New World Conquest / Colonization Scenario

this thread is a little brainstorming for me i hope you got some suggestions too
im starting to make my first civ3 conquests scenario
i've got experience from civ2 (i made such a scenario for myself)
there is a scenario in C3C out of the box, but its a very short game in my opinion.
so i want to start on a bigger map with more (native) civs.
i'll also use some elements of the fraxis scenario (like treasure units)
there is a screenshot of the map im working on in the attachment, sea/ocean and resources still have to be done, the rest is 90% completed i think, so the map is close to be finished
it's based on the mercator projection, so some parts are a little bit bigger then in reality, but this problem is known i think
the map is realy huge (x:342 y:362) im sorry for this ^^

so now come to my ideas:
ca 286 rounds (1490 till 1776) and most points win
or the game will end with all wonders built (last wonder will be then "united states of america")

key elements of the scenario:
- slavery (slaves ressource located in western africa)
- treasures (mines, plantages will produce treasure units you have to bring to your capital, slave resource are needed to build some of the buildings for this)
- also without slaves it will be possible to build treasure units (furs)
- there will be exclusive technologies for the different civs (that european civs cant research mesoamerican techs)
- so there will be buildings that can only be build by selected civs
- also there will be ressources that only one or some civs can make use of.
- there will be buildings that can only be build on american or european continent
- terrain: crossing of desert and tundra (and maybe mountains) will be not allowed, settling will only work on grassland and plains (there is realy enough of it)

use of resources
standart ones:
- iron
- salpeter
- rubber
- furs
- gems
- wild animals
- fish
- gold
- sugar
- fruits
- tobacco
? horses (no horses in america in 1490 )
? wines
? spieces
? cattle wheat
new resources i want to use:
- slaves (european only)
- silver
- maize
- potato (maybe native american only)
- coca
- bison
- exotic birds
- lama (inca only)
- exotic wood
? salt (natives)
? stones (natives)
? wood


im thinking about invisible resources as a workaround, so that for example this resource at the coast of the hudson bay will allow to build hudson bay company.

buildings:
speacial building will be a slave camp that you can only build if you got slave resource, with this camp you can build then plantages.
many more i still have to think about

units:
different treasure units reffering to the resource they are build from, maybe they can move without to need caputered.
many more i still have to think about

what Civs im going to include at the moment:

european:
! England
! Spain
! Portugal
! France
! Netherlands
? Denmark (im not sure about adding it)

meso-american:
! Aztec
! Maya
? Arawak

north-american:
! Iroquese
! Sioux
! Cherokee
! Navajo
? any more?

south-american:
! Inca
! Chibcha
! Tupi
! Mapuche
? any more?

rest babarian

so that was enough for the start, still have to complete the map
hope someone got some nice suggestions

i don't think Spain and Portugal should be allied... the Treaty of Tordesillas divided the New World between Spain and Portugal, and the respectve colonies retained their Spanishness and Portugueseness (are those words?)... Even when the Portuguese throne passed to Spain for a while, the Portuguese empire remained largely separate from Spain in administration and rule

I have to say, that is a wonderfull looking map so far... I can tell this could be a very accurate scenario

I just have one thing to comment about (well, for now anyway): I agree with jonatas, Spain and Portugal do not need to be allies. Other than that, all your ideas look great, and I'm sure it will show when your scenario is completed.

that map is flawless.. amazing!

map will be released soon speratly, its quite fun for just a normal game (and for sure with lowering corruption and dramaticaly increase movement of naval units ^^)

though it seems quite small..
there'll barely be 3 cities per civ

The Maya were all but disappeared by the time the Europeans first arrived, so they may not be a great choice for Mesoamerica. If you do include them, however, also include the Toltecs, who were essentially the predecessors to the Aztecs, later driven southward by Aztec expansionism.

You may also want the state of Tlaxcala to be independent, as that city betrayed the Aztec Empire to the Spanish.

You also may want to somewhat distort Europe on your map to make it large enough to contain a serious number of cities.

Exotic wood -- Mahogany was (and is) the primary high-grade wood to come out of the Amazon rainforest.

Bóreas said:

though it seems quite small..
there'll barely be 3 cities per civ

Click to expand...

Small? It's 342 x 362

just look at the selection square on the picture
its huge

That just means it's zoomed out.

You can also tell how large the map really is by taking a very close look at it -- each of those tiny little dots is a tile.

If the map really wasn't nearly as large as it is, each of those little dots would be much larger and more visible.

Cuivienen said:

The Maya were all but disappeared by the time the Europeans first arrived, so they may not be a great choice for Mesoamerica. If you do include them, however, also include the Toltecs, who were essentially the predecessors to the Aztecs, later driven southward by Aztec expansionism.

You may also want the state of Tlaxcala to be independent, as that city betrayed the Aztec Empire to the Spanish.

You also may want to somewhat distort Europe on your map to make it large enough to contain a serious number of cities.

Exotic wood -- Mahogany was (and is) the primary high-grade wood to come out of the Amazon rainforest.

Click to expand...

you are right about the maya, maybe i make thier civ very struggeling at the times the europeans will arrive. or i let the game start a little bit earlier.
toltec empire ended around 1200 AD so its not going to be included. maya empire went down at around 1450 AD (end of post-classical periode). but the people didnt disappear, there were still city states, and the last one was conquered in the end of the 17th century by the spanish.
i'll not include the cities of the classical periode, because they were abandoned around 1000 AD.

im yet unsure about tlaxcala, it was indipendent from tenochtitlan and allied with the spanish to fight tenochtitlan as you said, depends on how it will fit into the map ;D

western europe is quite big enough i think, its as big as you can find it on europe only maps ;> i attached an example

thnx for the exotic wood, thats what i meant, it played an very improtant role in colonization of southern america, it was used as dyes, so im going to replace dyes with exotic wood.

Cuivienen said:

The Maya were all but disappeared by the time the Europeans first arrived, so they may not be a great choice for Mesoamerica.

Click to expand...

No, that isn't correct. The highland Maya civilization had declined, but the civilization on the lowland coast was still quite strong. Cortes was unable to make a succesful beachhead on the Yucatan mainland coast anywhere as he was driven off in military encounters at cities like Campeche and Champoton. He did manage to take an Itza colony on the island of Cozumel. The Maya were around for a long time after the Aztec fell.

If you do include them, however, also include the Toltecs, who were essentially the predecessors to the Aztecs, later driven southward by Aztec expansionism.

Click to expand...

The Toltec collapsed before the Aztec had even arrived in the Valley of Mexico. The Toltecs who did migrate to the Yucatan to found Chichen Itza left because of civil war between the , not Aztec expansion. To the Aztecs and other peoples of the Valley of Mexico at the time of the Conquest, the Toltecs were a memory. They had collapsed around about the 12th century, and the Aztecs didn't arrive in the Valley until mid-13th century. There's no real conclusion on the Toltec collapse; it could have been internal wars, or the migration of barbaric populations from the north, nobody really knows. But the easiest way to explain the Toltec is to say that they were to the Aztecs as Rome was to medieval Europe, a memory of a highly organized and stable society which influenced them in many ways.

You may also want the state of Tlaxcala to be independent, as that city betrayed the Aztec Empire to the Spanish.

Click to expand...

Tlaxcala would definately be the best choice for a third Mesoamerican culture.

after i solved my landmark problem i want to include serveral landmark terrain.
so my ideas:
LMPlains: Great Plains, food +1
LMGrasland: Pampas, food +1
LMMountains: Andes, food +1
LMHills: Appalaches movent cost +1 or 2
LMForrest: Mata Atlantica, food +1 ? maybe rainforrest would be better?
LMSea: Caribean Sea, decrease defense bonus, movent cost +1
LMDesert: any suggestion for desert? sahara? maybe production decreased by 1 so that this terrain is of no use.

desert i'd say Atacama -1 of food

beta version of map released: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105032

what wonders do you like to see in the colonization scenario, or what must be in there.
like West Indian Company, Hudson Bay Company, Trade Triangle, ...

all native americ wonders like the mayan pyramids

Like I said before, map and scenario r awesome!!! I have some suggestions about the missing civis:
- Meso American one: could be Arawak, Carib or Toltec (I think they were conqured before 1500 by Aztecs, not sure)
- South America: Jês, the lords of Amazon... but Carib and Arawak could fit too, since they were in South America and Meso America
- North America: Haida (Vikings of Americans), Inuit (I think they were the Skimos, not sure) or Algoquians

BTW, I re-do 5 minteus ago my resources of coca, timber and copper to ACM, could be useful here.

One last tip: I think Portugal does not need be Spanish allied, its my opinion.


good luck man!

okay found i good title.
Colonize & Conquer ;D

Civs that will be in for sure:

Europe: Spain, Portugal, England, France, Netherlands, (Denmark)
N.America: Iroqouis, Cherokee, Sioux, Navaho
M.America: Aztec, Maya, (Arawak)
S.America: Inca, Chibcha, Tupi, Mapuche

so the overall count would be between 15 and 17 civs.

a good european wonder would be the Tordesilhas Treaty, or Alexandrian Meridien that divided the discovered lands between spain and portugal