It is insanely difficult to balance it all, so I appreciate all the help. I don't foresee perfection, but I would like to avoid 'instant restart' resources existing. One thing I'm going to do is move Silk down to the Amphitheater (doesn't belong on the Opera House). That means that all Renaissance resources are right at the start of the Renaissance, which allows for a nice ramp up in resource use/unlock into the mid-game.
First of all, no I did not read your spoiler, I was way too tired to try and figure out what it means.
Second, the Silk thing makes sense, Opera houses are soooo late.
Third, no, of course perfect balance is impossible, and would probably just end up being boring. This is more a case of flavor and variety. Having all Plantation-based resources ending up with the same yields just isn't fun.
All resources (except Renaissance ones) should get +2x bonus from buildings, where x is one or more yield types.
Yeah, this is pretty much it.
Non-forest camps are the worst offenders in terms of poor base/improved yields.
If possible make fur only spawn in forest, the Elephants (which never spawn in jungle/forest) can be balanced individually, but there is just a way too big difference between forest truffle/furs and non-forest truffle/furs.
Speaking of this, is there any real reason why elephants never spawn in jungle/forest? I thought they actually lived in forest/jungle.
Plantation resources are generally unexciting due to similarity of base yields.
Yes, this is probably just me however. I dislike things being samey.
Water luxuries need a boost, or a base yield value change.
Huhm, I don't think that. Crabs are great, Whales are great. Pearls and Coral are way less exciting but they aren't really bad.
Does this seem right? I'm happy with monopolies as they stand, and buffing Coral/Pearls/Ivory/Bison should take care of 2 and 4. So really we need to look at 1 and 3 and get those sorted out.
I don't necessarily think Bison are bad, but yes, this is pretty much it.
It's a lot of things. Funak has brought up some points I agree with on the buildings. Going to reference
this again to point out some other things I perceive as issues:
Heyyah.
- Olives and Cocoa get an extra base yield over every other plantation resource
Yes, that's called flavor
. See, these things along with stuff like Citrus being good, and foresttruffles being good and Salt being good. These things I have absolutely no problem with. Imho some resources can be better than others, the problem here is that a lot of plantation resources are providing the exact same yields, as well as being underpowered.
- Bananas have no base yield. They have a higher Improved Yield which tells me this is intentional, but I don't understand it. You can't use them (outside of Granary) until Iron Working. Deer are so, so much better in comparison and you don't need to cut the forest.
They got their base-yield chewed because people were complaining about them not being worth improving. Better to leave them unimproved and get the jungle-bonuses.
- Quarry vs Mine scaling. The wonder bonus tells me this is intentional again, but come the Modern era a generic, no-resource Mine provides more Production than a Stone Quarry. That doesn't feel right.
Somewhat agree here, mines needed to keep scaling to keep up with other things.
- Fresh Water/NO Fresh Water tech scaling. There are some major gaps between some of these bonuses. 5 tech gap between Steel and Industrialization for Mines, 5 tech gap between Chemistry and Plastics for Plantations. Then we have much shorter gaps where the NO Fresh Water actually gets a better bonus. Only 2 techs between Gunpowder and Rifling, but the NO Fresh Water Camp gets 1 Food vs 1 Gold. If the better bonus is a balancing act, shouldn't it be on the larger gaps?
Again, this is just flavor, I think it's totally fine.
It's probably a problem of manufactories (great engineer's tile improvement) being too weak at the moment, but iron and copper tiles used to be as strong as those. That's why I'm happy to see forge nerfed.
And now, Marble/Jade/Salt is as strong as manufactories instead while the Copper sits on the side being weak.
I'll agree with you that early-game manufactories are weaker than a lot of resources, but they grow in strength rather rapidly and I really think that's fine. As long as the manufactory isn't worse than normal hill-mines I don't think we have a problem.
It's just a flavour thing, but I think an obligatory +1 gold belongs to any buff that caravansaries and markets provide.
Caravansary, probably true. For a market however, it could just help redistribution, I mean you don't necessarily get more money out of your citizens just because you have a market where they can trade goods.
Also, all the plantation-resources already had 3 gold from base-values and plantation-improvements, I really don't think they necessarily need to get more gold.
Also, spices would become especially strong if they received two of the most valuable (much valuable than gold, imo) yields as you suggested - I'd probably leave it at 1p 1g, or even 1c 1g.
A grassland spice with a market would provide you with 3f 1p 3g, that's hardly amazing, hardly overpowered. I do completely agree with you that food/production feels a lot more valuable, but you have to keep in mind that most of these tiles aren't worth working in the first place, so switching 1 gold for one food on it is hardly gamebreaking.
I like the idea of plantations on different luxuries offering different resource yields. It makes them more unique opposed to just being additional gold.
That was the idea, so I'm happy you feel that way.
However, I think plantations also need to be balanced around the fact that a forest/jungle plantation luxury becomes a worse tile once you improve it. (+1f herbalist +1p/f forest/jungle) and then the additional bonuses from workshops and universities.
I don't necessarily think they need to be balanced around it, but I think with more interesting yields on them people could work them after they've cut down the forest/jungle and improved the tile.
