention of other victory types? I would mostly mention that Shoshone can achieve whatever victory condition they wish by using the standard tactics for that victory condition.

Yes; if it were worth worth self founding a city in late game at all, then Shoshone ability would be better for it.
 
Starting tiles: It's grabbing the first X that culture would naturally expand into and so it should be constant.

Yeah, this is how it's supposed to work, but I am very confident (like >= 90% confident) that I was only given 7 tiles on at least two occasions. I could be wrong; maybe I just miscounted. But I wanted to point out that (from my observation) it may not be static. Maybe it was a glitch?

What, no mention of other victory types? I would mostly mention that Shoshone can achieve whatever victory condition they wish by using the standard tactics for that victory condition.

I did make some references to buying Universities, Museums, etc with money that you may save from lower unit maintenance (due to not having to have as large a defensive standing army). However, the strategy was already lengthy enough that I didn't feel it was necessary to specifically address "standard tactics" for other victory types. If Shoshone have specific advantages towards achieving other victory conditions besides those specifically mentioned, feel free to describe them, and I'll update the strategy post :)

Yes; if it were worth worth self founding a city in late game at all, then Shoshone ability would be better for it.

Agreed: late game city-founding is generally not worthwhile. But, Shoshone do have a natural affinity for it (so it was worth noting), and there are always exceptions:
  • acquiring a source of Coal, Oil, Aluminum, or Uranium in cases where you can't easily get them from trade deals or city states (especially in peaceful games, or games in which you've already made enemies with everyone).
  • Trying to acquire a natural wonder. Particularly if one appears on an uncolonized continent after discovering Astronomy, and especially if you have "One With Nature" and/or "Natural Heritage Sites", or my National Park mod (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=153631376) ;).
  • Placing a city on a valuable strategic tile such as a 1-tile isthmus (establishing a canal so you don't have to sail around a whole continent) or an island that you can use as an airbase in lieu of Carriers.
 
I did make some references to buying Universities, Museums, etc with money that you may save from lower unit maintenance (due to not having to have as large a defensive standing army). However, the strategy was already lengthy enough that I didn't feel it was necessary to specifically address "standard tactics" for other victory types. If Shoshone have specific advantages towards achieving other victory conditions besides those specifically mentioned, feel free to describe them, and I'll update the strategy post :)

Shoshone is one of only a few civs (unless you've turned ancient ruins off :nono: ) in which a Sacred Sites induced cultural victory / Jesuit Priest assisted science victory is possible at Immortal+.
(Select both faith & culture early and often to both found religion, advance thru piety tree faster than all civs except for Poland.)
 
I don't really have a good handle on how to play with this civ. But, what I like to do is get my cities up early and create a large brown blob on the map, then just turtle. I like to get 2-4 more cities depending on how much room there is.

If you choose 'look at their maps' with the Path Finder it can often reveal 1 or 2 more ruins. Rinse and repeat. If you choose to add population, then you can start building your first settler right away. You can often get you capitol up to size 5 or 6 pretty fast this way.

I've actually been playing these guys all weekend trying to find a use for the Comanche Rider. Unfortunately, I didn't make a single Rider yet, let alone find a good use for them. I'm one of the people that suggested Comanches for the UU but they feel out of place here.
 
If you choose 'look at their maps' with the Path Finder it can often reveal 1 or 2 more ruins. .

I consider this (along with reveal barb) a total waste of Path Finder; as a scout unit it will find the nearby ruins soon enough anyway.
 
I consider this (along with reveal barb) a total waste of Path Finder; as a scout unit it will find the nearby ruins soon enough anyway.

If you combine this with my goal of getting the second city out asap, then no waste, because you want to know where to put it and the map will reveal vast expanses fast along with the direct path to the next ruin. You want to be sure you aren't expanding toward a dangerous opponent.
 
If you combine this with my goal of getting the second city out asap, then no waste, because you want to know where to put it and the map will reveal vast expanses fast along with the direct path to the next ruin. You want to be sure you aren't expanding toward a dangerous opponent.

I guess you could agree on that "it depends" sometimes the immediate surroundings don't look suitable and you need more scouting, and sometimes you don't.
 
I've actually been playing these guys all weekend trying to find a use for the Comanche Rider. Unfortunately, I didn't make a single Rider yet, let alone find a good use for them. I'm one of the people that suggested Comanches for the UU but they feel out of place here.

People seem to find little use in general for mounted/fast units as when it comes to actual combat they are a bit middle of the road...if you push them into a fight they will likely die next turn, if you hold them on the defensive they get no defensive bonus.

Fast/mounted units aren't meant to stand and fight they are meant to move around fast mopping up and harassing.

In an actual fight you can use them for flanking promotions and trapping units so they can't run off or to run and finish off a unit with a couple of hp left then run back to safety if needs be.

Once you have 3 range on your ranged units they are perfect for city attacks, they can move in to sight of the city so you can see the city and your ranged units can hit and move out to safety even in rough terrain. Once the city is down to no health they can also run in and take the city without having them hanging around for a turn or 2 getting shot up, most important when there is a ranged unit camped in the city on defence also and even more so if there is another ranged unit hanging around which can easily kill off even a melee unit in rough terrain.

Comanche riders with their extra movement point can make the difference between city raiding or not being able to. In my current game i was attacking a runaway on the other continent and was able to raid his inland cities by bombarding from the sea and running in my Comanche riders to take the city, in most cases having to run over hills and forests to do so would have fallen short with standard cavalry and due to the vastly superior land forces the enemy had they would have kill my units before i got to the city. I could land out of their borders and therefore out of LoS and therefore run in unseen rather than having to land and get hit on landing or land, move into range to strike and get hit that turn.

They are also excellent raiders in general especially with the new warmonger penalty system if is often inadvisable to take every city or even take it and raze it so you often want to only take a small number of cities or liberate some which means you either leave them with some decent cities intact or hand decent cities over to their original owners.
With fast/mounted units you can quickly and easily pillage all the tiles surrounding cities you either leave or liberate so they at least have a lot of work to do to get it back into a decent condition which in the case of cities you simply don't take should be made a lot harder as you should also be capturing all their workers with your fast/mounted units while pillaging all their tiles.
 
If you choose 'look at their maps' with the Path Finder it can often reveal 1 or 2 more ruins. Rinse and repeat. If you choose to add population, then you can start building your first settler right away. You can often get you capitol up to size 5 or 6 pretty fast this way.
I consider this (along with reveal barb) a total waste of Path Finder; as a scout unit it will find the nearby ruins soon enough anyway.

I would generally agree with this statement. I personally cannot think of anytime that would be preferable to one of the other available options. With a cool-down period of only 2 ruins, you can basically repeat any cycle of 3 options: population, culture, tech, or maybe faith. And of course, the upgrade to Comp Bow at some point. No need to ever take maps, barbarian locations, or gold. But I'm sure there are exceptions.

I've actually been playing these guys all weekend trying to find a use for the Comanche Rider. Unfortunately, I didn't make a single Rider yet, let alone find a good use for them. I'm one of the people that suggested Comanches for the UU but they feel out of place here.

As I mentioned in the linked strategy blog, the best 3 uses for the increased movement of the Comanche Rider are:
  • Pillaging deep inside enemy territory,
  • Rapidly mobilizing for homeland defense,
  • The standard cavalry strategy of surrounding enemy units in order to accumulate large flanking bonuses.

The Comanche Riders make a good defensive unit, as you can probably get to any tile within your territory and use the +15% combat bonus to repel any invaders. That was the primary use that I had for them.
 
Shoshone is one of only a few civs (unless you've turned ancient ruins off :nono: ) in which a Sacred Sites induced cultural victory / Jesuit Priest assisted science victory is possible at Immortal+.
(Select both faith & culture early and often to both found religion, advance thru piety tree faster than all civs except for Poland.)

Excellent suggestion, joncnunn! I have added a paragraph to the end of the "Peaceful exploration" sub-section!
 
Here is my Shoshone strategy I use in my games (Continents-Emperor-Huge-Domination): In addition to the pathfinder in the beginning, I produce extra two and buy one as soon as I have 220 gold. With a total of 4 pathfinders, it is highly probable that you will get your pantheon belief in 20th turn or a bit later and that you will have three composite bowmen. Production queue is as follows: pf, pf, pf, monument, granary, Stonhenge, Temple of Artemis, Pyramids, (I pick Liberty and first get my worker ). Sun God belief (+1 food Food for each Banana, Citrus, and Wheat resource) plus granary result in a city which grows very fast. Since you don't interrupt its growth with settlers you will have lots of hammers. The only disadvantage is founding cities rather late in the game but once you start to found them your civilization expands unbelievably.
 
Excellent suggestion, joncnunn! I have added a paragraph to the end of the "Peaceful exploration" sub-section!

I like to take Worship Ancestor with Liberty to do a kind of endless ICS and finish Liberty ASAP. I will try the same with Piety instead.
 
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