±±Might±Of±Rome±±

Heres whats on my To-do list lol:

1. Finish adding units (If i even remember how lol)
2. Add in city graphics, already have them, just need to add them in
3. Theres a couple more graphic issues I'd like to add, I'll get it worked out.
4. Put it on CF!!!! lol

Questions/Comments, post here. If you'd like me to post junk let me know or have any idea's, criticism (hope not lol its not even done yet) all welcome, just let me know, its great to be back great to see you all! Here is the link to my old thread... Haven't looked at it, but it could answer some stuff. Thats all.

Is this a Conquest?

Its funny really....in Conquests...you go straight from the Rise of Rome to the Fall of Rome...and theres no in-between scenerio...until now..

Xen will be very very happy when he sees this....

Not just Xen

Lol yes. Xen knows I'm making this mod (at least he did when i started) I intend to cover most of Roman history, mostly in the "Golden Days" of Rome. I'ts not really a "Conquest" because its sort of an expansion on the Rise of Rome and Fall of Rome Conquests. It will feature Many new units from Civfanatics, all picked at best quality, to match those already in the game; Ships, footunits, and much more. New graphic designs, reorganized tech tree, new ages, resources arrangement according to historical records, new civilopedia entries, Altered rules, new buildings and wonders, the list goes on. All feedback, help, historical correctness (probly from Xen lol), ideas, requests, whatever, its all appreciated, thanks.

Ok, I've worked on my mod a bit, and all the units for Rome are pretty much layed out, names, stats, civilopedia entrys and everything else for them needs to be edited but anyway this is where i am w/ new stuff so far

Φ Resources/Luxuries

1. Grain
2. Olive Oil
3. Fish
4. Wine
5. Fruit
6. Slaves
7. Salt
8. Cattle
9. Wool
10. Horses
11. Wood
12. Glass
13. Gold
14. Silver
15. Iron
16. Furs
17. Ivory

Total=17

Φ New Units

1. Imperial Legionary
2. Imperial Archer
3. Roman Ballista
4. Fire Catapult*
5. Legionary I*, II*, and III*
6. Hoplite I*, II, and III
7. Large Roman Ship
8. Small Roman Ship
9. Persian Galley
10. Egyptian Galley
11. Egyptian Spearman
12. Egyptian Swordsman

Total=16
Total=11 (w/o units already in Roman Mods)
***Units names obviously NOT finalized, and list obviously NOT complete.

Resources are placed according to historical records, but I havent edited the stats of what they are or what they do, thats on my list of things to do too.

Slaves: If you wondering about the slaves as a resource lol I saw it as an opportunity to add the Gladiator Unit into my mod. But I also have considered makeing the Gladiator the draft unit for the Romans: "In times of battle you may need to draft some of your gladiators from your colleseum." But thats just an idea, if you like you can tell me your opinion on the situation.

Well I need to go now so hopefully I'll see some feedback. Thanks all. I'll post some more I have done (thats not all lol) but I don't have time for all it right now.

Pardon my spelling I'm in a hurry

There's no corn in the resource list. I know you will add it in now that I reminded you (can't believe I had to) but please don't put corn resource on every space of the map!

What unit are you using for the gladiator? Corny Dude, I must emplore you to not make gladiators a weak, expendable draft unit!! Gladiators were better than regular soldiers and possibly the best there were once they got experience in the arena. Here is the way I use gladiators: put the Circus Maximus great wonder (not small wonder or it will be destroyed upon capture) into your game with the new splash made for it (very cool). Or forget the splash and put the wonder in Rome from the start of the game and have it produce gladiator units once every 15 turns or so and make them very strong. The long wait is due to the few numbers of them relative to recruited soldiers. This will make your mod much more cool.

Did you add in the tantilizing new Roman warship recently put out by aaglo? That is the best looking sword fighting era ship made yet for the game.

Please make this mod. After you post it, I can gut it and mod it into something even better Just joking. I just get rid of victory point scoring, corruption and cultural swaps from anything I play. I reckon its all about fighting, not who can sing the loudest and wiggle their butts.

Corn is actually a new world crop, like Potatoes.

So Legions 1 and 2 will be new units. I wonder, how are you going to use the Ancient Cavalry Unit. In the Rise of Rome scenerio(As well as my own mod), its called an Auxilla, and acts as Rome's second generation horsemen unit....

Bebro also created an Auxilla unit, it would be interesting if you found a way to use BOTH units in game somehow.

Actually corn was the most eaten of all foods by Roman legionaries. If you read Caesar's books about the Invasion of Gaul and the Civil War you will learn they ate corn every mealtime. Good books and easy to read.

I'm looking forward to this.


"In war there is no prize for the runner-up" - General Omar Bradley

Actually, corn is native to the Americas, not one other continent has it, the legionaries might have eaten meal, or barley, but not corn, or potatoes, or chocolate, or avocados, or squash, or lima beans. Although you might be right, there could be some type of european corn, I doubt it though.

@ gandsultan- "corn" is actually the historical name for grain in the old world

@ unscratchedfoot- Gladiators had the same pitfall as every barbaian from europe going against legioanries- they did not fight in a uniform order, with estbalished orders, and tactics- and while it is possible fo rthem to have had more fighting skills the roman legioanriers 9to little credit is givein to how well roman swords men were- even though they marche din order, they did not use sheild wall tactics- each man stood 3 feet apart from anyother man, giving him room for his own little duel with any one who might have come agianst him)

@cornshucker- good work so far. though insted of making gladiators a draft unit, you should use Auxilla, as I have heard desrcritpion of "citizen auxilla from the cities", which woul dbe a better draft option

In my own mod, Gladiators are gotten by the Romans only by enslaving the enemy(Legions and Auxilla have this ability)

Wow, you did quite some work, Corn!! It is great to see you back in action!!

1.) I do like the inclusion of the Gladiator. However, as draft units I would prefer other units, because of the Gladiators' shortcomings that Xen mentioned. Auxilla seem fine - do you have a civ-unit for that?

2.) unscratchedfoot's suggestion with the Circus Maximus seems interesting (but your slave resource, too, so I am kind of undecided here).

3.) What about tech icons? Do you have all you need? I think they have piled up quite a mass of new tech icons in the graphics forum since your last time here (although I saw you once in a while, so you might know them already).

Hope that you can spare more time during the day for modding. I am eagerly waiting for this mod!

CellKu

There is a gladiator unit in the forums that I was going to use made by utahjazz awhile back to answer your question unscratchedfoot. Now the whole reason I was going to think about using it as the draft unit is that it would be like a last resort choice, you in the middle of a war, the enemy are apon you, make your gladiators fight for you, that was the plan anyway.

Now the issue on the auxilla... I know at least Xen knows how picky I am about unit quality lol. I will not use the auxilla that Bebro made because the quality is terrible. I wish they were good enough so I could use them. I had the same issue with the Imperial Legionary too and thats why I went to Kinboat about that and he did an awesome job for me.

Now about Aalgo's unit, yes i added it in, and soon he should be makeing my other Roman ship that Xen requested (At least I think he did) some1 did and I'm planning on using it. Already added in aalgo's unit, its under the name of "Large Roman Ship" lol the names are reaaally generic right now, it's easier for me to recognized them while modding, I'll fill in the correct names for everything in the end.

Back to the whole issue about the auxilla... for horse units, i havent decided yet, I'm planning on using the heavy calvalry they have in the fall of rome mod since they have the whole sheild dealy going on with the original Firax legionary- Question for Xen: During the time of the Imperial Leginoary (I'm talking about the one that Kinboat made) What did the calvary look like? did they use the big sheilds? I dont think they did lol but just wondering, is there anything like it in the forums or in the game, or should I just use the heavy calvary for that too?

I don't think I'll be makeing the Corn resource either lol, first of all, I wouldn't know where to place it, and second like Xen said, its grain and i already have that so I'm set.

Now, what I came to say lol. I've decided that the mod will start at the begining of Julius Caesar's reign, It will be like it was when he started his rule, but then its in your hands, you'll rule during his time, but say he wasn't assasinated, you rule as caesar, determining Rome's future, In fact I was thinking that prehaps I might make another mod featuring the time in the industrial world, asuming that Rome survived. (mostly inspired by that awesome Industrial Legion that Kinboat made) but thats just an idea, and that would require alot more work. Also this whole thing (ruling as Caesar) would make my job alot easier, makeing so that I wouldn't have to get a bunch of stuff historically correct. Lol, anyway That brings me to my last question Xen: During Julius Caesar's reign, I do belive it would be the kind of legionary that Firax made right? Talking historically, cause I would still like to use both legionaries (both the games, and Kinboat's) Anyway thats all I think.

Thanks everyone for everything so far, keep suggestions, questions, answers coming, all appreciated.

One other thing-- I am aware that Aalgo made a Roman Siege Tower, but I'm unsure if I want to use it or not. I seems that it would be getting too much into the middle ages, at least thats what i think of when i think of a siege tower. So Xen, this is more directed twards you, would this be a beliveable unit, or should I just leave it out like I planned to?

Are you going to have a "Dark Ages" or "Fall of Rome" Tech that starts making improvements obsolet as the empire unravels?

Corn,

1.) So, we won't be able to fight against Hannibal? Who will then become the
big enemy? Vercingetorix? Germanic tribes? I assume the scenario will have Germanic tribes.
Btw, have you seen the Germanic Spearman in the unit forum? What do you think about it?

2.) The Hoplites are meant for the Greek, aren't they? But if you start
at the time of Ceasar ...

CellKu

@Cellku- Rome always though tof Parthia as its main rival (not necissarlyl enemy, Rome and parthias relationship was based more on compition then animostiy, as both knew full well it relied on the other for trade an prosperity)

@Cornshucker-

On Legions
essentially. the Firaxis unit is only good for Centurions of the Pretorian guard- which means to really have them, they shoudl be preatorian guard units, and should be VERY slowlly made from a wonder, such as the 'Prartorian Camp', the fort for the Guard in Rome

On Cavalry
The stard firaxis horseman is the best represetnation of republis and early Imprial cavary squads- the Ancient Cavalry graphic are good as the equites, or more over the equites of the more personal then even the preatorian guard, guard squads of the emperor- I say this as the cavalry are far to well equipped to be Auxilla cavalry- though if you use the AC as a second leval Roman cavalry, they should be 'Contarius cavalry", as they were the large spear/lance bearing cavalry, though they werent exactley as depicted by the AC either (they had a larger spear, held with both hands, and no sheild)- depending on how far you sceanrio covers, you think about adding the cataphract as a third leval cavalry

On Seige towersthey were used since the assyrians, and rome is known to have made soem fo the largest in hostory- it would not be getting to "middle agey"

Xen, now I see that corn actually means wheat. I did a search on it and got this:

Only the rich could afford a steady diet of meat. So wheat (known to the Romans as "corn" [frumentum]) was the staple food of most Romans. They mostly ate it as a boiled porridge, sometimes adding flavorings or relishes to it. They had desserts too. And, of course, bread was a staple.

Why didn't Caesar say just once in his book that corn meant wheat? I wondered how Romans on campaign could survive on eating so much corn and virtually nothing else. I even bought corn for dinner many times so that I could be tough like a legionary.

Xen, as for the gladiators not fighting in tight formations with shield walls, that is agreeable too. In the civ editor there is a way to represent this. This is done by giving the gladiators slightly higher stats than the legionaries but give the legionaries at least one more hit point than the gladiators, perhaps two, to represent the integrity of their formations and greater numbers. I've never played any Roman scenarios in civ so I don't know if the legionaries already have a +1 or 2 hp bonus (which they should). But it must be appreciated that soldier for soldier, a victorius gladiator was the best because of his experience and ruggedness.

Corn Shucker, not giving seige engines to the Romans is like not giving them Italy as part of their territory. They made the most elaborate and ingenious seige equipment in history, custom-designed for every seige based on the height/slope/weaponry of the enemy fort to ensure minimal casualties to Roman forces. You should read Invasion of Gaul to learn about them. They even made their engines fire-proof and totally immune to ballistic fire of any sort. Like in one case, they spent months building an indestructable above-ground tunnel up to a fort wall, step by step, and just burrowed through the wall, forcing the surrender of the fort once breached with only a small number countable on your fingers of legionaries lost in the whole operation.

Ok I'll do this as fast as my fingers can type lol (not much time)

Thanks Xen for your many helps lol I am a bit confused on the part w/ the calvary though

On Cavalry
The stard firaxis horseman is the best represetnation of republis and early Imprial cavary squads- the Ancient Cavalry graphic are good as the equites, or more over the equites of the more personal then even the preatorian guard, guard squads of the emperor- I say this as the cavalry are far to well equipped to be Auxilla cavalry- though if you use the AC as a second leval Roman cavalry, they should be 'Contarius cavalry", as they were the large spear/lance bearing cavalry, though they werent exactley as depicted by the AC either (they had a larger spear, held with both hands, and no sheild)- depending on how far you sceanrio covers, you think about adding the cataphract as a third leval cavalry

Click to expand...

Ok when you say "The stard firaxis horseman" you mean the one that you get at the very beginning right? that the barbarrians get too?? ok and are the AC and horseman the same on the lines your talking about? And what are "equites", you lost me there lol.

Ok, i have no more time, I'll get on tomorrow.