1.0 gram - Ancient Age All-Stars (C3C - Modified Rules)

1.0 gram: Ancient Age All-Stars (C3C 1.22f Modified Rules)

The idea of this game came from gozpel in Hooray’s discussion thread. The mod to the rules is an effort to make the Ancient Age of C3C last as long as possible, allowing the players to use Ancient Age units almost exclusively. Horseman and swords will rule for most of this game

The rules have been modified as follows in an effort to do this:

All AA tech costs doubled
Monotheism, Engineering, Feudalism, and Chivalry tech cost 5X normal (balancing issue due to free tech receive by Scientific civ's)
All other MA tech costs 1000 (max). That means we will have to invest 10,000 gold to get the tech.
All IA+ tech costs are set to max (1000)
Max research time is 120 turns
GA increased to 30 turns
Galley is safe in seas and oceans (allows us to use a continents or island map if desired)
Great Lighthouse adds +2 movement and increases commerce in Water around that city
Map Making allows trade over sea tiles.
Plagues are on (max 2) (I never saw a plague in the game and thought it'd be cool)
edit (thanks microbe ):
ToA doubles the effect of Temples
SoZ expires with Fuedalism and produces 1 AC every 20 turns
Knights Templar expires with Gunpowder, costs 600 shields and produces 1 crusader every 20 turns



I would like to try this on Demi-God to keep it interesting but will go with another difficulty if others want something else.

Version: C3C v1.22f and v1.15b
Mapsize: standard
Landmass: Pangea, 60% water
barbs: restless
climate: normal
temperature: warm
world age: 5 billion years


I would like to limit the choices of Civ’s to ones that have Ancient Age unique units (hence the Ancient Age All-Star’s name ). That means we can choose from the following (opponents will be drawn from this list as well):

Name – Unit name, attack.defend.move/shield cost
Aztec – Jaguar Warrior 1.1.2/10
Zulu – Impi 1.2.2/20
Greek – Hoplite 1.3.1/20
Carthage – Numidian Mercenary 2.3.1/30
Babylon – Bowman 2.2.1/20
Maya – Javelin Thrower 2.2.1 (enslavement) / 30
Rome – Legionary 3.3.1/30
Persia – Immortal 4.2.1/30
Celts – Gallic Swordsman 3.2.2/40
Egypt – War Chariot 2.1.2/20
Hittites – Three Man Chariot 2.2.2/30
Iroquois – Mounted Warrior 3.1.2/30
Byzantines – Dromon 2.1.3 – 2.1.2 bombard/30
Sumerians – Enkidu Warrior 1.2.1/10

I don’t want civ’s with Chivalry related UU’s as this might unbalance the game by not allowing the AI to get to a golden age. The other thought was that this would allow the knight to be the ultimate unit and everyone would have access to it.

We can probably do 2 more players however, if enough are interested (though not really sure why ), I can open another thread.

Standard 24hrs got it, 72hrs played, ask for more time and you will get it let’s just try to keep each other informed as best we can.

We can start the discussion now and I’ll generate maps tonight based on our preferences.

Conquest or domination are obvious win objectives. All others will be impossible or impossibly long.

Roster 1.22f
sir bugsy
denyd
ankka
6thGenTexan
mitsho
grahamiam

Roster 1.15b
gozpel
GK
scoutsout
conehead234
bede

I think the players listed know what rules to play under However, if it needs clarification, we can do that too before we start.

20 turns starts it, 10 turns thereafter.

You'd better just get rid of some wonders. ToA will almost never expire. Zeus will be much more powerful. This will make it too unbalanced.

good points, we can consider that.

a couple idea's about the ToA and SoZ...

i can check the editor tonight to change the tech that makes them obsolete. it should be a useful tech that is required to get to the MA, say currency for ToA (nobody goes to church when they can make money )

another idea is to make the SoZ produce an AC every 20 or 25 turns instead of every 5 turns. Same deal with Knights Templar.

Checking in

Before selecting a tribe, any thoughts on map type/size (Dromons in a panagea or Jags & MWs in islands are wasted)

I prefer 1.22

I'm playing a game as the Celts and it's got great traits as does Persia.

Also, any thoughts on desired victory condition?

Obviously not Space or UN, unless you want to hit Histograph along the way

So that leaves (tribes I've played):
for Cultural my choices are 1. Babylon 2. Egypt 3. Aztec
for Conquest/Domination 1. Celts 2. Persia 3. Iroquois

I've never played the Mayans, Incas, Hittites, Sumerians or Byzantines, so those could be fun. I don't think commercial or seafaring, would help that much under these conditions. Scientific gets a big boost due to the bonus tech.

Edit: As for the temple wonders, how about having them both expire with Philosophy and have Knights Templer expire with Education.

ok, great! still waiting on gozpel and ankka.

regarding map size, i think "standard" should be the way to go. for me, these "large" SG's tend to take too much time when the game gets to the 250-300 turn stage.

VC seems to be conquest or domination, i'm not sure how to get cultural with all those MA and IA techs essentially cutoff. we won't be able to really research very fast on the MA tech tree with those tech costs. the AI will have just as much trouble.

as for tribes, i'm not too picky, though i have probably played too many persian games for me, the Maya seem attractive with thier enslavement ability.

for the wonders, i will take a careful look at the editor and post later.

btw, we are still looking for 1 or 2 more people assuming gozpel and ankka want to play. i would gladly have microbe but i don't think he was signing up

ok, here are the proposed changes that I think will even out the advantages of the ToA, SoZ, KT wonders:

for the ToA, it doubles the happiness of all temples (similar to the effect Sistine's has on Cathedrals). it will no longer produce temples in all cities. Still expires with Education.

for the SoZ, it will produce an AC every 20T instead of every 5T. it will expire with Fuedalism (prerequisite for knights) instead of Metallurgy.

for the Knights Templar, cost is 600 shields, produces a Crusader every 20T. it will now expire with Gunpowder (tough tech to research in this mod but seems reasonable).

Let me know what you think.

Any chance I can talk you guys into going with 1.15?

I'm very interested in this one, but 1.22 has given me nothing but a headache.

If not would running parallel games using the same mods(both set up by you since you have both, of course) be possible?

Ancient Age "sticks and stones" slugfest... if someone wants to crank up a secondary 1.15 thread, I'd love to get in on this. If you haven't run out of fingers, count me in!

I'll join the team.

As for Civ, NOT the Byzantines. If we are doubling the research costs, it will take a long time to get to map making and give us a late GA. I'm leaning to Rome, Persia, or the Celts. Rome has the best balanced unit, I have not played the Romans in ages, only one unit to build for attack of defense. Perisian Immortals are just that, immortal. Their only problems will be Rome or Carthage. On the down side, I have played them a lot and know they can run over the rest. Celts have the advantage of speed. If the game hinges of resource denial, they will have the speed and strength to pillage. Their down side is the highter unit cost.

As for map, I/d Prefer a Panagea. Otherwise it will be a long time before reaching others unless you make the Carracks carry units.

Either version will work for me.

6gntxn

ok, cool! if the 1.15b crew gets enough friends, i'll start another thread. i think you'll have at least 1 more that I know

i'll edit the opening post with the 2 rosters for the moment.

Thanks graham, if the 1.15 group is short a person or two I'll dig a couple up.

You want both teams to play the same Civs, or can we play different ones(would be intresting using the same map, but different Civs).

1 other thing. i don't want the players to have a scientific civ. I would rather have the AI gain that advantage. also, it would be best if both teams played the same civ.

Therefore, the voting is as follows:

Maya - grahamiam
Celts - denyd

please provide your preferences and I will update this post

@gengis -> the mod is rules only so the maps must be drawn up randomly in v1.15b and then in v1.22f. therefore, it will be impossible for me to use the same map for both teams without spoiling myself. however, in an effort to get them similar, i will generate the maps using the same settings. i will do my best to balance both but no promises

I would be interested in a 1.15 game.

ok cone, your in. looks like i'll have more trouble finding 1.22f people i figured by now people would have grudgingly accepted thier fate.

need votes on civ's from all of you, btw. otherwise, were playing as the Maya

NOOOOOOOOO!! Why do you have to take my precious away from me, Immortals would be perfect this game.

Although I have to disagree about Sci being an advantage on this one, I think Mil/Ag/Ind will all be much more powerful then Scientific will ever have a chance of being. Due to the increased tech price we really won't have much of a shot of getting a SGL, scientific or not. Libraries might be a bit benificial if we decide to do our own research, but that wouldn't be for a while, and the free tech comes too late to be game breaking(or that much of an influence for that matter).

In a game that spends 75% of the time in despotism, I think Ag will be the game breaking trait, that bonus food is huge. Ind, is of course, strong as always(or even more so). Militaristic is obviously a good choice. Religious is next to wasted do to maybe having 1 revolt, and it won't be for a loooong time. Seafaring, depends on the map. But at the very worst it gives us 1 less border to worry about. Expansionist, again on the map, but with Demi it could be huge because we have a better chance of popping techs from huts and not getting barbs.

Have you considered the goody huts? A civ getting 2-3 techs from huts is absolutly huge with the tech cost we'll have to pay. I want barbs around for added fun, but the huts will be killers.


If this post has changed your mind on Scientific being an advantage at all, my vote goes to Persia. If not, I'll have to think about it some more.

[edit- It might be possible to get the same map, Ainwood has a utility that will extract the seed of a random map. If patch version doesn't change the seed you can make one of them, extract the seed then start the other using the same seed & see if it's the same. Just an idea that might work.]

imho, it'll be more difficult fighting the Persians than being them which always makes them an interesting opponent. Also, when I was 1st playing civ, i used to do them ad nausia so i tend to avoid them now. Finally, Ankka, Denyd, Cone, Gozpel and I just finished a Persia SG so I want to try something different.

However, I am not the sole chooser of our civ so your vote counts the same as mine

Civ votes:
grahamiam: maya
denyd: celts?
gk: persia

grahamiam said:

i figured by now people would have grudgingly accepted thier fate.

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well... at least I know of somebody involved in Bugs1 that wasn't surfin' the other thread for spoilers... ...

...accepting one's fate...poo, feh... l'audace, l'aucace, toujours, l'audace!

scoutsout said:

...accepting one's fate...poo, feh... l'audace, l'aucace, toujours, l'audace!

Click to expand...

hahahaha, now please vote for a civ