Dawn of Civilization General Discussion

Having an actual duplicate religion in the game just doesn't work, because that would affect units, buildings, and everything that requires religion and basically would make everything very ugly.

I tried to only change the displayed text but that just doesn't work from how the code works.

So Orthodoxy it is even before the schism.

Leoreth said:

Having an actual duplicate religion in the game just doesn't work, because that would affect units, buildings, and everything that requires religion and basically would make everything very ugly.

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What do you mean an actual duplicate religion?

Leoreth said:

I tried to only change the displayed text but that just doesn't work from how the code works.

So Orthodoxy it is even before the schism.

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Understood - it's a pity, though!

ozqar said:

What do you mean an actual duplicate religion?

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As in, Christianity proper being a fourth religion next to the three existing denominations.

Leoreth said:

As in, Christianity proper being a fourth religion next to the three existing denominations.

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I see, which is then what would be the case since you can't rename them.

Then, what about changing the requirements of the Catholic and Protestant wonders so that, when there's no schism and/or no reformation, they require Orthodoxy or they have geographical requirements instead?

ozqar said:

I see, which is then what would be the case since you can't rename them.

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Yeah, maybe I gave the reasons in the wrong order. Renaming doesn't work, so that would have been the only solution.

Then, what about changing the requirements of the Catholic and Protestant wonders so that, when there's no schism and/or no reformation, they require Orthodoxy or they have geographical requirements instead?

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Would similarly overcomplicate things in the implementation.

It's true that this causes too many problems down the line so instead I will think of something to make sure Catholicism will be founded in some other way during the game.

Leoreth said:

Renaming doesn't work, so that would have been the only solution.

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How do you mean, it doesn't work? It works perfectly.

merijn_v1 said:

How do you mean, it doesn't work? It works perfectly.

Spoiler :

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I find this a very satisfactory solution haha

Leoreth said:

Having an actual duplicate religion in the game just doesn't work, because that would affect units, buildings, and everything that requires religion and basically would make everything very ugly.

I tried to only change the displayed text but that just doesn't work from how the code works.

So Orthodoxy it is even before the schism.

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Alternatively, we could have the Catholic wonders as requiring (Catholicism or Christianity), Orthodox as (Orthodoxy or Christianity) and so on. Once the Schism happens, All Christian cities could be changed either to Catholicism or Orthodoxy, being the only case when a religion is wiped out entirely, probably even including its Holy City.

Besides, I saw that Jerusalem is the Orthodox Holy City in the 600 AD scenario and I believe it was Constantinople in the 1700 AD scenario. Is there a way that the Orthodox Holy City can be changed? My idea is that Hagia Sophia defines it. And back to Catholicism, St Peter's Basilica and the Apostolic Palace are different buildings. We could have the Apostolic Palace as the Catholic shrine and St Peter's Basilica as a wonder that requires it. Someone around these forums suggested the Churches of the Holy Sepulchre and Nativity as Orthodox and Catholic shrines. I liked that idea, if added it could be two shrines for two denominations.

And with this religion issue beyond Christianity, I saw myself having religious disunity as Khmer and China, when supposedly Buddhism + Hinduism and Confucianism + Taoism are tolerant with each other. If this could be fixed, I would like this to be considered in the future when Shinto is added.
Also, Zoroastrianism has few Wonders, while Protestantism has none. If we could just come up with a Zoroastrian wonder that gives a free Courthouse in every city or Administrative Center in every conquered capital it could help in representing the satrapies, while one that leaves no destroyed buildings in conquered cities could represent Cyrus's way of conquest. As for Protestant wonders, they would obviously be buildings as temples or cathedrals (ideas: St Paul's Cathedral, Westminster Abbey even if it was originally a Catholic church, an American megachurch), because otherwise they would make sense as secular wonders.

And with all these religions added, we should reduce Spain's and Tibet's UHVs, since they could become near to impossible to complete for them.

Leoreth said:

If Constantinople is the holy city in the 1700 AD scenario that is a mistake.

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It's not, I just checked.

Thanks, I was pretty sure I was rather diligent with these things this time

Leoreth said:

That's what you get for playing with non standard interface settings

Independents have state religions because minor civs are mostly like normal civs in the base game, but it's a good idea to disable this. But the schism mechanic is unaffected, the code specifically counts all independent cities towards the "no state religion" count.

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Lol! My bad. I thought the event should have triggered based on the cities I was counting so I thought maybe it was that. I suppose I must have miscounted.

Anyway, looking forward to playing with this more.

No worries, it's always good to second guess me you'll be right rather often

I disagree about the Orthodox Holy City. If I recall correctly, part of the reason Christianity was changed was because of the historical debate of whether it was Orthodoxy that split from Catholicism or the other way around, and I don't remember why but you said that founding Catholicism first or something in the split was akward, or something related. This modmod was (unintentionally I suppose) siding with Catholicism when it was the first religion founded, and with Jerusalem as the Holy City this sides with Orthodoxy. In my opinion we should be as unbiased as possible, with Jerusalem being of equal importance for both branches as much as possible, even with one branch of Christianity absent.
Historically, there were five main patriarchies in early Christianity: Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Constantinople and Rome. The first three were conquered by the Muslims, leaving Constantinople and Rome as the main strongholds of Christianity until Constantinople was conquered by the Turks (even if it still remains the seat of the Greek Orthodox Church), and Jerusalem's importance was diminished afterwards besides its historical meaning.
In modern Orthodoxy, the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Moscow have higher relevance than their Jerusalem counterparts, so I wouldn't put Jerusalem as the Orthodox Holy City, at least not initially.

It is debatable, but while the Catholic Church may or may not have been founded in Rome, it has the Vatican as its seat, so we should do the same with Orthodoxy.

Speaking of Jerusalem, we should implement a Crusades event. My idea is that around 1095 or 1100, a small army from each Catholic (and maybe Orthodox too) civilization that agrees to go on a Crusade spawns an army near Jerusalem, like three French units, three Germans and three English. If lucky one of them should sooner or later conquer the city. Alternatively, the Pope civilization spawns an army near that city whose size depends on how many voted for a Crusade, and it would be interesting to see them defending it from those who want to reconquer it (Arabs, Seljuks, Turks and maybe Egyptians).

It is a shame that Jerusalem is such a crappy city. There were some map redrawings with a river that were a bit better.

Leoreth, have you been considering changing tiles in the early Egypt/Jerusalem/Mesopotamia area to be better early game and worse off as the game progresses? The Northern Europe area should similiary be worse off during early game and better later game.

Yes, there's been discussion about having resources in Europe spawn later. I don't think it's very urgent though.

Maybe add Olives as a resource to make it more desirable

I've updated the introductory thread to make it more explicit that you can always download the current development version from Github as a ZIP file:

Downloading from Github directly

You can always download the most current state of the development version as a ZIP file HERE.

Note that you always have to download the entire mod again even for the smallest changes. I therefore recommend you properly set up your Git repository as described below, so that you can update your mod more comfortably and much faster.

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Thanks! I'm happy to hear you enjoy the mod.

Great. I'm even like 85% certain that it's more stable than 1.13.0.

Have you renamed the new folder to exactly "RFC Dawn of Civilization"?