Training game emphasizing trading - Emperor
- Thread starter trikos
- Start date
Pre-flight We are in great shape. Heres situation.
Greeks: 58 inf. many redliners, 6 guerillas, 15 frigates and 4 galleons.
Russians: 9 inf., 2 guerillas, 3 frigates and 1 galleon.
Spain looks similar to Greece with less boats but 4 ironclads.
Dutch have 37 rifles, 13 cav, 10 frigates and 5 galleons.
IBT Change the deal with William from incense, ivory, horses, coal and 14 gpt for spices to incense, ivory, iron, 2 gpt and a ROP. William gives us spcies back and 3g change. Squeeze em for all theyve got its good business. Spain takes Puson.
1655 Destroy all 7 redlined greek inf. and a guerilla, redline a random inf and we see no greeks in the field. We will walk on them with impunity. At Peragon we redline 2 inf , a guerilla and knock the pop to 6. We lose 1 elite cav but raze the city.
The Greeks have 48 inf.
Russia lose a vet cav to redline guerilla and take with 2nd.
IBT Greek guerilla backs off cav. Russian send out a reg inf. towards our mountain cav.
1660 Russia: Investigate Yeakterinburg. Reg inf and con rifle. Bomb to redline and raze the city without a scratch.
Greece: Investigate Hyangson vet and con inf w/ guerilla in 4. Bomb it to redline and pop to 5. Take the city.
IBT Greek guerilla attacks our mountain inf. and doesnt even scratch him.
1665 Greece: Investigate Wonsan 2 vet inf, 2 arty, 3 workers and a guerilla in 23. Bomb it down but not enough. At Pyongsong 2 vet inf, 3 arty (likely my 2 oil pillager artys) Go 2 for 3 with cav and the city gets razed.
Russia: Were moving to St. Petersburg.
IBT Greek guerilla flys out of Athens. Yeah so what.
1670 Russia: Explore St. Petersburgs 3 reg inf, 3 frigs and a transport. Guerilla wont see 14 turns. Pop is at 10. Bomb to redline but need to send newly formed arty unit from the mainland to accomplish it but need to kill that pesky reg inf. first on our rail line. Cav loses but guerilla does the job. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 pop 1st cav no scratches, 2nd takes only 1 hp, 3rd loses, elite finishes and we have a new leader Hanno.
Russia is finished. Theyll give peace a chance for all their 471g. I go against Comrade Bedes recommendation and decide to press on. If we eliminate the Russians tech costs go down and we are still ahead on techs with Spain just getting combustion. I tried to make a deal but Izzie has no gold.
Greece: Bomb Wonsan but theyve added a guerilla. Redline them all. 1st cav loses, 2nd no blood, 3rd loses, 4th goes elite and 5th takes the city.
On to Taejon they have 2 vet inf and a guerilla. 6 straight arty hits (give that man a promotion!) redlines all 3. 1st cav not touched, 2nd cav 2/4 and 3rd takes the city.
We get some naval activity outside Delphi where our destroyer redlines but sinks a Greek ironclad.
IBT Greek ironclad attacks healthy destroyer and ironclad is no match. A frigate also pops out of Mycanae.
1675 Can you believe we get deposed at Hyangsun? Take it back and 285g. We bombard Greek frigate with redlined destroyer and sink it with healthy one.
Greece: Investigate Athens 5 vet inf. 2 guerillas and another in 3. Bomb Athens but not enough. Everyone is even techs except Dutch.
IBT William I know we have a ROP for 14 more but dropping off 4 cav at Midways doorstep is not real cool.
1680 We have 62% of pop. Bomb Athens to redline and pop 11. 1st cav wins, 2nd wins, 3rd loses, 4th loses and Greek promotes, Army knocks out elite inf., 5th cav wins, 6th wins, 7th loses 8th wins and raze Athens and the Great Wonder ToA
IBT I guess no surprise William is a liar and a cheat. He has broken all our trade agreements and declares. Now heres a great example of the power of arty. He loses 2 and the other 2 redline and back off while our inf. goes elite. Midway is safe.
1685 We go into diorder so I fix it temporarily by cycling through. Dial up Izzie and give her furs for an MA. Cancel our MA with Izzie with the Greeks. We wont be needing her assistance there. On the happiness front our people are demanding luxs it will cost 130g to raise lux to 10%. We trade incense, ivory and 73gpt to Izzie for her spices. She needs some cash to fund our research.
Russia: Take Yaktusk without a loss and the world is a little smaller. This will be a great launching pad for the Dutch.
Steal plans from William. They have some cavs on the way. No major concern as we send some ships to the west coast.
IBT Lose 2 frigates to Greeks. The palace expands and we put in a gothic façade. We are at 64% pop.
1690 Is a quiet year as we only sink a Greek frigate and galleon.
IBT We lose a frigate after it goes elite on Greeks 2nd try.
1695 Pentagon finishes and I set Carthage to Univ. Sufferage a Hoovers placeholder. Dutch: Destroy 2 dutch frigates and take Leiden from them. Take a Dutch city on their continent and raze it (it was late night and dark at my house so ). We are marching onto Mycanae and Delphi. Place arty on the hill where we can hit both.
IBT Lose another Frigate. Good thing we dont make them anymore.
1700 Investigate both Greek cities. We redline both and knock off some population. Raze both cities without a loss and the Greeks are a defeated nation.
Corinth with all its Wonders will be taken soon. Maybe we keep it for our demanding population.
Summary: This baby is all but over. We are 68% of pop and 48% of land so we need to fill in some spaces. There are a lot of spaces on our new continent and Ive got settlers ready to go over the next few turns. That was a lot of fun and I want to thank you all for letting me join this game and a special thanks to Bede and Rik for their training. Ive learned a lot.
PS Sorry for not copying the 1685 trade but it was late.
Greeks: 58 inf. many redliners, 6 guerillas, 15 frigates and 4 galleons.
Russians: 9 inf., 2 guerillas, 3 frigates and 1 galleon.
Spain looks similar to Greece with less boats but 4 ironclads.
Dutch have 37 rifles, 13 cav, 10 frigates and 5 galleons.
IBT Change the deal with William from incense, ivory, horses, coal and 14 gpt for spices to incense, ivory, iron, 2 gpt and a ROP. William gives us spcies back and 3g change. Squeeze em for all theyve got its good business. Spain takes Puson.
1655 Destroy all 7 redlined greek inf. and a guerilla, redline a random inf and we see no greeks in the field. We will walk on them with impunity. At Peragon we redline 2 inf , a guerilla and knock the pop to 6. We lose 1 elite cav but raze the city.
The Greeks have 48 inf.
Russia lose a vet cav to redline guerilla and take with 2nd.
IBT Greek guerilla backs off cav. Russian send out a reg inf. towards our mountain cav.
1660 Russia: Investigate Yeakterinburg. Reg inf and con rifle. Bomb to redline and raze the city without a scratch.
Greece: Investigate Hyangson vet and con inf w/ guerilla in 4. Bomb it to redline and pop to 5. Take the city.
IBT Greek guerilla attacks our mountain inf. and doesnt even scratch him.
1665 Greece: Investigate Wonsan 2 vet inf, 2 arty, 3 workers and a guerilla in 23. Bomb it down but not enough. At Pyongsong 2 vet inf, 3 arty (likely my 2 oil pillager artys) Go 2 for 3 with cav and the city gets razed.
Russia: Were moving to St. Petersburg.
IBT Greek guerilla flys out of Athens. Yeah so what.
1670 Russia: Explore St. Petersburgs 3 reg inf, 3 frigs and a transport. Guerilla wont see 14 turns. Pop is at 10. Bomb to redline but need to send newly formed arty unit from the mainland to accomplish it but need to kill that pesky reg inf. first on our rail line. Cav loses but guerilla does the job. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 pop 1st cav no scratches, 2nd takes only 1 hp, 3rd loses, elite finishes and we have a new leader Hanno.
Russia is finished. Theyll give peace a chance for all their 471g. I go against Comrade Bedes recommendation and decide to press on. If we eliminate the Russians tech costs go down and we are still ahead on techs with Spain just getting combustion. I tried to make a deal but Izzie has no gold.
Greece: Bomb Wonsan but theyve added a guerilla. Redline them all. 1st cav loses, 2nd no blood, 3rd loses, 4th goes elite and 5th takes the city.
On to Taejon they have 2 vet inf and a guerilla. 6 straight arty hits (give that man a promotion!) redlines all 3. 1st cav not touched, 2nd cav 2/4 and 3rd takes the city.
We get some naval activity outside Delphi where our destroyer redlines but sinks a Greek ironclad.
IBT Greek ironclad attacks healthy destroyer and ironclad is no match. A frigate also pops out of Mycanae.
1675 Can you believe we get deposed at Hyangsun? Take it back and 285g. We bombard Greek frigate with redlined destroyer and sink it with healthy one.
Greece: Investigate Athens 5 vet inf. 2 guerillas and another in 3. Bomb Athens but not enough. Everyone is even techs except Dutch.
IBT William I know we have a ROP for 14 more but dropping off 4 cav at Midways doorstep is not real cool.
1680 We have 62% of pop. Bomb Athens to redline and pop 11. 1st cav wins, 2nd wins, 3rd loses, 4th loses and Greek promotes, Army knocks out elite inf., 5th cav wins, 6th wins, 7th loses 8th wins and raze Athens and the Great Wonder ToA
IBT I guess no surprise William is a liar and a cheat. He has broken all our trade agreements and declares. Now heres a great example of the power of arty. He loses 2 and the other 2 redline and back off while our inf. goes elite. Midway is safe.
1685 We go into diorder so I fix it temporarily by cycling through. Dial up Izzie and give her furs for an MA. Cancel our MA with Izzie with the Greeks. We wont be needing her assistance there. On the happiness front our people are demanding luxs it will cost 130g to raise lux to 10%. We trade incense, ivory and 73gpt to Izzie for her spices. She needs some cash to fund our research.
Russia: Take Yaktusk without a loss and the world is a little smaller. This will be a great launching pad for the Dutch.
Steal plans from William. They have some cavs on the way. No major concern as we send some ships to the west coast.
IBT Lose 2 frigates to Greeks. The palace expands and we put in a gothic façade. We are at 64% pop.
1690 Is a quiet year as we only sink a Greek frigate and galleon.
IBT We lose a frigate after it goes elite on Greeks 2nd try.
1695 Pentagon finishes and I set Carthage to Univ. Sufferage a Hoovers placeholder. Dutch: Destroy 2 dutch frigates and take Leiden from them. Take a Dutch city on their continent and raze it (it was late night and dark at my house so ). We are marching onto Mycanae and Delphi. Place arty on the hill where we can hit both.
IBT Lose another Frigate. Good thing we dont make them anymore.
1700 Investigate both Greek cities. We redline both and knock off some population. Raze both cities without a loss and the Greeks are a defeated nation.
Corinth with all its Wonders will be taken soon. Maybe we keep it for our demanding population.
Summary: This baby is all but over. We are 68% of pop and 48% of land so we need to fill in some spaces. There are a lot of spaces on our new continent and Ive got settlers ready to go over the next few turns. That was a lot of fun and I want to thank you all for letting me join this game and a special thanks to Bede and Rik for their training. Ive learned a lot.
PS Sorry for not copying the 1685 trade but it was late.
.
Not much trading-lessons today. I won't even bother checking the resigning of lux-trades out; the game is won.
plarq
Crazy forever
Well,I take it,but it is won already,isn't it?
plarq
Crazy forever
IBT: Spanish and Dutch exchange fire.Hamburg captured twice,Breda and Rotterdam threatened.Renegotiate with Spain,two lux cost Coal and Rubber and 105gpt.Who build Sulcis a destroyer?Navy in the lake! 
T1: Disband Destroyer in the lake for 20s in East Lake for Stock.Raze Pamplona.
T2: Find some barb camp.Raze Grolingen
T3: Capture Middelburg,build Carthage,Utica,Leptis Magna 2
T4: Captured Delphi with JSB(Not Oracle),Marching to Corinth.
T5: A Leader.
T6: Capture all Greek city in Greek Continent.
T7: Capture Amsterdam and Delft.
T8: Moving Troops.
T9: Build a bunch of new towns,nearly reach Carthage 3.
T10: Steal Mass Production from Spain.
Terra 58%
T1: Disband Destroyer in the lake for 20s in East Lake for Stock.Raze Pamplona.
T2: Find some barb camp.Raze Grolingen
T3: Capture Middelburg,build Carthage,Utica,Leptis Magna 2
T4: Captured Delphi with JSB(Not Oracle),Marching to Corinth.
T5: A Leader.
T6: Capture all Greek city in Greek Continent.
T7: Capture Amsterdam and Delft.
T8: Moving Troops.
T9: Build a bunch of new towns,nearly reach Carthage 3.
T10: Steal Mass Production from Spain.
Terra 58%
plarq
Crazy forever
Oh,my eyes!Bad eyesight strikes again!Last time I made a mistake in AG16-OCC Diety when I didn't notice that Istanbul is on the shore.I'll put up an eyesight examination table on the wall.I bought one today actually.Bede said:@plarq, look at the map and you will see that the lake has access to the sea.
peacemonger
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 71
I'd love to be the one to finish this off, but I'm still "cliented" -- dl, looks like you get your shot at one last turnset after all. One of these days I think I will download the save from just before Bede's last turn and see if I can replicate that successful warring....I think it could be very instructive to a war-avoiding type like myself. Maybe I should try one of those AW SGs at some point. Thanks to all for a fun experience with my first SG!!
I think dl's computer died. Bede you get to bring it home it seems.
Good SG'ing with you peacemonger. I appreciate you all letting me join in.
I agree seeing if you could start from before Bede's turn would help you a lot.
O/T I think "defiant" is also a interesting variant to play because you can't sign MA,MP pacts, give in to tributes, you must ask people to leave your territory and you must destroy any civ that razes a city. In my SG Tim01 we are probably going to lose because we had 2 early civs raze 2 of our cities. It's been ugly to say the least. We could probably use Bede to fix that one up too!!!
Good SG'ing with you peacemonger. I appreciate you all letting me join in.
I agree seeing if you could start from before Bede's turn would help you a lot.
O/T I think "defiant" is also a interesting variant to play because you can't sign MA,MP pacts, give in to tributes, you must ask people to leave your territory and you must destroy any civ that razes a city. In my SG Tim01 we are probably going to lose because we had 2 early civs raze 2 of our cities. It's been ugly to say the least. We could probably use Bede to fix that one up too!!!
Man alive...and they said I was crazy....
"Defiant" is probably the hardest variant you can play. Take a look at Bede02 fro an example. I twisted the governments, too, only Despotism, Feudalism and Fascism allowed and it was 500 turns of warfare with somebody. Still standing at the end, we were, fighting off tanks with cavalry and cannon....but the Chinese launched a spaceship while our Marines were looking for oil to steal.
How about a little summary of lessons learned from this experience from everybody?
Will finish the goose tonight.
"Defiant" is probably the hardest variant you can play. Take a look at Bede02 fro an example. I twisted the governments, too, only Despotism, Feudalism and Fascism allowed and it was 500 turns of warfare with somebody. Still standing at the end, we were, fighting off tanks with cavalry and cannon....but the Chinese launched a spaceship while our Marines were looking for oil to steal.
How about a little summary of lessons learned from this experience from everybody?
Will finish the goose tonight.
My stay here was short but simply reading through the thread was educational. There were a number of things that I always go " I never thought of it that way".
My .02...
The decision making process:
1. Can I afford it?
2. Do I need it?
3. Can it be traded profitably?
If only 1 of these 3 qualifies then it's a bad trade. If it's 2 of 3 it's acceptable and if it's 3 of 3 it's excellent.
--When structuring a trade: Start with the most expensive monopoly and work your way down to the next near monopoly and finish with the cheap techs at the end for the possibility of a 3 or 4 fer and a profitable trade.
--Do you need it right away or could it wait? Dead end techs are many times not useful.
[--Avoid early gpt.
--Most (non-strategic) embassies don't need to be built till after Map Making. Then use these embassies to see who knows who in trading. Techs are more expensive to a buyer that doesn't know the seller.
--Consider renegotiating peace for better terms.
--Irrigating corrupt cities to 6 pop and letting them become taxmen (and scientists in a normal game).
--Just reconfirming the power of arty as an offensive weapon. Seeing 4 Dutch cav promote our lone infantryman where they lose 2 and redline 2. Not very good return on AI investment. I hope in Civ4 the AI will effectively counter with arty assaults.
--Avoid Bede's dot maps. That orange spot was no powerhouse placement Mister! Although it was launching pad for eliminating Greece.
--Learn how to use ToE.
Most importantly I want to thank Bede and Rik. Your lessons learned were a great help to all involved (and lurkers as well). This is a great community here at CFC and you two contribute to that positive experience. You guys were fantasic! To everyone else thanks as well we can now chalk this one up it up as a "W"!
I never thought of it that way". My .02...
The decision making process:
1. Can I afford it?
2. Do I need it?
3. Can it be traded profitably?
If only 1 of these 3 qualifies then it's a bad trade. If it's 2 of 3 it's acceptable and if it's 3 of 3 it's excellent.
--When structuring a trade: Start with the most expensive monopoly and work your way down to the next near monopoly and finish with the cheap techs at the end for the possibility of a 3 or 4 fer and a profitable trade.
--Do you need it right away or could it wait? Dead end techs are many times not useful.
[--Avoid early gpt.
--Most (non-strategic) embassies don't need to be built till after Map Making. Then use these embassies to see who knows who in trading. Techs are more expensive to a buyer that doesn't know the seller.
--Consider renegotiating peace for better terms.
--Irrigating corrupt cities to 6 pop and letting them become taxmen (and scientists in a normal game).
--Just reconfirming the power of arty as an offensive weapon. Seeing 4 Dutch cav promote our lone infantryman where they lose 2 and redline 2. Not very good return on AI investment. I hope in Civ4 the AI will effectively counter with arty assaults.
--Avoid Bede's dot maps. That orange spot was no powerhouse placement Mister! Although it was launching pad for eliminating Greece.
--Learn how to use ToE.
Most importantly I want to thank Bede and Rik. Your lessons learned were a great help to all involved (and lurkers as well). This is a great community here at CFC and you two contribute to that positive experience. You guys were fantasic! To everyone else thanks as well we can now chalk this one up it up as a "W"!
I want to finish it but I melted some vital parts of my computer by letting the fan stop 
. The warrenty company and manufactor are giving me the run around and it looks like it will be ~1 week till I get it back.
Currently using a very outdated computer that I can't modify.
. The warrenty company and manufactor are giving me the run around and it looks like it will be ~1 week till I get it back.Currently using a very outdated computer that I can't modify.
We are named Hannibal the Magnificent in 1764 with a Domination victory.
Just a few comments:
Prosecuting the Dutch war didn't help a great deal. It pulled troops and resources away from the main objective of owning the second biggest piece of ground on the map. In the end it precipitated a war with Isabella after I took The Hague out from under her nose but lacked the horsepower to adequately defend the other towns on her home island. So taking the last of Greece was delayed by the need to defend against Izzy and retake the towns she had captured in Dutchland and Greekland.
Never did finish off the Greeks. I used a lot of naval scrap iron to rush temples in the coastal towns that had not expanded to cover the entire coast. I also converted some artillery to temples where more inland coverage was needed. We had way more artillery than needed at that point as the heaviest defense in Greek towns was two infantry or rifles (a ceremonial hoplite remains in the capitol) and one flak after they learned flight.
Good game, everybody. And many thanks to Rik, the Great Examinator.
The pre-victory dance is attached.
Lessons learned:
1) Use cash, but watch the pennies
2) When you fight a war with a close neighbor, finish it and them.
3) Don't try to fight an overseas war until you can adequately support your forces. Trying to hold a beachhead against a more powerful opponent requires more than a short handful of caravels and a couple of muskets....
4) Monopoly control of resources is even more important than technology.
Just a few comments:
Prosecuting the Dutch war didn't help a great deal. It pulled troops and resources away from the main objective of owning the second biggest piece of ground on the map. In the end it precipitated a war with Isabella after I took The Hague out from under her nose but lacked the horsepower to adequately defend the other towns on her home island. So taking the last of Greece was delayed by the need to defend against Izzy and retake the towns she had captured in Dutchland and Greekland.
Never did finish off the Greeks. I used a lot of naval scrap iron to rush temples in the coastal towns that had not expanded to cover the entire coast. I also converted some artillery to temples where more inland coverage was needed. We had way more artillery than needed at that point as the heaviest defense in Greek towns was two infantry or rifles (a ceremonial hoplite remains in the capitol) and one flak after they learned flight.
Good game, everybody. And many thanks to Rik, the Great Examinator.
The pre-victory dance is attached.
Lessons learned:
1) Use cash, but watch the pennies
2) When you fight a war with a close neighbor, finish it and them.
3) Don't try to fight an overseas war until you can adequately support your forces. Trying to hold a beachhead against a more powerful opponent requires more than a short handful of caravels and a couple of muskets....
4) Monopoly control of resources is even more important than technology.
plarq
Crazy forever
great wrap-up bede!Lessons seem critical in other "buying" game.
I hope my examinations were appreciated and that you have learned the points I tried to make and can use it in future games.
You all passed your exams !! - 
You all passed your exams !! -
plarq
Crazy forever
Thanks Rik,I suppose anyone who participate or lurk in this SG enough will learn enough to pass the exam.
oopsy poopsy
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2004
- Messages
- 202
i'm sorry i missed it too. i just back from out of town after two big business trips to find that you guys had finished the game. some of this looked like great turns. thanks to bede and rik and everybody else. sorry i couldn't finish it out with you guys but it looked like fun. i leaned a ton when i was playing and i've learned a lot just catching up reading the thread since. thanks again.
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